Elderly Care - Care Fees Annuity - Experience Anyone?

Most Care Homes accept that funds will run out (£24k excluding personal possessions). At this stage Social Services step in, and in effect set the fees, and then pay the difference between income and the fees. They will look at bank/saving accounts over the last year usually.  Effectively care home fees are set high in order to subsides those residents now paying the lower fees set by Social Services. Paying full fees for three years is usually acceptable.

Don’t enter into guarantee agreement as a third party to top up fees. 

Annuity companies will not tell you what normally happens and may encourage you to top up the investment to the level it pays the full fees with annual uplifts. Just let the money run down. There is seldom true market growth in annuity funds which seem to be there in many cases to take a management charge. Just my opinion though.

Unless dementia is advanced the person usually has capacity. It seems to me if she is sharpe she has capacity. Try to avoid activation of a power of attorney until an independent professional decides the matters. Once activated it is irrevocable. Consult a solicitor first.

I hope I have put you at easy a bit.

Phil

Graeme

Is she a home owner.

Thanks Phil, that’s useful insight & yes FATCAT, she is.

G

Its a bit of a daunting minefield to start with,  after that is just plain frustrating dealing with the bureaucracy.   Phil has it pretty well summarised, so I won't go over the same ground.

When my mother started with the first signs of dementia,  my 3 (half) brothers & I persuaded her to sign over power of attorney - important - & then to place a chunk of her savings in trust,  e.g. her war windows pension for my father was in trust to me as sole beneficiary.  Fortunately we had already 'purchased' her house many years ago so the sale of that did not get into the assessment.    We sorted her savings issue a while before a care home was needed,  but some had to be declared as it was not all done more than a year before the care home assessment.   Her first home required us to pay for about 60% of the residential fee's.   As her illness developed the care home had to be changed to a full nursing care & at that point all her fee's were paid for in full by the local authority, less her state pension.     I have to say in my experience the care home's we experienced were excellent in the way they looked after Mum,  it was very obvious they were constrained & as frustrated with the bureaucracy as we were,  times tenfold.     

I think the contribution rules differ between England and Scotland as social policy is devolved, so worth checking on what applies where.  If there is still a partner, family member living at her home, there might be a 'dis-regard' on the value of the property to think about. The local authority should have guidance on all this on its website.  

Cheers folks. She is alone...It looks like both her savings and house will be used as sources of funding then. 

Needless to say, this annoys her!

G

Is she in Scotland?

Sorry - This is turning into ‘Animal, vegetable or mineral?’ ...Yes, she’s in Scotland.

Thanks again,

G

Speak to the finance department of her local council, they’ll go through the options based on her personal circumstances.  When my dad went into a care home, his local council were more than helpful, they where first rate, they arranged everything. We just signed a document agreeing to pay all his income (pensions and rent he received for letting his house) to the care home. They paid the difference between care cost and income, direct to the care home, on the agreement it would be paid back to them on the sale of his house, after his death.

At the end of the day, the amount owed to the council P.A. was a lot less than we expected. (although some of the care cost was classed as medical care, and therefore funded by the NHS).

Thanks FATCAT.

G

Graeme, I’d agree with Fatcat. I’ve worked closely with adults’ services finance people over the years, and they are the people to talk to. Fatcat is referring to the deferred payments scheme, where fees are deducted from the sale of the house, whenever that should occur. I certainly wouldn’t go near a Bupa scheme. It’s a really difficult time for both you and your mum, but the Council should definitely be your first port of call. Unlike Bupa, they have nothing to gain, and you will get objective guidance. I wish you all the very best. 

Wot fatcat said but costs of care deductions can be different in Scotland so not up to speed on those...

Thanks HH & Jamie. Popping over to see my aunt today so all this is super helpful, thanks.

G

fatcat posted:

We just signed a document agreeing to pay all his income (pensions and rent he received for letting his house) to the care home.

Correction to the above.

He was allowed to keep a small amount of his income per week as spending money.

fatcat posted:

fatcat posted:

We just signed a document agreeing to pay all his income (pensions and rent he received for letting his house) to the care home.

Correction to the above.

He was allowed to keep a small amount of his income per week as spending money.

 

I think that's a legislative requirement, not a concession on the part of the local authority

MDS posted:

fatcat posted:

Correction to the above.

He was allowed to keep a small amount of his income per week as spending money. 

I think that's a legislative requirement, not a concession on the part of the local authority

We (Mum) were allowed £25pw & it seems that was a fixed stnd across the local authority & maybe nationwide.  

Well that was a grim visit. Great staff but a horrible environment - Wipe-clean high-back chairs round the four walls of the room and a garish subtitled TV. It’s all we could get at short notice over the holiday.

She’s depressed, very frail and not eating. Just wants to go she said - sleep away.

Gives one a bit of perspective this sort of thing.

G

GraemeH posted:

Well that was a grim visit. Great staff but a horrible environment - Wipe-clean high-back chairs round the four walls of the room and a garish subtitled TV. It’s all we could get at short notice over the holiday.

She’s depressed, very frail and not eating. Just wants to go she said - sleep away.

Gives one a bit of perspective this sort of thing.

G

Down to the staff having to deal with incontinence and deafness among the residents, I suspect.  It must be a horrible prospect for potential residents if you still have your marbles and have always valued your independence.  There's something to be said for passing in your sleep.  I think I'd prefer to go that way.

At least your Aunt has your support in this, Graeme. Some are alone have to wholly rely on over-stretched social services.  

GraemeH posted:

Well that was a grim visit. Great staff but a horrible environment - Wipe-clean high-back chairs round the four walls of the room and a garish subtitled TV. It’s all we could get at short notice over the holiday.

She’s depressed, very frail and not eating. Just wants to go she said - sleep away.

Gives one a bit of perspective this sort of thing.

G

I’m sorry you’ve gone through such a grim experience G. Don’t give up though, my wife works for a housing association which provides elderly places too and some of them are first rate. I’m sure there will be something better if you can keep looking.

Cheers gents.

G