unitiqute questions

1.  I have not tried this.  Your router is not a server, so you'll need Asset to see that drive.  I don't know if Asset (or the server it's running on) will see it or not; it's worth a try!

2.  "Audiophile" ethernet cables have been discussed here (and I did a search) exactly 8,341 times.  Do a search and enjoy some of the discussions!

Happy New Year!

if you have a nas hooked up to your router is upnp needed? wouldn't the unitiqute recognise it? the harddisk being hooked to the router is similar to nas and an alternative idea.

The streamer will only play what it is told to play by the server. Without upnp server software such as Asset on a nas, it will not work. A hard drive connected directly to a router will not work, as there is no server software on the drive. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

The streamer will only play what it is told to play by the server. Without upnp server software such as Asset on a nas, it will not work. A hard drive connected directly to a router will not work, as there is no server software on the drive. 

In other words, there is no OS on the attached drive for the server software to run on.  You need a NAS, or a computer, either of which runs the UPnP server software, which can serve files on their own drives, and, sometimes, other attached drives on your network (computer probably yes; NAS I think may only serve its own files.)

Nick

I think it confuses newcomers that there is just enough “server” capability in the Qute et al to handle files on a directly-attached USB drive, but not the power the HDX, Uniti Serve, and Core have, to serve AND PLAY files from remote drives.

I wonder why a basic UPnP server app is not included on most streamers.  Isolation and ultimate performance, presumably; plus flexibility to allow choice of third party software, and improvements others develop over time?  Other reasons?

Nick

ok so even a nas needs upnp then. so is there any real difference between a nas serving thru upnp and a laptop doing the same? so why is nas considered a better option for sq? also cant u hook a nas directly to the unitiqute on its ethernet port than thru a router?

appreciate the insights.

NickSeattle posted:

I wonder why a basic UPnP server app is not included on most streamers.  

That'd be an HDX

vtpcnk posted:

ok so even a nas needs upnp then. so is there any real difference between a nas serving thru upnp and a laptop doing the same? so why is nas considered a better option for sq? also cant u hook a nas directly to the unitiqute on its ethernet port than thru a router?

appreciate the insights.

A NAS is a Network-attached Storage device — lightweight server.  It is like a computer, but is stripped down to basic functions, and optimized to be shared by many computers and other devices on your network.  It is typically left on 24/7, and typically consumes less power than a PC left on in similar fashion.

A dedicated computer could be used in the same way as a NAS, if you want to keep things simple.  On the other hand, getting music storage and serving off your computer frees it up for other purposes.

Nick

thanks bart and nick for that input.

but please note that certain routers and even external hard drives have built in upnp capability. so there is a possibility of the unitiqute being able to access a external hard drive hooked to a router?

and any views on whether a nas can be directly hooked to the uniqute instead of thru a router?

vtpcnk posted: 

and any views on whether a nas can be directly hooked to the uniqute instead of thru a router?

If you are bent on trying every possibility, I would be interested in your findings.  It is a wrong road, IMHO.  Step 1 is usually to connect the Qute to the router by wire, to get iRadio working, and maybe Tidal or Spotify services.  Step 2 is add UPnP to the network somehow, for best results.

Nick

Step 3 is put a few favorite songs on a USB thumb drive using lossless WAV and compare to all other sources as a benchmark.  You should expect your networked lossless files to sound as good, after you have worked out the almost unavoidable problems in any network setup, if they exist in yours, which they may not, if you are lucky, and clever enough with details, as I suspect you are.

Nick

thanks for the input nick.

my point is only that it seems to be best if the unitiqute gets the files in as short a route as possible.

so instead of getting the file from a computer (external hard drive) or the router (nas), if it got the file directly (from a nas hooked to it) without having the need to go to the router it seems the best proposition.

yea i do plan on exhausting the possibilities to ensure that i get the best sq possible from the unit.

i am also preparing for a situation where i might not have access to the internet - i plan to rip my entire flac library to 320 kpbs mp3 and store it on a thumb drive to use on the usb port.

appreciate the insights.

Fair enough.  If I were doing without Internet services, I think I would use a router anyway. It bosses a network well, even if you do not connect to a WAN.

Nick

vtpcnk posted:

certain routers and even external hard drives have built in upnp capability. so there is a possibility of the unitiqute being able to access a external hard drive hooked to a router?

and any views on whether a nas can be directly hooked to the uniqute instead of thru a router?

The Asus routers that I’ve tried offer USB storage and also UPnP services; so does my ISP provided router, a Sagemcom. I tried putting a USB stick with some music files on them, and after enabling the UPnP server, these show up in the top level menu hierarchy in the Naim app and work fine - ie you can choose and play music via your phone / Qute combination just as with your laptop or NAS or whatever. I have no thoughts on sound quality, but the metadata choices for sorting were basic but adequate iirc. It’s the same if, for example, you have two NAS servers running, or even two UPnP servers running on one NAS: the top level in the hierarchy is the server name (usually obviously related to the NAS name).

As to connecting a NAS directly, I’m not sure you’d want to do this via Ethernet (if auto detect and crossover even works), as you’d have no network that could include your wifi controller... but you can certainly go with two manually assigned IP addresses on the same subnet and give it a go with a single cable and the remote. Be careful that you know what you’re doing and can reverse this when you decide it’s too inconvenient!

OTOH, if you mean connection via the USB, then that won’t work except for memory keys and (some, possibly size-limited external drives) which are treated as “passive” stores, not UPnP sources. The main limitation here is that you only get to browse via the folder hierarchy and the metadata handling is nowhere near as slick as with any decent UPnP server. 

Hope this helps. Have fun in 2018!

Regards alan

alan, thanks for the input. i am a techie but unfortunately not with expertise in router, switches and ports. so i doubt if i will try manual ports on subnets etc. thanks again for the ideas though.

btw i have another network related question. i plan to extend my music to my bedroom as well. i am quite impressed with the unitiqute and quite likely will buy another one in the near future for my bedroom.

so question is : how will i connect my bedroom unitiqute to my living room setup?

my emphasis is SQ and would prefer a wired connection. I have heard that a wifi extender can be used for this purpose.

so if i do use a wifi extender in the bedroom and hook up my bedroom unitiqute to this extender, can i also hook up a nas to the extender so that i can have a fully wired setup in the bedroom as well?

Will there be a conflict with the harddrive from the living room as it is on the same network? or rather can there be two upnps running on the same network?

also is internet itself needed at all? afterall if the computer with the harddrive or the nas is hardwired to the router and the router is hardwired to the unitiqute. so cant the router allow communication between the units involved?

appreciate the insights.

The best way to connect a second room unitiqute is to run ethernet cable from the unit to your router.  Bar none, this is absolutely the best solution.  I have an NDS in one room and a UnitiQute2 in another, and a loooong stretch of cat-5 cable.

As Barr says, wired is robust and, especially for the UQ, most reliable. But if it is impractical or you just want to start and deal with pulling cable later if necessary, then you have some options. You should consider a wireless bridge (similar idea to an extender) to “replace” the not-yet-installed wired “leg” of the network that connects to your bedroom. You can do this with your existing wifi signal and something like an Apple Airport Express (which you connect to your wifi signal, but don’t “repeat” the wireless - which cuts speed you n half - just plug in your wired device and you’re done). There are other things to try if that doesn’t perform well enough, but give it a go first. 

This outperforms using the UQ internal wifi module which, respectfully, isn’t its best feature; but you can easily start there just to see for yourself!

Done thiway, either as a native wifi device or swapping in the Airport Express and going with a short local wire from it to the Qute, your 2nd UQ would just be “on the network” in your house, topologically identical to the (wired) one in the living room, with IP given by the DNS in your existing router, and able to see all your existing stuff, including your NAS and so on. So no need for a second NAS (which is almost certainly capable of providing two simultaneous UPnP streams to your two devices).

You certainly don’t need an Internet connection to stream local music only: a simple stand alone  network built off a router, its (built in) switch, a UQ and NAS works fine... but then you left she internet radio, external streaming services like Tidal, and so on. No biggie, just a different trade. 

I would go with the wireless bridge first and see how you get on, though... it’s easy and it’s what many are already doing to such good effect that drilling holes and fishing wire has just never happened...  

Have fun  

Regards alan

Whilst these little routers *could* perform such duties they are usually way underpowered and already have enough on with routing etc.

Back in the day I had an asus router, good one too, and tried a usb drive connected but it was slow and I swear also the internet and general lan duties was slow too, its like it had to think a bit harder on everything, so that experiment soon stopped.

garyi posted:

Whilst these little routers *could* perform such duties they are usually way underpowered and already have enough on with routing etc.

Back in the day I had an asus router, good one too, and tried a usb drive connected but it was slow and I swear also the internet and general lan duties was slow too, its like it had to think a bit harder on everything, so that experiment soon stopped.

Good point - there is a big difference between "can" a device do something and "will I get reasonable/workable/reliable/good results" with said device.  Given the cost of Naim hardware generally, spending $200 on a nas that will run a "proper" UPnP server package is the RIGHT choice vs. relying on one's home router.  AKA don't fuel your Porsche with petrol you found in a can in an old barn that hasn't been touched in 20 years.

btw there is one thing i am forgetting. in my apartment in the bedroom there is a network outlet from which the internet can be accessed as well. so an an apple express or an extender (capable of being wired) hooked to this outlet should give me a wired connection?

vtpcnk posted:

btw there is one thing i am forgetting. in my apartment in the bedroom there is a network outlet from which the internet can be accessed as well. so an an apple express or an extender (capable of being wired) hooked to this outlet should give me a wired connection?

I’m not really understanding you here, since you describe a wired connection and then talk about adding potential wireless access points to give a wired connection... which it seems is what you already have built into your wall outlet. 

You could try plugging the bedroom unitiqute into this outlet and then do a couple of tests. Use the IR remote and see if you get iRadio - shows external connection to internet. Use your existing phone with the Naim app, which can see your existing living room UQ and NAS slice your existing wifi access is on the same network as these guys, see if the bedroom UQ is also visible - if so, yer good and you could add a switch to the outlet then connect both the UQ and a (second, local) wifi access point to improve wireless connectivity if you’re not happy with existing coverage for some reason. 

Sorry if this is muddy, but I’m guessing at what you’re asking and what your underlying intentions might be. 

TL;DR: wire the UQ to the outlet and enjoy your second system. 

Regards, alan

Some routers, including a couple I have owned, do have UPNP software built in but in my experience it's not anywhere near as good as asset running on a stand alone unit. It may do for a stop gap measure though. Ethernet cables are just about the.only cable I haven't been able to hear a difference in, although it wired was clearly better than wifi