16 bit vs 24 bit

djh1697 posted:

I find that using LMS from my PC is quicker than my 10 year old ReadyNAS duo, or my Simpleaudio roomplayers, however, I find it hard to hear any audible differences. However, I can hear the difference with HD audio, if you hear no difference with 16/44 and 24/192 then just use 16/44. The Simpleaudio roomplayers have being upgraded with LMS, they are now a wonderful device! https://www.facebook.com/SAroomplayer/?ref=bookmarks 

sure i hear difference between 16/44 to hd 24

Ardbeg10y posted:

meni48 posted:

It is very difficult to hear the differences

 

Its quite easy to read your phrase.

it is difficult to hear differences with less resolved system or poor noisy nas as the pc.  I have not as the op 500 series amps but only 300dr, but on most hd i hear a little difference with my nds/555dr/ unitserve / linear ps combo.

Those with a bigger resolving system and nds/ melco combo much hear still a little bigger differences, but not for all high rez.....

But i agree, these differences are not night and day.

French Rooster posted:

it is difficult to hear differences

I've found hearing differences is a moving target over system brands & equipment & familiarity (the old Mk-II audio receptor to OS HI link)     From my NAS I hear differences between bitrates, its harder to hear the changes in sample rates & the same between codec format but there is a difference.  I get different results with other systems,  on a Linn KDS I hear the bitrate difference, but I I don't hear much if any difference with sample rate, whereas the Linn owner can hear a change.     Bottom line for me is there are too many variables - use your ears on your own system.

 What ever i tried to do i still see my files 2116 bitrate  instead of 1411 and my hd files are correct because on river settings i marked it pcm 24 bit, on the other hand if i changed it to pcm 16bit i will get correct 16 bit 1411 but i will loose the hd size bitrate, so is there any option to have both of them without canceling transcoding because most of my files are not wav, right now  i`m frustrated  not solving this issue, any help  guys.

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Hi, 2116.8 looks like 44.1x24x2...so it looks like you have 24 bit files at 44.1kHz sample rate... indeed I have a few downloads with those parameters but relatively unusual.

Now if your Jriver is either interpolating or simply adding 8 bits of zero lsb to each sample, this is not really HD.. and will be at best neutral gain for more data or at worst adding digital distortion to the original.

So switch the forced 24 bit off and play the files naturally unprocessed at 16 bit ... unless your DAC is mediocre it should sound better unprocessed at 16 bit anyway... as in some ways you are inhibiting your DAC at making the most of 16 bit.

Actually quite a lot of ‘current’ HD downloads are at 44.1 kHZ / 24 bit - still qualifies for HD, because of the bit depth (supposedly )

To the OP - just get a new server software - try Minimserve - it should send all the files in their native format and transcode FLAC to WAV if necessary.

If you want to select the spdif out put from your PC always go for the highest rates. If you are using your Network to read the files then the NDS/NDX will read and play whatever the file format is

Adam Zielinski posted:

Actually quite a lot of ‘current’ HD downloads are at 44.1 kHZ / 24 bit - still qualifies for HD, because of the bit depth (supposedly )

To the OP - just get a new server software - try Minimserve - it should send all the files in their native format and transcode FLAC to WAV if necessary.

Asset also gives you native format and I used it always before ,but now l prefer Jriver for better sound experience.

meni48 posted:

Asset also gives you native format and I used it always before ,but now l prefer Jriver for better sound experience.

Well... that seems like a contradiction in terms given this thread.... 

Adam Zielinski posted:

meni48 posted:

Asset also gives you native format and I used it always before ,but now l prefer Jriver for better sound experience.

Well... that seems like a contradiction in terms given this thread.... 

I ran up against the same on this thread yesterday Adam ........ the OP believes a PC & JRiver are best for SQ,  all the rest of us must be wrong ...........

Mike-B posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

meni48 posted:

Asset also gives you native format and I used it always before ,but now l prefer Jriver for better sound experience.

Well... that seems like a contradiction in terms given this thread.... 

I ran up against the same on this thread yesterday Adam ........ the OP believes a PC & JRiver are best for SQ,  all the rest of us must be wrong ...........

I  agree, but how did you set your Jriver pcm 24 bit or pcm 16 bit?

[@mention:1566878603966419]: let me give you a piece of advice before you allienate the eniter community.

You came asking for help, with very little info shared to start with.
A lot of experienced users asked you questions - barely any answer from you.
And you keep on asking the same quesitons, without apparently concluding that this is clearly not the way forward. In case you have not noticed there is barely anyone left bothering to help you on this thread.

This is a Naim Forum and it’s not ruled by the ‘10 Man Rule’ but by collective wisdom.
You don’t have to be the 10th man and doubt everything that is being said here.

Adam

meni48 posted:

 

Asset also gives you native format and I used it always before ,but now l prefer Jriver for better sound experience.

Well... that seems like a contradiction in terms given this thread.... 

I ran up against the same on this thread yesterday Adam ........ the OP believes a PC & JRiver are best for SQ,  all the rest of us must be wrong ...........

I  agree, but how did you set your Jriver pcm 24 bit or pcm 16 bit?

What makes you think I have JRiver,  no way,   if it was that good it would be universally adopted by many on this forum.   It isn't popular for a reason.  As I & others have suggested,  Asset or Minimserver is your solution.  

This reminds me so much of the early CD days when we had debates about AAD, ADD and DDD.  The conclusion was that there were good and not so good recordings (and mastering). You could hear the difference but the initial technology used could be state of the art and sadly not optimised. In the end the performance always won, with even a good performance well recorded in mono was much more enjoyable than an audiophile test disc (as opposed to discs audiophiles and musicians use to test).

meni48 posted:

I`m streaming my music through Jriver software into my NDS and i really don`t know what is the best option to stream my music, is it 16 bit or 24 bit? my collection music comes from all kinds formats 16 and Hd pcm24 and some dsd,in the Jriver settings i can choose only one choice,what is the best possibility to stay?

I've set JRiver to transcode everything to 24 bit WAV. I think 1 bit source files just have some 0's added.

garyi posted:

jRiver allows you to play bit perfect so I am not sure where you are going wrong. 

 

In dsp studio have output set to none and in output options select what ever device is your output device give it exclusive control and in the options have bitdepth set to auto. This should all be default anyhow.

If you want to stream WAV you need to set JRiver to either 16 bit or 24 bit.

Guys, it does depend how the 16 bits are being converted to 24 bit... if it’s a case of zero bit values being added to the lsb, then there is no benefit at all unless your DAC is somehow deficient it shouldn’t modify the sound. If the samples are interpolated up to 24 bits then this is usually not a good thing as digital noise/distortion will inevitably be added to the signal. Ideally you should stream the files as they are whether they be 16 or 24 bit and let your DAC/DSP do its stuff, especially on a quality DAC.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Guys, it does depend how the 16 bits are being converted to 24 bit... if it’s a case of zero bit values being added to the lsb, then there is no benefit at all unless your DAC is somehow deficient it shouldn’t modify the sound. If the samples are interpolated up to 24 bits then this is usually not a good thing as digital noise/distortion will inevitably be added to the signal. Ideally you should stream the files as they are whether they be 16 or 24 bit and let your DAC/DSP do its stuff, especially on a quality DAC.

Right Simon you cannot get both correct,if you set24 bit you get  16 over 1411bitrate and if you set16 bit you get hd less bitrate

Yes and if you simply send  a 16 bit file padded to 24 bits with zeros there is no benefit and certainly it is certainly not HD.... it’s an inefficient 16 bit file so has best of no worlds.

Agree,I’m back to my old Asset server,although I think that Jriver sound better

Ok, but if you prefer the way something sounds, irrespective of the details of what it is doing then do it that way. If you prefer Jriver and the padded out files then you should use it... it’s all about what sounds best to you.....

Take for instance the Blue Note catalogue the early RVG U.S releases are some of the best recorded and then reproduced music I have heard surely if someone takes these recordings and ads something to them so that a computer reads them at HD 24 bit or whatever then you are getting an inferior product.

Of course something recorded in HD 24 bit, Dsd or whatever this is clearly a different matter but taking an analogue recording and then converting it to a digital 16 bit file for CD back in the 80's or 90's and then converting it again into 24 bit can never be seen as an optimal thing.

Before I had my Core,I used my laptop with an attached hard drive as my source,or NAS.I used J-River software,but did not try to convert the files I had to WAV if they were FLAC.The settings,I can’t remember now,but i think it was “native” I used,if the file was 16 bit,that’s what I played,etc...to me it sounded really good,and I preferred not messing with the original file.I had 44,88,96,192 files,they all sounded good,and I saw,or heard no reason to upsample,or convert on the fly...just like ROB WATTS,recommends,let the DAC do the work.By the way,I used a Hugo 1 for a couple of years in the chain,and the lights on it always corresponded with what signal,or bit rate I fed it.