Mains radial cable recommendations

Thanks Mr H and will do re: standby items. I have one double socket on my radial. I tried the separate lead route with amp/dac (with overflow items going into house ring sockets) but remember little difference. I'll try it again with a more critical ear.

Yes Frost, nail on head - they're under 10 years old and do seem to have been very good from the beginning. If the radial sounded same-ish to house ring I'd give up, too. It's the substantial negative difference that niggles and drives me on.

What does your system comprise of Eagle? 

When i first self installed the spur (20 years ago),it did not provide the gains i expected, so i rang naim for advice. It was through that contact that led me to amend the earthing arrangement- bingo. I imagine that wiring/earthing regulations have been amended over the years such that one cannot isolate a socket from the main circuit (in earthing terms). It would be good to know exactly how your radial circuit is wired albeit 'correctly' by a qualified electrician. Russ Andrews used to supply a 'dedicated circuit wiring guide' which was very useful and if you could contact him directly,may be able/willing to offer advice.

I am currently engaged in enhancing my streaming capabilities into my naim kit, and yet again, isolating those bits of equipment from mains borne 'crud' appears to be crucial.

Frost - it's typical - split tails with Henleys - feed into separate CSU - single radial out to double un-switched socket. Earth radial CSU in same earth block as house CSU, then single earth cable into main earth point which is inside 100amp fuse box. (Can't earth directly inside this box as it's tamper proof.) We also tried earthing the radial  independently of the house earth with a spike which my sparks said was perfectly ok. Reverted to ring earth because of insufficient effect and I was afraid of consequences if the ground dried out.

It's in my profile Fink

Ok. Got it Eagle. Impressive gear. No Naim?  

Hmm - I was hoping to keep that vaguely under the radar! I was very Naim for several years until October last year. Sometimes miss the overtly thrilling ride, but just decided on a different way. The Forum has always been a great place to solve problems and contribute anything that might be useful to others. e.g. now recommend don't get ears syringed but, instead, 'hoovered'. They don't tell you it's available.. It's got to be better than the Karcher pressure wash I received last year that's screwed my balance and set off tinnitus!

All sounds reasonable, but just to be clear - was the separate earth spike utilised without the house earth connection?

Yes, for sure. I don't have a deathwish!

Haha. Hopefully you can get this issue sorted.

Off topic again but I had my ear syringed as a very young boy and that gave me tinnitus that has never left me. I’ll have to ask about vacumming! 

..when the hifi radial went on the spike it was off the PME; the rest of the house stayed on the PME..

Jeez I hope so, Fink. Doing my OCD head in. I'm putting myself in David's hands (MCRU) 

Aargh - really?! Bad luck. My doc totally went on the defensive when I reported the problems 2 days after jet washing, saying the nurse had never had any complaints before etc.. I never knew hoovering existed until last Nov when I saw a consultant. He told me they'd be perfectly happy to hoover rather than squirt.. 

Ok, Back to giving up again! I am as  intrigued as you that the radial circuit doesn't sound as least as good as house ring....

It goes against everything written - except what Blackmorec has written about some cable never sounding broken in; except others extol the virtues of Prysmian so 'go figure' as they say.. I'm likely going to put in a 4m run of something audiophile and see what happens. After trying a Memera MCB.

I am no expert here but I saw mention of a hydra. Now if you were using the same hydra pre dedicated radial installation as that used post then my suggestion may not be valid.

I changed from the Grahams Hydra to a modest Wireworld Matrix II block (£125) fed from the wall by a Powerline. This gave a significant improvement. There are of course better mains blocks out there.

As I say if the Hydra was not an issue pre dedicated radial then this could be a red herring.

Thanks for the thought, Nigel. The issue is that the sound (whether through hydra or kettle lead) on house mains socket is 'nice' whilst sound on dedicated radial is not 'nice'. One socket sits above the other so it's easy to compare. It has to be something to do with the radial itself. I've ordered Memera mcb and rcd and am going to change out the wire for something audiophile. Then I'll throw lots of burn-in at it and see where we're at. After that, if no radical change, I will draw a line. Begrudgingly. 

How annoying. Hope you get it sorted, Eagle.

Please update this thread if you get to the bottom of it as I and would suggest others are considering a dedicated mains installation.

Eagle, just a thought. Are both plug sockets, the one on the house ring main and dedicated supply, both the same type and brand? I've noticed quite a sonic difference between different types. I originally used a switched MK socket on my dedicated supply, which sounded very sweet and balanced. When I changed these for MK unswithced sockets the bass got slightly deeper but the sound became a little uncomfortable and slightly ragged by comparison - almost the opposite of what you'd expect.

When comparing both MK sockets they had a completely different construction materials, mouldings and architecture, which must account for the difference in sound? Also worth mentioning that a lot of MK and Crabtree were originally made in the U.K. but now seems to be made abroad with a possible loss in quality and perhaps SQ?

Geko, that's a very good thought, thank you. I'm using a new MK switchless per general recommends. My (sweet-sounding) house main has a new MK switched socket. Perhaps I'll try another MK switched on the radial just before we change out the cable next week. The effects you describe could apply to my radial if by ragged and uncomfortable you mean a bit harsher and compressed with less warmth and air. 

Geko posted:

When comparing both MK sockets they had a completely different construction materials, mouldings and architecture, which must account for the difference in sound? Also worth mentioning that a lot of MK and Crabtree were originally made in the U.K. but now seems to be made abroad with a possible loss in quality and perhaps SQ?

You need to be more specific than just 'MK',  there are numbers of different MK model/styles & they do not have the same internals.    I use the MK 'Logic Plus' range throughout my home,   apart from the parts for the switch the Logic Plus switched & unswitched internals are the same.   MK have factories in Southend & St Asaph.

Crabtree is now only the brand name, it was sold off a number of years ago.  They are now an Indian/South African company making for those markets were the square pin 13a UK stnd is used to some extent.       

Interesting. And yes, by ragged I meant harsher. On the switched MK everything seemed silky smooth and in perfect proportion, nothing exaggerated or over-blown. Changing to the switched MK and it all got a bit harsh and uncomfortable to listen to with the loss of ultimate musicality.

On the switched MK I noticed the earth is centrally placed and the conductors appeared to be copper but on the unswithched MK there are two earths that are off-set and the conductors look like a polished silver metal, certainly not copper.

Just a small possibility that it could be this? This Hi-Fi thing is a funny old malarkey!

These are all the Logic Plus MK model plug sockets with the slightly angled face.

I recently tried to buy a UK made MK Logic switched socket and I couldn't find a single one despite visiting about 10 different supplier.

Geko posted:

On the switched MK I noticed the earth is centrally placed and the conductors appeared to be copper but on the unswithched MK there are two earths that are off-set and the conductors look like a polished silver metal, certainly not copper. 

The copper earth strap was changed a while ago,  the change to zinc plated steel was to overcome a dissimilar metals corrosion problem from the alkalinity of building cement & plaster.   Making the earth strap from the same metal as metal back boxes is intended to reduce that problem.  

I haven’t seen a UK made MK socket for quite a few years now. Those I’ve seen in the last 3 years have all been made in Malaysia, and not particularly sturdy compared to Ye Olde English sockets. The last time I bought 4 unswitched Logic sockets, I had to return 2 of them as they were defective.