network streaming tweaks

Obsydian posted:

NO QUARTER - Sorry my dual logic of rank improvement and order/sequence of change.

The old Cisco i did 1st in order, but ranked it as #05 out of #08.

Anyway it is the Cisco - WS-C2960-8TC 8-Port

 

Anyway best to keep and open mind and try what you think makes sense.

Oh I see,so you are saying adding the power supply to the bridge is #1 improvement then,correct?Is GAZZA right,the new 2960 is 1400 pounds?woah!

On Amazon, May be cheaper elsewhere?

No quarter posted:

Mike-B posted:

The idea is to route the important connection between streamer & NAS through the switch,  the router connection is less important.   Having the NAS traffic go via router & then via switch makes no sense.

Now I am confused...I was thinking that I need a switch to isolate my gear from the router.

Sorry if I confused you,  all I'm saying is to route the NAS-Streamer path through the switch ,  or the broadband router,  not both.   

No quarter posted:

Obsydian posted:

NO QUARTER - Sorry my dual logic of rank improvement and order/sequence of change.

The old Cisco i did 1st in order, but ranked it as #05 out of #08.

Anyway it is the Cisco - WS-C2960-8TC 8-Port

 

Anyway best to keep and open mind and try what you think makes sense.

Oh I see,so you are saying adding the power supply to the bridge is #1 improvement then,correct?Is GAZZA right,the new 2960 is 1400 pounds?woah!

Yes sorry i was trying to answer both dimensions of how i would rank the change and then the order of the change. Plus to add the cost.

So in this case i did the used Cisco 2960 1st (ranked it 5th in terms of improvement) and the new Cisco 2960 3rd (ranked it 4th improvement wise). Yes a new 2960 is expensive i got a bargain but still expensive, reminds me still need to shift my old 2960.

there is something interesting i discovered today. you do not need internet to stream when the streamer is hardwired to the router. you just need the router to route the network traffic. so for my bedroom setup i can simply setup a dummy router which is not connected to the internet and hook up the router to a NAS and the streamer and get it going. no need for a wifi extender etc.

Aside from the Cisco, the Netgear GS105/108 or FS105/108 (10/100 only) are highly recommended. For my audio traffic (microRendu, NUC, and office UQ) I use an FS105 ($10 on the bay) with a cheap Chinese LPS and the John Swenson ground shunt (google exactly that) which is really easy and safe to do and makes a difference. The Netgear’s are magnetically linked through ports 1,3,5, and the ground shunt bleeds off a lot of high impedance hash. I also changed my initial ethernet cabling route to make it more direct from the modem to main switch (Trendnet fanless 24 port) and Tidal sounds a bit better. The cheap cable I had in place had a bit of a kink in it - works fine for the laser printer now but might have degraded sound quality otherwise. 

Sometimes I wish I could have one box for everything, no extraneous power supplies, cables, FMC’s servers, etc but all those things do make a difference, esp as for the time being I’m financially stuck with the gear I have, so small tweaks have made a huge difference, and have been the equivalent of a box upgrade or two for pennies, comparatively. I’ll challenge anyone to see if they can get a V1 or first gen UQ sounding as good as I’ve gotten mine. And the nice thing about network tweaks is that once done, they’re there for any future box upgrades. I think if one is streaming, and has any amount of DIY in their bloodstream, they owe it to themselves to pull up their sleeves and figure this stuff out. It’s not really that difficult except for the challenge of wading through Internet forums and parsing the info.

vtpcnk posted:

there is something interesting i discovered today. you do not need internet to stream when the streamer is hardwired to the router. you just need the router to route the network traffic. so for my bedroom setup i can simply setup a dummy router which is not connected to the internet and hook up the router to a NAS and the streamer and get it going. no need for a wifi extender etc.

remember the router only has a role to route between networks - ie the internet and the local network. If you are not using the internet - you are not using the router, however you are almost certainly using the switch that is built into the 'home router' to switch frames between hosts on your home network.

Clearly if you are streaming locally you don't need the use of the internet.........

Obsydian posted:

I found the following when progressing the various options from just adding a switch, cables and full power Fibre Bridge

I have ranked each (#) and then the order (1^st, 2^nd, etc…) of change.

 

Yes #03 – if you factor VFM and bang per £, then I would rate it #09, but I see this exercise as letting the Nova flourish and excel.

 

#01 (6^th) – Adding IFI power supplies (£90) to the fibre bridge = Major drop in noise floor, vivid soundstage;

#02 (5^th) – Adding fibre bridge (£75), between switch and Nova = Major improvement in dynamics, wide soundstage, everything got much better;

#03 (2^nd) – Upgrading Atom to Nova (£4100) = Allot more emotion and control, brings ease to the presentation (as in effortless);

#04 (3^rd) – A new Cisco 2960 = Much tighter grip/control/timing, made the used switch sound sluggish an “loose” in comparison;

#05 (1^st) – Adding a used Cisco 2960 (£100) used = Very noticeable improvement in dynamics and detail;

#06 (4^th) – Using Chord C Streams (£50) = Subtle but clear minor veil lifted;

#07 (7^th) – Using AQ Vodka (£500) fibre bridge to Nova = A clear step backwards, dynamics lost and heavy bloated bass.

#08 (8^th) - Wurth Ferrite Core = Nothing no change whatsoever

If you can ever fit Chord Indigo Aray Ethernet cable in your budget , it is a very clear upgrade in SQ over chord C stream! I was shocked how much ! 

musicfan51 posted:

Obsydian posted:

I found the following when progressing the various options from just adding a switch, cables and full power Fibre Bridge

I have ranked each (#) and then the order (1^st, 2^nd, etc…) of change.

 

Yes #03 – if you factor VFM and bang per £, then I would rate it #09, but I see this exercise as letting the Nova flourish and excel.

 

#01 (6^th) – Adding IFI power supplies (£90) to the fibre bridge = Major drop in noise floor, vivid soundstage;

#02 (5^th) – Adding fibre bridge (£75), between switch and Nova = Major improvement in dynamics, wide soundstage, everything got much better;

#03 (2^nd) – Upgrading Atom to Nova (£4100) = Allot more emotion and control, brings ease to the presentation (as in effortless);

#04 (3^rd) – A new Cisco 2960 = Much tighter grip/control/timing, made the used switch sound sluggish an “loose” in comparison;

#05 (1^st) – Adding a used Cisco 2960 (£100) used = Very noticeable improvement in dynamics and detail;

#06 (4^th) – Using Chord C Streams (£50) = Subtle but clear minor veil lifted;

#07 (7^th) – Using AQ Vodka (£500) fibre bridge to Nova = A clear step backwards, dynamics lost and heavy bloated bass.

#08 (8^th) - Wurth Ferrite Core = Nothing no change whatsoever

If you can ever fit Chord Indigo Aray Ethernet cable in your budget , it is a very clear upgrade in SQ over chord C stream! I was shocked how much ! 

You read my mind I have been talking to someone regarding an Epic Tuned Aray : ) also waiting on my dealer to get a few demo Chord cables in.

No quarter posted:

Mike-B posted:

The idea is to route the important connection between streamer & NAS through the switch,  the router connection is less important.   Having the NAS traffic go via router & then via switch makes no sense.   

Don’t confuse broadband/internet line speed connection  with switch or other network device ‘speeds’   

Now I am confused...I was thinking that I need a switch to isolate my gear from the router.I currently have my Core and 272 hard wired with Ethernet to my router.How do I know if my router is good enough as a switch?All this talk about fibre optic bridges etc.,had me thinking I am missing something...but am I really?To me it sounds good as is,but I guess I would not know if it can be improved,unless I buy all of these things.

if it is a commercial / tv/ phone / ethernet router, it is better to have a dedicated switch. you connect your 272 and nas to this switch, and the switch to router.

FR

I have a Cisco wireless router attached to the Modem provided by my internet provider,no phone or TV connected to it.I am at work,so I can not check the model number.Maybe this is basically a switch?I am not very good with all this computer lingo,but I originally got it just to have wifi in my house,but when I got a Unitiqute 2,hardwired it to the router,and everything worked good.

No quarter posted:

FR

I have a Cisco wireless router attached to the Modem provided by my internet provider,no phone or TV connected to it.I am at work,so I can not check the model number.Maybe this is basically a switch?I am not very good with all this computer lingo,but I originally got it just to have wifi in my house,but when I got a Unitiqute 2,hardwired it to the router,and everything worked good.

 

 

 

i followed the recommendations of this forum for a dedicated switch and it worked, the sound improved clearly. It was a simple netgear gs105 for 20GBP.  You can try, i don’t know if it will work for you. My router is a basic commercial tv/ phone / internet provider which i can’t change.

Now my switch is the cisco 2960 and it is better than before.

No quarter posted:

FR

I have a Cisco wireless router attached to the Modem provided by my internet provider,no phone or TV connected to it.I am at work,so I can not check the model number.Maybe this is basically a switch?I am not very good with all this computer lingo,but I originally got it just to have wifi in my house,but when I got a Unitiqute 2,hardwired it to the router,and everything worked good.

A switch only has a row of RJ45 sockets into which you plug Ethernet cables, allowing you to connect multiple devices to your network. Small ones commonly used for home networks normally have 5 or 8 ports. Your 'Cisco wireless router' may have multiple Ethernet ports, in which case it may, amongst its other capabilities, fulfil the function of a switch perfectly well if it is in a suitable physical location. 

Yes Chris,it is in a good location,and has about 6 or 8 Ethernet ports,I am just not sure of the quality of it,or if that matters.There is one Ethernet input that comes from the modem,the rest are outputs to connect devices to I guess.Maybe tomorrow I can post the model number of it,see what you guys think of it’s capabilities.

If I were you, I'd just use the Cisco thing you've got. Once it's up and running, if you feel the need to scratch an itch, look out for a cheap used Cisco Catalyst 2960 on ebay, put it in, and see if it sounds any different. 

Thanks Chris,kind of the same thing Simon in Suffolk said.

Hi Chris,or Simon

i am home now,and had a better look at my router...it appears to be a real cheap one,it as a Linksys E2500 Advanced Dual-Band N Router.There are only four Ethernet ports,do you think this thing can be improved upon with a switch?It does say Cisco on the box,any advice is greatly appreciated.

No quarter posted:

Hi Chris,or Simon

i am home now,and had a better look at my router...it appears to be a real cheap one,it as a Linksys E2500 Advanced Dual-Band N Router.There are only four Ethernet ports,do you think this thing can be improved upon with a switch?It does say Cisco on the box,any advice is greatly appreciated.

why not try yourself the cisco 2960-8tc, on bay, factory reset/ refurbished.  Before, even a simple switch as netgear separated from the router gave  me an real improvement ( perhaps also the separation from phone/tv...)

No quarter posted:

Hi Chris,or Simon

i am home now,and had a better look at my router...it appears to be a real cheap one,it as a Linksys E2500 Advanced Dual-Band N Router.There are only four Ethernet ports,do you think this thing can be improved upon with a switch?It does say Cisco on the box,any advice is greatly appreciated.

Lynksys used to be owned by Cisco, which can cause confusion between the two brands. Id ones look like a pretty cheap consumer grade device, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it won't work, so I would still be inclined to try it anyway. At least then you will have a baseline against which to compare other products. Improvements in sound quality are, in my limited experience, subtle at best, although others may have different experiences. 

The Linksys E2500 router is £28.49 from the big river,  I take that as not having the highest of spec's in the ethernet switching dept when you see a Linksys 5-Port 1Gbit switch is £22.99

The “router” supplied by ISPs can be thought of (if it helps) in the same way as the Uniti range vs Classic / 500 range of separates.

The ISP router is a combination of ADSL (VDSL for Fibre to the Cabinet) modem, router, firewall, switch and wireless access point.  Cramming all that in a box which costs less than £100 is going to require making compromises; just like even the best Uniti is compromised vs Classic range separates.

ChrisSU posted:

Lynksys used to be owned by Cisco, which can cause confusion between the two brands. Id ones look like a pretty cheap consumer grade device, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it won't work, so I would still be inclined to try it anyway. At least then you will have a baseline against which to compare other products. Improvements in sound quality are, in my limited experience, subtle at best, although others may have different experiences. 

A very sensible way to go - NQ, i'd heed this advice. 

>The “router” supplied by ISPs can be thought of (if it helps) in the same way as the Uniti range vs >Classic / 500 range of separates.

Mein Gott, i am feeling like a poor cousin now!!!

Thanks for the advice,Chris,I already have the Linksys router in place,I have been using it for about 4 years.So would I be better off getting a better router,or just adding a 2960 switch to the existing router?...if I try anything.

60GBP for a cisco 2960 is not a lot of money and you can return it if not satisfied. Perhaps you will loose 10GBP on return.  A lot found this switch a good investment and improvement in body of instruments and involvement.