network streaming tweaks

Obsydian posted:

Chrissu - sorry someone did, no matter.

Was too excited and came back to work from home at 11AM. Been going through many old but very familiar tracks i used as reference, and so much better, more dynamic, more detailed, sound stage is sublime - again a number of tracks are reinvented in the sense the layers peeled back and veil uncovered. I just started to crank up the volume though 

So glad it worked out for you. Next step is Roon which I think the new Uniti line is ready for. Upsampling via Roon to 128DSD to the DAC V1 and it’s fabulous. Even bypassing the ethernet altogether in the office and going toslink out from the Mac Pro where the Roon core resides and upsampling to 24/96 on my ancient UQ is revelatory. It is more $ for hardware (if you don't have already) and software but imo a much better investment than some four figure cable. 

vtpcnk posted:

"simon in suffolk" - in another thread you have said : "a  little Wifi access point glued onto the Broadband router in one point in the house just ain’t going to cut it reliably enough.. possibly it has been this low performance that has led some to think Wifi is not suitable for streaming.. "

can i know your views on optimal network configuration for a unitiqute in the bedroom? i already have a hardwired unitiqute in the living room and would like to know how i can optimally configure the network for another unitiqute in the bedroom.

appreciate the insights.

If there’s no ethernet cable to where the UQ resides, then you might try a repeater/extender that plugs into the wall and then a cable from that to the UQ. I think bypassing the UQ’s own WiFi is going to be the best bet for robustness and stability. 

charlesphoto posted:

Obsydian posted:

Chrissu - sorry someone did, no matter.

Was too excited and came back to work from home at 11AM. Been going through many old but very familiar tracks i used as reference, and so much better, more dynamic, more detailed, sound stage is sublime - again a number of tracks are reinvented in the sense the layers peeled back and veil uncovered. I just started to crank up the volume though 

So glad it worked out for you. Next step is Roon which I think the new Uniti line is ready for. Upsampling via Roon to 128DSD to the DAC V1 and it’s fabulous. Even bypassing the ethernet altogether in the office and going toslink out from the Mac Pro where the Roon core resides and upsampling to 24/96 on my ancient UQ is revelatory. It is more $ for hardware (if you don't have already) and software but imo a much better investment than some four figure cable. 

Is Roon really improving the sound quality?   There seems to be divergent points of view on this subject. Some find no improvement, other prefer audionirvana or minim server....

And you?

>with tp link mc110cs X2 and 2 optical fibers. eventually ifi power 5 v for each tp link.

2 optical fibers? i thought there was only one optical fiber cable between the two mc110cs?

regarding the 5v ps , can i know which one pls so i can have an idea. tks.

Well, like everything in computer audio it’s probably a moving target, and it may vary from system to system. What I will say is that the combo of Roon/Tidal has greatly improved my love of music - it’s often too easy to get swept up in minute sound changes to the detriment of discovering new music and seamlessly playing it (even from one’s own collection). And the Roon interface blows the Naim app and others out of the water. Had a Kraurock evening last night and discovered and “added” lots of great stuff to my collection. Now, of course if Tidal goes bust then I don’t any of it, but at least I’ll know what’s out there... it’s like having a record store that’s a lending library in your living room! And the Roon interface with Tidal is the best part and I’m sure will only be getting better. I think most limitations are on the Tidal end - they really do need a new UI designer. 

Eventually I’ll get a low power NUC as a dedicated server but for now it does well on my Mac Pro. I turned off audio analyzing, volume leveling, etc. and even with upsampling have it only using about 10% of my cores (important since it’s my photo biz work machine). No idea why people are bothering spending the $ they are on the Naim Core, when one could buy a much better dedicated server and have plenty of $ left over for a lifetime subscription to Roon. 

vtpcnk posted:

>with tp link mc110cs X2 and 2 optical fibers. eventually ifi power 5 v for each tp link.

2 optical fibers? i thought there was only one optical fiber cable between the two mc110cs?

regarding the 5v ps , can i know which one pls so i can have an idea. tks.

2X TPLINK MC110CS

1X SC (single mode) optical cable

iFi 5v iPower - I think they only make one model in 5v. Best to separate upstream and downstream FMC’s on different circuits for the ultimate in sound quality but with a simple UQ setup wouldn’t bother. You could even power both from the same iFi with a simple DC Y splitter though will probably sound better with two. Most important is the FMC nearest the UQ. 

Ok that’s it. Now just go do it. 

charlesphoto posted:

Well, like everything in computer audio it’s probably a moving target, and it may vary from system to system. What I will say is that the combo of Roon/Tidal has greatly improved my love of music - it’s often too easy to get swept up in minute sound changes to the detriment of discovering new music and seamlessly playing it (even from one’s own collection). And the Roon interface blows the Naim app and others out of the water. Had a Kraurock evening last night and discovered and “added” lots of great stuff to my collection. Now, of course if Tidal goes bust then I don’t any of it, but at least I’ll know what’s out there... it’s like having a record store that’s a lending library in your living room! And the Roon interface with Tidal is the best part and I’m sure will only be getting better. I think most limitations are on the Tidal end - they really do need a new UI designer. 

Eventually I’ll get a low power NUC as a dedicated server but for now it does well on my Mac Pro. I turned off audio analyzing, volume leveling, etc. and even with upsampling have it only using about 10% of my cores (important since it’s my photo biz work machine). No idea why people are bothering spending the $ they are on the Naim Core, when one could buy a much better dedicated server and have plenty of $ left over for a lifetime subscription to Roon. 

have you compared your nuc server with the uniticore?    For myself i prefer a bit the sound of my downloads or ripped cds on my unitserve vs Tidal.   There are lots of topics on that, but the costly nas/servers like melco are among the best.  Some here had before mac mini tweaked servers and prefer now the uniticore or melco.

I still personally buy cds that i can’t find on qobuz or hdtracks and appreciate the easy ripping on my unitserve. I don’t like computers.... So the idea of using a computer to have roon is not for me.

I’m currently using a purpose built older fanless Vortexbox that’s always done the job. It can rip but I prefer using Dbpoweramp on my desktop. Will get a NUC when some recent invoices start rolling in. Yes, I would say that my locally stored music sounds better than the same album coming from Tidal. But like I said there’s always trade offs and for me it’s about new music discovery vs ultimate sound quality (which I’m not even close to at my fincancial level). What i’m loving about Roon is the ability to play to the microRendu, our Sonos in the kitchen and bathroom, from my Mac Pro to the UQ, airplay to the Muso in the bedroom, and soon set up a Roon bridge on my son’s pc in his room (though at nine he’s like “why not just play from youtube?”). If you have a machine to run the core on and a recent tablet for the remote (12.9 iPad pro for me) it’s well worth the trial. I didn’t think much of it a few years back when I first trialed but it’s night and day from then. 

Thing is you can just buy a NUC and put Roon’s ROCK on it and that’s that, for less than $500. No need to monkey with windows etc. I already have a linear power supply on the Vortexbox so will use that to power the NUC. Otherwise looking at 3-5x that for a dedicated audiophile server. 

garyi posted:

Essentially some of you people would appear to be insane.

Nope just you.

charlesphoto posted:

vtpcnk posted:

>with tp link mc110cs X2 and 2 optical fibers. eventually ifi power 5 v for each tp link.

2 optical fibers? i thought there was only one optical fiber cable between the two mc110cs?

regarding the 5v ps , can i know which one pls so i can have an idea. tks.

2X TPLINK MC110CS

1X SC (single mode) optical cable

iFi 5v iPower - I think they only make one model in 5v. Best to separate upstream and downstream FMC’s on different circuits for the ultimate in sound quality but with a simple UQ setup wouldn’t bother. You could even power both from the same iFi with a simple DC Y splitter though will probably sound better with two. Most important is the FMC nearest the UQ. 

Ok that’s it. Now just go do it. 

Ifi comes in 4 different voltages but as mentioned here and elsewhere 5v is best.

charlesphoto posted:

Obsydian posted:

Chrissu - sorry someone did, no matter.

Was too excited and came back to work from home at 11AM. Been going through many old but very familiar tracks i used as reference, and so much better, more dynamic, more detailed, sound stage is sublime - again a number of tracks are reinvented in the sense the layers peeled back and veil uncovered. I just started to crank up the volume though 

So glad it worked out for you. Next step is Roon which I think the new Uniti line is ready for. Upsampling via Roon to 128DSD to the DAC V1 and it’s fabulous. Even bypassing the ethernet altogether in the office and going toslink out from the Mac Pro where the Roon core resides and upsampling to 24/96 on my ancient UQ is revelatory. It is more $ for hardware (if you don't have already) and software but imo a much better investment than some four figure cable. 

Charles I am all Tidal and a few 10s of Gig on USB. I did try Roon as part of the freebie but never got the Tidal link to work and thought Leave it.

DSD128, I have a few 128 mainly classical but very good, i have mote DSD64 and they are very good.

I'm going to enjoy the upgrades should keep me happy for a while, until the new NDS, or does this prove you don't need to always be box sheep first ...

Huh that’s strange. Tidal/Roon work like a charm - maybe it was an older iteration? Best thing is to be able to add virtual copies of the Tidal albums to your existing library and have it all work seamlessly in one app. Maybe you can request another free trial (or do as I did and use a different email)? Seriously, before I was meh, not worth the $500. Now I’m like, seriously worth the $500! 

On the whole, I found Roon easy to set up, although I did have to read and re-read some of the instructions along the way. Once set up, I find that it works very well - my only gripe is that it messed up Tidal My Music section by adding hundreds of random albums to it, which is apparently a known issue. 

My impressions of Roon so far have been that it does what it does very well. And it does a lot of things. The trouble is, most of those things, either I can already do elsewhere, or I don't want to do. So for now, it's not something I will bother with, but I'm sure some will like it, and I don't want to upset any of you Roon evangelists by suggesting that my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's.

vtpcnk posted:

"simon in suffolk" - in another thread you have said : "a  little Wifi access point glued onto the Broadband router in one point in the house just ain’t going to cut it reliably enough.. possibly it has been this low performance that has led some to think Wifi is not suitable for streaming.. "

can i know your views on optimal network configuration for a unitiqute in the bedroom? i already have a hardwired unitiqute in the living room and would like to know how i can optimally configure the network for another unitiqute in the bedroom.

appreciate the insights.

Can you run an ethernet cable from your switch to the bedroom?  That's all you need and is optimal.

ChrisSU posted:

My impressions of Roon so far have been that it does what it does very well. And it does a lot of things. The trouble is, most of those things, either I can already do elsewhere, or I don't want to do. So for now, it's not something I will bother with, but I'm sure some will like it, and I don't want to upset any of you Roon evangelists by suggesting that my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's.

Thanks Chris -- I was wondering about this myself.  I have a feeling that I'd be in the same boat.

vtpcnk posted:

"simon in suffolk" - in another thread you have said : "a  little Wifi access point glued onto the Broadband router in one point in the house just ain’t going to cut it reliably enough.. possibly it has been this low performance that has led some to think Wifi is not suitable for streaming.. "

can i know your views on optimal network configuration for a unitiqute in the bedroom? i already have a hardwired unitiqute in the living room and would like to know how i can optimally configure the network for another unitiqute in the bedroom.

appreciate the insights.

Hi, are talking Wifi? If so you might want to consider Wifi access points like Ubiquiti hardwired back to a switch, or switchports on your router. You might want to consider one AP in the landing, and assuming wooden bedroom floors and joists, an AP downstairs in a room below the bedroom. That way you should have overlapping load balancing coverage setup as an ESSID... this should work well with streaming and other Wifi users, and give optimum Wifi coverage for streaming etc. These days you really don’t need to run Ethernet to all devices, it’s what we have Wifi for.. you just need to do Wifi properly....leave the Ethernet for connecting the access points and connecting servers, NASs etc. or where it is more convienient to run Ethernet to a client... and of course Wifi gives you true electrical isolation unlike fibre/Ethernet media converters...

Bart posted:

ChrisSU posted:

My impressions of Roon so far have been that it does what it does very well. And it does a lot of things. The trouble is, most of those things, either I can already do elsewhere, or I don't want to do. So for now, it's not something I will bother with, but I'm sure some will like it, and I don't want to upset any of you Roon evangelists by suggesting that my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's.

Thanks Chris -- I was wondering about this myself.  I have a feeling that I'd be in the same boat.

No harming doing the free trial, though. I believe you can run it on some NAS drives, although I haven't figured out how you would get it to play to an ND streamer.

I'm OK over here thanks! I hope you will indulge me when I laugh at the extent some of you people are going to, to 'improve' your audio. 

Simple and stable is the order of the day for network, if you want to fiddle (and I accept men do) then point your eyes at the mains, thats always good for a larf as well.*

*If nothing else we are all entertained from the sidelines.

No I hear you. After I tried it the first time I thought - well I can do that. Until I couldn't. Been using Peng the last couple of years and the Naim app and the Sonos and all good but still getting bored of music, esp my own. I spend most of my day in the basement office so having a good shuffle function is key and Naim that is not. Used Jriver for awhile but tired of the Windows XP on Mac design. And since CA gave this latest update of Roon the product of the year award thought I had to try it again and maybe it's just the time writ's the product is that much better but blown away with the functionality of it. Still a few things I pointed out for the next version as they asked over on the Community Boards. They seem like people that listen and really know how to write software. Actually having the hardware to run it on is key as well - before I didn't have a new enough iPad as a a remote and didn't enjoy the experience with my older Macbook. The Macbook went kaput and got a used iPad 12.9 Pro so all good and will ad a NUC or SonicTransporter in the closet at a later date. 

We all have different needs and uses, but I have certainly seen the light of ROON. Hallelujah!

garyi posted:

I'm OK over here thanks! I hope you will indulge me when I laugh at the extent some of you people are going to, to 'improve' your audio. 

Simple and stable is the order of the day for network, if you want to fiddle (and I accept men do) then point your eyes at the mains, thats always good for a larf as well.*

 

 

 

 

 

*If nothing else we are all entertained from the sidelines.

Well somebody's gotta sit on the sidelines while others explore...

On that I do agree.

garyi posted:

I'm OK over here thanks! I hope you will indulge me when I laugh at the extent some of you people are going to, to 'improve' your audio. 

Simple and stable is the order of the day for network, if you want to fiddle (and I accept men do) then point your eyes at the mains, thats always good for a larf as well.*

 

 

 

 

 

*If nothing else we are all entertained from the sidelines.

i don’t think that adding 2 little fmc converters with an optical fiber cable between is something excessive or crazy. The network is just noisy and the commercial router is a crap.

For less than 100GBP you have more improvement than going from xps to 555 ps .....i had before an xps on my nds and now 555ps ( 6000GBP more expensive!). The improvement was clear, but this little network bridge is fantastic for the price..  Laugh if you want, we prefer to enjoy....

£100 would get you a dell optiplex or similar, with an i3 processor and nearly a years worth of Untangle routing. Giving the user a massively more powerful router than anything supplied by an ISP or indeed sold as 'routers'. The net result, a superbly stable network infrastructure backed up at the top end by a powerful processor (in this application) and plenty of ram and industry leading routing software inclusive of firewall, web filters and phish blockers.

For all the complicated talk, the outcome is a stable network, something Simon is advocating but most are ignoring in preference to overly complicated set ups for reasons, (I'll be honest), I cannot fathom, but the user decides 'sounds better'. It never ceases to amaze me how complicated things have to get for that better (but never perfect) sound.

One thing Untangle does not advocate of its software however is 'audio quality', perhaps they are missing a trick eh?

I'll admit I have tinkered, but one area I am not going to piss around with is networking, many many people have delivered way before me in situations far more complicated than one of us geeks, with too much money listening to Joni Mitchell far more than is healthy for them. YouTube is a wonderful resource, I suggest you watch some stuff on there from network guys (I like fibre ninja) who demonstrate the right way to do things. In *all* cases the simplest way to achieve something is best, but then networking never was about audio was it, why have simple when complicated and expensive will do?

But hey fill your boots, its only a bit of fun. As you rightly point out your are doing the experimenting.

garyi posted:

£100 would get you a dell optiplex or similar, with an i3 processor and nearly a years worth of Untangle routing. Giving the user a massively more powerful router than anything supplied by an ISP or indeed sold as 'routers'. The net result, a superbly stable network infrastructure backed up at the top end by a powerful processor (in this application) and plenty of ram and industry leading routing software inclusive of firewall, web filters and phish blockers.

For all the complicated talk, the outcome is a stable network, something Simon is advocating but most are ignoring in preference to overly complicated set ups for reasons, (I'll be honest), I cannot fathom, but the user decides 'sounds better'. It never ceases to amaze me how complicated things have to get for that better (but never perfect) sound.

One thing Untangle does not advocate of its software however is 'audio quality', perhaps they are missing a trick eh?

I'll admit I have tinkered, but one area I am not going to piss around with is networking, many many people have delivered way before me in situations far more complicated than one of us geeks, with too much money listening to Joni Mitchell far more than is healthy for them. YouTube is a wonderful resource, I suggest you watch some stuff on there from network guys (I like fibre ninja) who demonstrate the right way to do things. In *all* cases the simplest way to achieve something is best, but then networking never was about audio was it, why have simple when complicated and expensive will do?

But hey fill your boots, its only a bit of fun. As you rightly point out your are doing the experimenting.

the network isolation is employed by Melco audio , acoustic revive....i will hardly say that they don’t know their stuff.  The network guys are also experimenting a lot of things in computer audiophile site and audio stream. Take a look.   I discovered this network bridge in computer audiophile.

You can achieve perhaps the same results with other solutions, but i don’t know them.   I tried acoustic revive lan isolator but found that this network bridge gives a better sound.

I followed Simon advise for Cisco 2960 switch, which gave more stable network.  But it doesn’t isolate the network from noise.   This fmc solution is simple and effective, i trust my ears. We are a lot pleased by it, on devialet chat, computer audiophile, linn forum, naim forum, home cinema.fr, audio stream, .....but perhaps all our ears are wrong?

ok if simple is best , tell us the simplest way to bring a fiber optic cable into the chain?