Coming back to Naim after a hiatus

Are your rips lossless (e.g. flac, was, aiff) or lossy (e.g. mp3)? Hopefully the former, otherwise sadly your sound quality is fundamentally limited.

The solutions are so varied it is unrealistic to list them all, and yndoubtedly others will chip in with various suggestions or comments on your thoughts, so I’ll look from a slightly different angle: A Mac can actually make a very good source by running Audirvana as a renderer (available as a free trial), though for best quality might be better headless, and certainly dedicated when playing music. Audiv. has the ability to bypass the Mac’s own sound card for optimum sound quality, sending output via usb to a DAC.  Computers are inherently riddled with RF noise, so unless the DAC has exemplary rejection some form of isolated is necessary for best sound quality. I don’t know how good Naim’s DAC V1 (which has a USB input) is at isolation. The nDAC hasn’t got a usb input, so lends ltself to using a combined isolated/converter (to SPDIF or optical) like the Gustard U12. Alternatively the Chord Hugo for what many say is a more natural, analog-like sound, though it definitely needs an isolated if fed from a computer (I used a Gustard when I had a Hugo). Any of these can feed any preamp, though Hugo is actually capable of going direct into a power amp.

Future upgrade could be a dedicated Mac (e.g. Mac Mini) if you like Audirvana, or another combined store-renderer such as Naim Uniti Core, or Melco, or Innuos Zenith, or if you’re into diy, raspberry pi and microrendu. Personally I prefer the renderer and store to be combined, obviating the problems and challenges that seem to beset a proportion of people streaming from a NAS across a network to a player.

much on all of these to be found searching the forum.

Anything in the Naim product catalog or elsewhere attract your interest?  Naim owners like you and me tend to have particular requirements and preferences.  

Nick

I think three boxes will be pretty challenging as you had an already pretty established system. But let me try to give a chance. Given you experience the 272 with 555ps and a 250 Dr might get close. But as mentioned it’s not easy / feasible to beat your old setup with three boxes.

Uniti Star! Surely? It was made for you.

‘My last system was a CDS3/XPS2/252/SC2/250.2’

Had that system too (with 300) before the leap into streaming. Ime now I think you’d be very pleasantly surprised by the ‘fit & forget’ 272/XPSDR/250DR.

G

novelty posted:

And I've wondered if Naim bitperfect ripping produces a better file than the one I've ripped with my computer usb connected drive ( i think it was around 99% on the error chart that is floating around here).

No, it doesn't.  If there are errors, you'll hear them as clicks/glitches, that sort of thing.  Some software is better at recovering errors.  For example itunes will sometimes rip blithely on while dbpoweramp with the right settings will notice the error and try to re-read the dodgy part of the disk, and then check the result to make sure it's accurate.  But unless there are obvious errors of this click/pop/glitch kind, the file should be fine.

In terms of sound quality, the kind of 'x sounds slightly more spacious than y' audiophile thinking doesn't apply.  Lossless rips are either an accurate copy of the data on the CD, or they are not.  If they're not accurate, you get glitches.  If they are accurate, you get exactly the same data with nothing changed whatsoever.

If I can't find a single box option then the 272 looks interesting and wonder what a UnitiServe/272/250DR would sound like or if that's an option.

Subject to confirmation in an audition, it will almost certainly sound good.  But not as good as a Synology or QNAP NAS  feeding a 272/XPS DR/ 250 DR.

Thank you for the responses. It sounds like a third party NAS is a better alternative to the UnitiServe. 

Synology appears to be the preferred option for Mac users. I'm not sure where to start with purchasing one as there seems to be a number of options. Is there a good online resource to get educated on the product?

It sounds like for future ripping I should go to dBpoweramp in lieu of XLD? Is it worth re-ripping my library with this software? I was under the impression the XLD was acceptable for hifi.

For clarification, I don't expect to achieve the sonics of my last system with my initial purchases, I'm mostly interested in improving upon my current set up and getting lined up for a solid upgrade path. I'm not obsessed with achieving perfect hifi and do enjoy the journey, often times more so than the destination. 

For what it’s worth the QNAP works perfectly with iPads and MacBooks as well as my steam powered Lenovo el cheapo PC.

Yup,  QNAP is the other NAS to consider.   However I'm a Synology user so I'll stick to that:  Synology comes with an easy installation package.   It has a nice GUI on your laptop/PC to enable easy system management & interaction with whatever else.      The included pre-installed apps package includes Synology's own DLNA/UPnP software to link the NAS & Naim to your iOS or Android device used as a control point.  In the pre-installed app package it has an alternative UPnP music server called Minimserver with its required Java.  And remember Synology NAS's have far far more pre-installed software for a whole raft of business, security & stuff I don't have a clue about.

This is a link to Synology 2-bay models   https://www.synology.com/en-global/products?bays=2   any model with an 18 is the latest model, 16 will be phased out anytime soon but you might get a good deal on if you look around.    If you're not going with video, the low cost J series & the Value series will be good for audio. If going for video, especially with 4K, then the higher spec'd Value series & the Plus Series are the ones to go for.     The differences are all about performance/speed etc,  but neither performance or speed make the sound quality any different,  all it does is access (find) the files faster.     What you're looking at is CPU spec, this will be single, dual or quad core, operating frequency & OS flash memory.    As a benchmark my Synology is a DS214  & has a Marvell Armada XP CPU with Dual Core 1.066 GHz, (Flash) Memory is 512MB DDR3.     

Hard drives are either HDD's (spinning discs) or SSD (solid state).  SSD's are very fast & silent, but they're comparatively expensive & don't go to the big TB capacities of HDD. You will have to install these in whatever NAS you choose, its just a matter of choosing a TB size for what you need. But if it turns out to be too small in the future, with a 2 bay NAS set in RAID-1 you just hot swap a bigger HDD & it copies from the other one, then after that change the other one.   Most peeps around the forum seem to choose  WD “Red” HDD's, these are ideal for audio/video type use, they run slower (5400rpm) than other high performance disks (7200rpm).     

I guess thats enough to be going on with,  www search is your friend & the big river will give you an idea of prices.   

It sounds like QNAP is easier to configure/use than Synology. Is that an accurate statement?

If the QNAP functions 100% with Apple/IOS (no MS products in this household) I will go this route as I don't like overly complicated software.

Where did you get that info from.   I use a Syn & am more familiar with it,  but I have set up QNAP's & did not find much difference.  

Check out a Qnap HS 251+ with Samsung 2tb ssds and a Teddy Pardo power supply,  I moved to it from a Synology DS716+ which is now the video server with 2x 6tb WD Red HDD's. Both are easy to set up but I'd have to say I prefer the Qnap UI its less complex I find. The Qnap works very well with Asset transcoding from almost any format to WAV or playng DSD or internet radio. It depends on how much you want to spend after that but a second hand ND5xs sounds very nice.

novelty posted:

Hello to my fellow enthusiasts. I've been away from audio for a while, sold my last Naim kit and traveled for a few years. 

My last system was a CDS3/XPS2/252/SC2/250.2

In the meantime I ripped my CD collection with XLD to AIFF using a Macbook Air SSD connected by USB. It's currently connected to a Quad Vena Integrated Amp via USB. It sounds quite good and I've been content but I'm at a point where I want to improve upon the arrangement. 

I'm not up to speed on the integration of streaming and HIFI and not sure what the optimal set up is wrt streaming. I've been catching up though and have a high level understanding. Most of the uncertainty is around which Naim products do what I want and which ones don't.

Box count matters to me, I don't want to accumulate a tower of components, ideally 2 pieces but I have space for 3 and will go that route if the enjoyment to $ ratio makes sense.

1) I'd like to get the computer out of my hifi. It seems like this should yield some sonic benefit but I can't say for sure. I think a second hand UnitiServe makes sense for this. My library is only 1TB so I like that I can have everything in one place with the 2TB internal storage. And I've wondered if Naim bitperfect ripping produces a better file than the one I've ripped with my computer usb connected drive ( i think it was around 99% on the error chart that is floating around here). 

2) I'm uncertain as to what my amp options are for connecting the UnitServe, especially from a balance standpoint. I've listened to a Nova and it sounded pretty good. I had a first generation Supernait and I didn't care for the sonics with a CDS2 at the time, it started sounding decent with a SC2 on it though. If I can't find a single box option then the 272 looks interesting and wonder what a UnitiServe/272/250DR would sound like or if that's an option.

There's a wealth of knowledge here and I always like hearing the differing POVs, I'm hoping some of the long time members are still poking about. 

Thanks in advance for your input. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tricky one to know what to suggest here.

For the last couple of years my old Naim system (Nac72/old 250s/active SBLS and Linn LP 12 have been in storage).

I've been itching for a nice streamer for ages but nothing had really quite ticked the boxes for one reason or another.   I was intrigued by the new Uniti series when I moved back home and wanted a one box solution for the living room/family area rather than the AV room which is still out of commission full of junk.

I went for a Uniti Atom partly as it sounded good in the store, partly as the dealer had one in stock.  Nice machine but it had a display fault so went back and I took the opportunity to try the Nova which was significantly better with my old Epos speakers which had been acting as rears in the AV room.  I'll be interested to see how the SBLs work with the Nova when I get around to getting them back.

I hooked up a 250 to the Nova and that gave much more authority driving the speakers, but couldn't decide if I preferred the presentation with or without the 250 - very music dependent I found.  I'd disconnected the 250 for Christmas to put a tree up, but one day I was playing some music and just felt there was something missing in terms of overall sound so trotted off and reconnected the 250 which did the trick.

Personally, although perhaps I wanted a lifestyle one box solution for a second area, ultimately this may not be good enough for me and I've now developed an interest in investigating higher end DR amps .  What's missing currently form the range is a Uniti Style high quality pre-amp which can be upgraded - as was pointed out to me that's the 'Uniti' idea but such a shame you can't add a Hi-Cap or something better (I only say that as I have several ;-) ), and once I'd added the 250 I wa perhaps wanting a pre only with the extra dosh going on that section only not the Uniti's power amp.  Perhaps I approached things the wrong way, but as the older classic streamers are unlikely to get Roon or other updates I didn't want to go that route at the time.

Considering your past Naim kit I do wonder if you'll be happy not going for an equivalent or better solution incorporating streaming.

I used XLD and want to re-visit it - it does or did support AccurateRip from memory.  I just started testing dbPowerAmp tonight - 21 day trial.  I probably haven't configured it properly yet but seems to be ripping quite well with an old USB connected BluRay writer which would not be my preferred choice of drive but is what I have right now.  I'm not sure it'll give me much more than XLD did in some areas, possibly less, and the interface is basic but if it gets the job done that shouldn't matter - issue right now is that album artwork it's offering is very poor in many cases coming watermarked with URLs for some presumably iffy Russian sites!

Mike-B posted:

Where did you get that info from.   I use a Syn & am more familiar with it,  but I have set up QNAP's & did not find much difference.  

I'm guessing this might mean Minimserver vs Asset rather than Synology vs QNAP?

Mike-B posted:

Where did you get that info from.   I use a Syn & am more familiar with it,  but I have set up QNAP's & did not find much difference.  

Sources online indicate Synology is more suited for Mac/IOS and QNAP for PC. I've been told this offline as well. I don't think it means you can't use them just more suited. Not sure. People do seem to prefer QNAP. If it works flawlessly with Mac/IOS and is not overly complicated I'm sold.  

I use a Synology NAS with a Mac and have no issues at all. All the configuration stuff is done via a web-based GUI, so for the most part it's platform agnostic.

If you want a QNAP then get one, but there aren't any problems with Synology and Macs either.

novelty posted:

It sounds like QNAP is easier to configure/use than Synology. Is that an accurate statement?

If the QNAP functions 100% with Apple/IOS (no MS products in this household) I will go this route as I don't like overly complicated software.

 

I have both Synology and QNAP, and only use a Macbook Pro.  Both are equally easy to set up and maintain.  And both have dedicated apps to access them with a Mac.  You'll use the apps for initial setup and for updating the nas system software, but for copying over music its just Finder that you'll use.  

The two most popular server software packages are Minimserver and Asset.  Minim runs on both, but Asset really is only available for QNAP.  I prefer Asset and thus a QNAP nas is my home server. I back it up to the Synology nas.

" Novelty posted:

It sounds like for future ripping I should go to dBpoweramp in lieu of XLD? Is it worth re-ripping my library with this software? I was under the impression the XLD was acceptable for hifi.

XLD is the only ripping software I have ever used since I started about 3 years ago. A file ripped with XLD will be just as accurate as one with dBpoweramp, it uses AccurateRip to check the file integrity. XLD is opensource and free. I do any tag editing with Kid3 which is also free and opensource. All your existing rips should work fine. You may wish to experiment with some wav files and see if you feel there is a difference through a Naim streamer. Naim streamers are said to be optimized for wav. My files are all ripped in flac and converted to wav "on the fly" using Minim server. I have not tried to convert AIFF to wav but imagine it could be done the same way.

novelty posted:

Mike-B posted:

Where did you get that info from.   I use a Syn & am more familiar with it,  but I have set up QNAP's & did not find much difference.  

Sources online indicate Synology is more suited for Mac/IOS and QNAP for PC. I've been told this offline as well. I don't think it means you can't use them just more suited. Not sure. People do seem to prefer QNAP. If it works flawlessly with Mac/IOS and is not overly complicated I'm sold.  

Absolute buffalo chips !!!    There really-  & I mean really - is no difference, reason or logic to believe that any one NAS is better with any of the different OS's.   And this is the first time ever that I've heard of such a thing.    

I agree with Mike, if both NASs support AFP (Apple File Protocol) and SMB (Server Message Block) also known as CIFS (Common Internet File System) then they are both as equally suited to OSX as Microsoft.

novelty posted:

It sounds like for future ripping I should go to dBpoweramp in lieu of XLD? Is it worth re-ripping my library with this software? I was under the impression the XLD was acceptable for hifi.

 

No, XLD is also bit perfect and does a great job of ripping. 

Mike1960 posted:

My files are all ripped in flac and converted to wav "on the fly" using Minim server. I have not tried to convert AIFF to wav but imagine it could be done the same way.

Unfortunately Minim won’t transcode AIFF to WAV, but as you noted it converts from FLAC or Apple Lossless to WAV. 

Thank you for all the responses, I just ordered a 2 x 4TB QNAP from my dealer. They should have it all loaded up by next week. 

Now to figure out the streamer and amp solution. 

Update, I just picked up a well cared for, low hour, Superuniti, non bluetooth. So that and the QNAP will be my foray into hifi streaming. 

I hope setting this thing up won’t be too difficult.   

I found my Superuniti a doddle to set up and I only have an OK understanding of computers but certainly no whizz kid!
Remember that if the SuperUniti has previously been used, it might pay to do a factory reset, so that there are no settings remembered from its previous life.