What happen to xs series

Do you mean like this?

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nait-xs-2

Ray1 posted:

what happen to xs series

The XS offerings have gotten skinny. As far as I can tell it's now down to the Nait XS 2, FCXS, and ND5 XS, and I have to wonder how long the latter box will persist. Time marches on and demand seems the final arbiter of the line.

I guess the critical question is: how does the XS2/ND5XS compare to the Star at a very similar price point? If there is no sonic advantage from having separates, more and more customers will turn towards the Star — the final death kiss for the XS series...

Timo posted:

I guess the critical question is: how does the XS2/ND5XS compare to the Star at a very similar price point? If there is no sonic advantage from having separates, more and more customers will turn towards the Star — the final death kiss for the XS series...

You almost sound like you are willing it! One day Star will face extinction too. 

Ray1, why do you ask?

Christopher_M posted:

Timo posted:

I guess the critical question is: how does the XS2/ND5XS compare to the Star at a very similar price point? If there is no sonic advantage from having separates, more and more customers will turn towards the Star — the final death kiss for the XS series...

You almost sound like you are willing it! One day Star will face extinction too. 

Ray1, why do you ask?

Not sure what you talking about. I am a happy XS2/ND5XS owner — admittedly with upgrade ambitions... But no intentions to audition a Star...

P.S. From a resale value point of view, i certainly wish the XS series a long life... 

One of my friends and he comes on here from time to time owned (in order) the XS2, Uniti2, ND5 XS & XS2, and now the 272/250 DR.  He said really going from the U2 to the ND5 XS & XS2 wasn’t a significant move. That they were very similar and how impressive the U2 actually was in comparison to the separates. 

My journey has been 5i-2, XS, Uniti 2, and now the Star. There is no doubt that the Star has been the best product I have owned from Naim thus far. I bought the Star without hearing it and fully expected the same product as the U2 with better streaming and less dropouts, what I got was a product with a FAR better sonic presentation, no audio dropouts, and much more functionality. 

I would hate to see the XS line go, however I do believe the Star can be a replacement for that entire line. 

Christopher_M posted:

Timo posted:

I guess the critical question is: how does the XS2/ND5XS compare to the Star at a very similar price point? If there is no sonic advantage from having separates, more and more customers will turn towards the Star — the final death kiss for the XS series...

You almost sound like you are willing it! One day Star will face extinction too. 

Ray1, why do you ask?

Just curious it was a good entry line for naim, that what I started now

282, 250.2, cdx2, hi-cap, xps-2 spendor

So when the desingers of the new uniti series said they’d not compared them with existing products (and I did ask) they might have been telling the truth? Well some people said they wanted an amp update, there might be a nucleus of one just there.

Star can’t be upgraded (with the power supplier) and xs series has this opportunity. I wouldn’t exchange my entire xs system for Star... maybe for SuperNait 2  but never for all-in-one unit 

My theory might be that for the XS series target audience in 2018, such people might be interested more in an all-in-one solution vs. separates, and might include network connectivity as a must-have in home audio.  

This theory goes something like . . . those who are entering the 'quality home sound market' are of an age that they grew up with iPods and have been using Spotify or other streaming services for a while.  They would view access to online streaming as an essential built-in, not a bolt-on, feature.

In other words, the population of people who want to enter the hi fi world with 20th century style separates may well be too small to support much of a market.

Bart posted:

My theory might be that for the XS series target audience in 2018, such people might be interested more in an all-in-one solution vs. separates, and might include network connectivity as a must-have in home audio.  

This theory goes something like . . . those who are entering the 'quality home sound market' are of an age that they grew up with iPods and have been using Spotify or other streaming services for a while.  They would view access to online streaming as an essential built-in, not a bolt-on, feature.

In other words, the population of people who want to enter the hi fi world with 20th century style separates may well be too small to support much of a market.

If one know the sales figures for different products it would be easier to predict.

I suspect XP5XS didn’t have great sales, as it gave such a marginal improvement (at least on my ND5XS) as to be not with the cost, whereas I suspect ND5XS still has reasonably strong sales as an entry-level quality streamer for people who want or already have ‘separates’ system, whether or not already including Naim.

Bart posted:

My theory might be that for the XS series target audience in 2018, such people might be interested more in an all-in-one solution vs. separates, and might include network connectivity as a must-have in home audio.  

This theory goes something like . . . those who are entering the 'quality home sound market' are of an age that they grew up with iPods and have been using Spotify or other streaming services for a while.  They would view access to online streaming as an essential built-in, not a bolt-on, feature.

In other words, the population of people who want to enter the hi fi world with 20th century style separates may well be too small to support much of a market.

I know it's just YOUR theory, but if I was a gambling man, my money would be on your theory!

New Topic! LOL....

Allante93!

Kacper posted:

Star can’t be upgraded (with the power supplier) and xs series has this opportunity. I wouldn’t exchange my entire xs system for Star... maybe for SuperNait 2  but never for all-in-one unit 

Yes because after buying a $3500 Integrated amp I want to spend $2k more on a fvcking power supply, plus $3600 on a CD player(?) and $4500 on an outdated network streamer? 

Ill get the $5500 all-in-one that sounds just as good and saves me $8k. I owned the XS and wouldn’t “go backwards” to it again. Almost bought a SN at on point also, but went Uniti instead. I will say the original Uniti line sounded too dry and digital, but the current line sounds rich and much more analog. IMO 

I agree with Bart’s theory, but as a man in his 40s and has been doing this for a while, and on my 4th piece of Naim gear... I’ll stick with the all-in-one. YMMV

If I was looking to move from my two box configuration, currently a ND5XS/XS 2, to a single box solution I would have gone for the Nova vs the Star, it just appeared to have more appeal and represented the product that I currently use, Streaming/Integrated amp.  

I still believe there are a lot of folks out there who will purchase integrated amps and having the three tier line makes a lot of sense to me. I am happy they were there when I looked at NAIM in the past year and selected the XS 2 as my first purchase.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bart posted:

My theory might be that for the XS series target audience in 2018, such people might be interested more in an all-in-one solution vs. separates, and might include network connectivity as a must-have in home audio.  

This theory goes something like . . . those who are entering the 'quality home sound market' are of an age that they grew up with iPods and have been using Spotify or other streaming services for a while.  They would view access to online streaming as an essential built-in, not a bolt-on, feature.

In other words, the population of people who want to enter the hi fi world with 20th century style separates may well be too small to support much of a market.

If one know the sales figures for different products it would be easier to predict.

I suspect XP5XS didn’t have great sales, as it gave such a marginal improvement (at least on my ND5XS) as to be not with the cost, whereas I suspect ND5XS still has reasonably strong sales as an entry-level quality streamer for people who want or already have ‘separates’ system, whether or not already including Naim.

I use a XP5xs on my 272, sounds great and made a very nice improvement cost me a grand for my ex demo unit.

The removal of the XP5 changes the dynamics of the sound the bass is not as deep (trust me I notice these things as I run Proac Tab10) soundstage not as wide and detail takes a hit.

Its a shame Naim stopped producing the XP5 as the next PSU is getting close to four grand, is it twice as good I doubt it.

Callas01 posted:

Kacper posted:

Star can’t be upgraded (with the power supplier) and xs series has this opportunity. I wouldn’t exchange my entire xs system for Star... maybe for SuperNait 2  but never for all-in-one unit 

Yes because after buying a $3500 Integrated amp I want to spend $2k more on a fvcking power supply, plus $3600 on a CD player(?) and $4500 on an outdated network streamer? 

Ill get the $5500 all-in-one that sounds just as good and saves me $8k. I owned the XS and wouldn’t “go backwards” to it again. Almost bought a SN at on point also, but went Uniti instead. I will say the original Uniti line sounded too dry and digital, but the current line sounds rich and much more analog. IMO 

I agree with Bart’s theory, but as a man in his 40s and has been doing this for a while, and on my 4th piece of Naim gear... I’ll stick with the all-in-one. YMMV

Yes it does  ????

HiFiman posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bart posted:

My theory might be that for the XS series target audience in 2018, such people might be interested more in an all-in-one solution vs. separates, and might include network connectivity as a must-have in home audio.  

This theory goes something like . . . those who are entering the 'quality home sound market' are of an age that they grew up with iPods and have been using Spotify or other streaming services for a while.  They would view access to online streaming as an essential built-in, not a bolt-on, feature.

In other words, the population of people who want to enter the hi fi world with 20th century style separates may well be too small to support much of a market.

If one know the sales figures for different products it would be easier to predict.

I suspect XP5XS didn’t have great sales, as it gave such a marginal improvement (at least on my ND5XS) as to be not with the cost, whereas I suspect ND5XS still has reasonably strong sales as an entry-level quality streamer for people who want or already have ‘separates’ system, whether or not already including Naim.

I use a XP5xs on my 272, sounds great and made a very nice improvement cost me a grand for my ex demo unit.

The removal of the XP5 changes the dynamics of the sound the bass is not as deep (trust me I notice these things as I run Proac Tab10) soundstage not as wide and detail takes a hit.

Its a shame Naim stopped producing the XP5 as the next PSU is getting close to four grand, is it twice as good I doubt it.

I guess that the effect with 272 being more than with ND5XS is due to it being a preamp as well. So perhaps it had a place.

(Mine was also ex dem, at same price, and believe me, with my IMF RSPM speakers I’d have noticed if the bass changed! I sold it on and got a Hugo for a couple of hundred £ more replacing the ND5XSs DAC, and the improvement was far greater, with a more natural sound.)

Callas01 posted:

Kacper posted:

Star can’t be upgraded (with the power supplier) and xs series has this opportunity. I wouldn’t exchange my entire xs system for Star... maybe for SuperNait 2  but never for all-in-one unit 

Yes because after buying a $3500 Integrated amp I want to spend $2k more on a fvcking power supply, plus $3600 on a CD player(?) and $4500 on an outdated network streamer? 

Ill get the $5500 all-in-one that sounds just as good and saves me $8k. I owned the XS and wouldn’t “go backwards” to it again. Almost bought a SN at on point also, but went Uniti instead. I will say the original Uniti line sounded too dry and digital, but the current line sounds rich and much more analog. IMO 

I agree with Bart’s theory, but as a man in his 40s and has been doing this for a while, and on my 4th piece of Naim gear... I’ll stick with the all-in-one. YMMV

"My" theory isn't limited to the "younger generation."  I have zero desire to have a multi-box system that takes up real estate in my living room.  The right-sounding onebox solution would be FINE with me.  I've not auditioned the most recent Uniti boxes (doubt there is one in my area to listen to) and I'm not all that motivated to sell off what I have.  I have what I have and it sounds great so it's OK for now.  When I move home / downsize it likely will change.

With one or two posts denigrating the XP5XS, I feel obliged to speak up in its defence. I had one on my nDAC and tried it against a XPS2. I felt the XP5XS gave 80% of the performance uplift given by the XP2 but at half the cost. This enabled to buy two, using the other as an external PSU on my CDX2. While I now have a 555PSDR on my nDAC, the second XP5XS still performs well on my CDX2.  At its modest price point I think the XP5XS represented excellent VFM.    

MDS posted:

 I felt the XP5XS gave 80% of the performance uplift given by the XP2 but at half the cost.

Not really spectacular — thought decreasing returns are common place when climbing up the hifi ladder...

Ok. Let try to put it another way.  On scale of performance improvement of putting a PSU on a bare nDAC I thought the XPS2 scored 10 whereas the XP5XS scored 8.  However, and this is the important point about relativity, I would score the 555PSDR as 25.  And the XPS2 is twice the price of the XP5XS and the 555PSDR four times the price.  Decreasing returns I was prepared to pay for in the case of the 555PS but not for XPS2.

Does that help? 

And when I tried it on ND5XS if bare ND5 is 10 then XP5XS raised it to 10.5 (i.e. adding 0.5). Hugo added 10, so ND5XS + Hugo was 20.

All a  bit meaningless, though, as it is far too subjective for numeric scoring in isolation.

Innocent Bystander posted:

And when I tried it on ND5XS if bare ND5 is 10 then XP5XS raised it to 10.5 (i.e. adding 0.5). Hugo added 10, so ND5XS + Hugo was 20.

All a  bit meaningless, though, as it is far too subjective for numeric scoring in isolation.

I guess an XPS2 on your ND5XS would score 12

The XP5XS offers exceptional value when used with the 272, I may stretch to a 555 in the future but for now the tunes are flowing and that is all what counts.

HiFiman posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

And when I tried it on ND5XS if bare ND5 is 10 then XP5XS raised it to 10.5 (i.e. adding 0.5). Hugo added 10, so ND5XS + Hugo was 20.

All a  bit meaningless, though, as it is far too subjective for numeric scoring in isolation.

I guess an XPS2 on your ND5XS would score 12

The XP5XS offers exceptional value when used with the 272, I may stretch to a 555 in the future but for now the tunes are flowing and that is all what counts.

Maybe 12 ...or 20: no idea as I didn’t try, having moved the ND5XS on some months after adding Hugo.