move on from mac mini

Hi

You can discount Auralic as they don't support Andriod. Innous is an option but have a look at Vortexbox and microrendu. I'm not allowed to give you specific website links but there's a very helpful guy called Martin at an online "audiostore".

Good luck

Dave

I am a fellow MM/Audirvana user, loving the sound quality but irritated and frustrated by Audirvana’s lack of facility to browse/search by file structure (to resolve metadata limitations). I  am keeping my eyes open for other possibilities, either to replace A+ on the MM if I can find as good a sounding renderer, or to replace the whole thing when MM reaches end of life - mine is ‘late2012’ model, running OSX 10.11.6 (El Capitan), working perfectly at present and I would hope for many more years, as it is indeed only 5 years old now.

Obvious possibilities for a store-rendererthat I would want to compare are Melco (I once did a very brief comparison of N1A against my MM/A into Dave DAC and found it indistinguishable), Innuos Zenith (someone on here did an in-depth comparison with N1A a year or two ago and preferred the Zenith) and Uniti Core. Alternative may be something around the microRendu, provided that it is very clear what is needed to set up, as I just want something that works, not averse to diy assembly but not into lots of experimenting (if you haven’t come across, see The Hugo of streaming thread).

BTW, although I have the Audirvana control app on a more recent iPad, I usually use VNC virtual desktop to control A+, which can run on any machine: I have it on that iPad, a Mk1 iPad that otherwise is redundant - a perfect use for it - and on my Windows laptop. The VNC interface takes a bit of getting used to on a touchscreen tablet, but I like it because I can readily switch between A+ and Finder, allowing me to browse/search by my music file structure and drag-drop files into Audievana’s playing list, which though a bit clunky is an effective work-around for the lack of such facility in A+, which struggles with some of my poor/inconsistent metadata.

I went from MM/optical cable/Naim DAC (with XPS2) to Melco/HiFace/Naim DAC (with XPS2)

To my rears this upgrade brought a major SQ improvement.

Thanks i suppose the max I want to spend is less than £1000- I should have said that...

alainbil posted:

I went from MM/optical cable/Naim DAC (with XPS2) to Melco/HiFace/Naim DAC (with XPS2)

To my rears this upgrade brought a major SQ improvement.

Was that with Audirvana? Regardless, using optical out was using the Apple sound card, so quality limited at least by that. Audirvana enables that to be bypassed, as it does when set up fully optimised.

It was with Audirvana.

What do you mean by "using the Apple Sound Card" ?

Using the optical out with Audirvana involves no resmpling and no digital to analog conversion by the mac .

sjw posted:

Thanks i suppose the max I want to spend is less than £1000- I should have said that...

There are several options open to you.

Assumming you are all digital one option would be to use the DAC-V1 as a pre-amp feeding the NAP200. The NAC 202 and NAPSC would then become redundant and possibly fund your new front end.

Talk to Martin in the morning. Trust me.

Dave

PS see my profile.

thanks but there's the cd5x and a turntable so cant get rid of the 202

will investigate your fella

https://www.gottabemobile.com/...with-android-remote/

Have you considered just controlling the Mac from your Android devices? It will perhaps be a bit more clunky than from a iXxxx, but seems doable.

Innocent Bystander posted:

alainbil posted:

I went from MM/optical cable/Naim DAC (with XPS2) to Melco/HiFace/Naim DAC (with XPS2)

To my rears this upgrade brought a major SQ improvement.

Was that with Audirvana? Regardless, using optical out was using the Apple sound card, so quality limited at least by that. Audirvana enables that to be bypassed, as it does when set up fully optimised.

I used a Mac Mini, optimised for sound quality output, for a while. I used Audirvana but then went on to Amarra Symphony with iRC Dirac room correction, feeding my Chord QBD DAC via USB. A Melco N1A was a significant improvement, even without the room correction, the N1Z even more so. Using my N1Z in my second system gave a more modest improvement, not really enough to justify the purchase price. So like all these devices, they're very system-dependent.

sjw posted:

At the moment I'm on a mac mini and audirvana which is fine but the mac mini is now 6 years old and I've moved onto android phones and tablets. Theres an old ipad thats getting slower and i dont want to buy more Apple ipads or phones. 

Looking forward i'd like something that gives me similar quality and good app that I can control with android and was hoping for some ideas - INNUOS mini /ARCAM r/Auralic? I've not the budget for a naim streamer

CD5XS /nac 202/200/napsc/ovator 400 and a Dac V1

.  thanks!

Have you tried a Raspberry Pi running MinimServer and upmpdcli? Control point on android devices is BubbleUPnP. Sound quality wise it could be comparable to your current system but give you a better UI. If the V1 has a SPDIF input, it could be worth putting a DigiOne on the top of the RPi. Magna is also offering a single box server/renderer (Magna Manu music streamer) based on a Raspberry Pi with linear power supply and SPDIF output. Or just wait until the mac mini dies. I would not invest in Innuos, Arcam, Auralic, Aurender or Naim servers at this point.

alainbil posted:

It was with Audirvana.

What do you mean by "using the Apple Sound Card" ?

Using the optical out with Audirvana involves no resmpling and no digital to analog conversion by the mac .

Nothing to do with resampling or ADC, but it is using more of the Mac's circuitry and driver software,. Audirvana's manual talks about this when discussing sound quality under direct mode and integer mode, recommended for best sound quality. (Also, a paper  by Audirvana's writer, called beyond bit-‐perfect specifically criticises the Mac's optical output for its jitter, but that may be irrelevan with an asynchronous DAC.) The best sound quality is via a dedicated USB bus output, with everything else optimised, but with good RF isolation between it and the DAC unless the DAC itself has exemplary rejection.

tonym posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

alainbil posted:

I went from MM/optical cable/Naim DAC (with XPS2) to Melco/HiFace/Naim DAC (with XPS2)

To my rears this upgrade brought a major SQ improvement.

Was that with Audirvana? Regardless, using optical out was using the Apple sound card, so quality limited at least by that. Audirvana enables that to be bypassed, as it does when set up fully optimised.

I used a Mac Mini, optimised for sound quality output, for a while. I used Audirvana but then went on to Amarra Symphony with iRC Dirac room correction, feeding my Chord QBD DAC via USB. A Melco N1A was a significant improvement, even without the room correction, the N1Z even more so. Using my N1Z in my second system gave a more modest improvement, not really enough to justify the purchase price. So like all these devices, they're very system-dependent.

And my comparison of MM/A with Melco N1A was into Dave, which I understand has very high RF rejection, so that could have been a significant factor. I don’t say there was no difference at all, as it was a very brief comparison at the end of a comparison of Chord DACs, but any difference was certainly not immediately evident. 

Interestingly I didn’t get on with Dirac when I tried it with Audirvana, as it seemed to kill the sound - but my room is a problem one, and that was before doing detailed analysis and rearranging both speaker and listening positions, so I suspect it was trying to do too much.

My budget is nowhere near a melco and whilst I like the idea of rasberry pi the technical knowledge required is just way beyond me. Having read replies I suppose I'm looking at 

Innuos mini arcam or now vortexbox which have more realistic pricing but what are people experiences of using these? needs to be something thats android compatible good interface and better than sonos connect...

thanks1!

Apparently some of the options are too expensive for you and all other options are making your musical experience quite technical. So why not straight forward. A QNAP to store the music on with a normal music server installed on it, combined with the use of an iPad, iPad mini or even iPhone to control your music play.

I should have made all considerations far clearer at the start but i don't want to replace the apple ipad and want to use android app.

Its not my fault I dont want to throw £2-3000 at this or that my technical ability is poor. Setting up a raspberry pi solution is beyond me I'm afraid

So I would like best quality under £1000

Android app and easy set up and use . 

Internet radio and ability to play spotify

What about Unitiqute 2 as a source it will intergrate well with your existing system and can be found for around £700 on the used market. 

Thats a good idea but I'd be paying for an unused amp and Dac bit. Its also older and I'm looking future forward. I'll pop to dealers too for some ideas

Thanks

As I suggested in an earlier post, you can control Audirvana on Mac Mini with VLC software (free) from an android device. Your MM is only 6 years old and there’s no reason to assume it won’t carry on for some years to come, during which you can save towards an eventual replacement.

You could try Roon on the MM, though it might not quite match A+ for sound quality (however it is said to have been improving): it is on free trial available and a lifetime subscription, equivalent to buying it, costs under half your budget IIRC. Some people love it’s interface, but I’ve no idea about Spotify. (But you can Spotify direct from MM itself.)

Alternatively keeping MM, maybe assess whether it would work to sell DAC and preamp and get a secondhand 272? 

Otherwise if you don’t want to keep MM, expecting a store and renderer giving sound quality as good as A+ for under £1000 without a significant diy element dictates finding an alternative store and alternative renderer, or other secondhand solution.

If you don’t want to keep MM and don’t want secondhand, then you’re probably looking at something like your own original suggestions, for which unless anyone has direct experience you’ll have to assess for yourself whether sound quality is adequate.

If you do go and see a dealer, be aware that they have a tendency to rubbish computer-based solutions, even when they don’t know the specifics, so do take your MM, any RF isolator you use and DAC with you if you might audition anything there.

Innocent Bystander posted:

tonym posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

alainbil posted:

I went from MM/optical cable/Naim DAC (with XPS2) to Melco/HiFace/Naim DAC (with XPS2)

To my rears this upgrade brought a major SQ improvement.

Was that with Audirvana? Regardless, using optical out was using the Apple sound card, so quality limited at least by that. Audirvana enables that to be bypassed, as it does when set up fully optimised.

I used a Mac Mini, optimised for sound quality output, for a while. I used Audirvana but then went on to Amarra Symphony with iRC Dirac room correction, feeding my Chord QBD DAC via USB. A Melco N1A was a significant improvement, even without the room correction, the N1Z even more so. Using my N1Z in my second system gave a more modest improvement, not really enough to justify the purchase price. So like all these devices, they're very system-dependent.

And my comparison of MM/A with Melco N1A was into Dave, which I understand has very high RF rejection, so that could have been a significant factor. I don’t say there was no difference at all, as it was a very brief comparison at the end of a comparison of Chord DACs, but any difference was certainly not immediately evident. 

Interestingly I didn’t get on with Dirac when I tried it with Audirvana, as it seemed to kill the sound - but my room is a problem one, and that was before doing detailed analysis and rearranging both speaker and listening positions, so I suspect it was trying to do too much.

Forgot to add - I did try my trusty old Mini into my DAVE recently out of interest, and the difference the Melco makes over the Mini's even more pronounced. On the subject of Dirac, when I first used it I had the advantage of having it set up by an experienced user, a fellow forum member. Watching what he did in comparison with the instructions I would have followed was quite an education. I've since used Dirac on my original 7.1 surround system using a MniDSP box & once set up it was great. However, it took me ages and umpteen iterations to get it to sound right. I have set up Amarra iRC in my second system, but there I tend to prefer Audirvana+, it seems more reliable.

tonym posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

tonym posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

alainbil posted:

I went from MM/optical cable/Naim DAC (with XPS2) to Melco/HiFace/Naim DAC (with XPS2)

To my rears this upgrade brought a major SQ improvement.

Was that with Audirvana? Regardless, using optical out was using the Apple sound card, so quality limited at least by that. Audirvana enables that to be bypassed, as it does when set up fully optimised.

I used a Mac Mini, optimised for sound quality output, for a while. I used Audirvana but then went on to Amarra Symphony with iRC Dirac room correction, feeding my Chord QBD DAC via USB. A Melco N1A was a significant improvement, even without the room correction, the N1Z even more so. Using my N1Z in my second system gave a more modest improvement, not really enough to justify the purchase price. So like all these devices, they're very system-dependent.

And my comparison of MM/A with Melco N1A was into Dave, which I understand has very high RF rejection, so that could have been a significant factor. I don’t say there was no difference at all, as it was a very brief comparison at the end of a comparison of Chord DACs, but any difference was certainly not immediately evident. 

Interestingly I didn’t get on with Dirac when I tried it with Audirvana, as it seemed to kill the sound - but my room is a problem one, and that was before doing detailed analysis and rearranging both speaker and listening positions, so I suspect it was trying to do too much.

Forgot to add - I did try my trusty old Mini into my DAVE recently out of interest, and the difference the Melco makes over the Mini's even more pronounced. ...

Very nice and simple experiment, thanks for reporting! Was the Mac Mini powered by a linear PSU? I understand that both the Melco and the MM were connected to the Dave via USB, right? In this case, your findings seem to suggest that the USB output of the MM is rather poor or that the capabilities of the Dave to reject electromagnetic radiation are in fact quite limited. Or am I missing something?

sjw posted:

Thats a good idea but I'd be paying for an unused amp and Dac bit. Its also older and I'm looking future forward. I'll pop to dealers too for some ideas

Thanks

Frankly speaking I think that it would be rather premature to go to a dealer in your situation. I would wait until I know precisely what I want to demo. But it's your money, of course! Good luck, nbpf

tonym posted:

Forgot to add - I did try my trusty old Mini into my DAVE recently out of interest, and the difference the Melco makes over the Mini's even more pronounced. On the subject of Dirac, when I first used it I had the advantage of having it set up by an experienced user, a fellow forum member. Watching what he did in comparison with the instructions I would have followed was quite an education. I've since used Dirac on my original 7.1 surround system using a MniDSP box & once set up it was great. However, it took me ages and umpteen iterations to get it to sound right. I have set up Amarra iRC in my second system, but there I tend to prefer Audirvana+, it seems more reliable.

Interesting. Given that my brief comparison of MM/A and N1A into Dave revealed no immediately apparent differences, this  suggests something very different with your MM/A and mine, or the Melco I tried and yours - unfortunately I doubt we’ll ever know which.