Expensive Holiday

That sounds very cheap. Are you really taking 4 kids? THE USA sucks money out of me whenever I go. But having said that I have just costed a two week road trip round the bottom of france at 7000 euros this summer (which is supposed to be a cheap holiday)

Spending money on experiences rather than on things is a great thing to do. Our memories of the experiences will increase our satisfaction and happiness over time, whereas our fascination with new, shiny baubles, decreases as we soon look to the next acquisition. 

Years ago, we had a 'road trip' holiday, and drove from Las Vegas to LA, up the coast to SF, and back down via Yosemite, Death Valley, and back to Vegas. It was probably the best family holiday we've had, with lots of highlights - sea kayaking in Monterey Bay, camping in the Mojave desert, arriving in SF on Halloween (!) and lots more. We took tents and hired a large car, and only used hotels when we were in the cities. It didn't cost anything like as much as £15000. 

Last time we've been to the USA, the holiday costed about 7000 euros. This was having 'only' 2 kids.

Since we have young kids (the youngest is <2) I prefer a direct flight. Our current arrangement consists of 6 KLM tickets - direct flight, 4 hotel nights, camper rent - unlimited, insurances. It is also in the expensive season - we are bound by school holidays.

winkyincanada posted:

Spending money on experiences rather than on things is a great thing to do. Our memories of the experiences will increase our satisfaction and happiness over time, whereas our fascination with new, shiny baubles, decreases as we soon look to the next acquisition. 

I know a nice, small good restaurant in Stockholm which I won't forget for a good reason. I also have experienced the absence of 'gastronomy' in India last year, generally speaking. At least their understanding was different from mine.

From SF as a base I'd suggest Yosimite (we rented a lodge for a couple of nights) and a drive down the Pacific Coast highway. We did those in a loop from LA, visiting friends in SF and then on down to San Diego, visiting more friends. It was some years ago and at the time I was spending a couple of weeks a month out there on business. Paid for the flights in airmiles and hotels mostly in reward points. Ended up doing a couple of days consulting and made a profit on the trip!

A more recent trip, about 6 years ago, again with four of us, started in Seattle, then Aberdeen, Yellowstone, Salt Lake City, Moab, Vegas, Phoenix, San Diego cost about £10k all in. Flights to from Belfast to Seattle and back from SD were £4k of that. 23 nights with about half that on reward points.

Willy.

Yup 100% for a road trip.   First there is a lot to do in & around SF,  far far too much to write about here,  www search & guidebooks are best for that;  but my favourites are.    I try to stay somewhere around the waterfront (easier parking) & although I have a car I try to use cable cars & bus transport.  Around the waterfront is like an out of the city mini SF with the sights, smells (sea lions) & food nightlife of Pier 39,  & a ritual I do each time I'm town is walk from waterfront up to & walk up Lombard St  (visit & ol' buddy en route)     Go north to the winelands & the redwoods,  nearest (1hr) is Muir Woods for the coast redwood (Sequoia)  & further north for the giant redwoods (not that the coast redwoods are small)   

Road trip to Monterey Bay,  take to coast road or a lot faster if you need it is highway I5 to LA,  linger a while in LA drive to & walk around Hollywood,  drive down Sunset,  a few stops to goggle at the many must see places enroute to the coast. & Santa Monica & on to Venice Beach.     From LA I normally go to friends in Palm Springs (its a winter resort & summer time its part closed)  Then across Joshua Tree & Mojave DEserts to Las Vegas,  its a one or two night 'must see' even if you are not interested in gambling.  FRom LV a day trip or an overnight to the Hoover Dam & Grand Canyon.     Then from LV on to Death Valley.  On to Yosemite & surrounds & then back to SF.   The road trip part would take me 2 weeks.   

Given that we're all relatively average here (no Branson's lurking in the background), 15,000 euro is a ludicrous amount of money for 20 days entertaining imo. 750 euro per day? I'd want to be flying in a Spitfire for that amount. I'd sooner enjoy every day of my life rather than waste it in one blast. Las Vegas is a dump and to spend money just to say "I've seen it" is not my cuppa.

If I had 20 days to spend in the US, I'd not spend a lot of it driving. A semi-loaded backroads cycle tour would be my first preference, but would also consider to perhaps target 2 places and have an experience at each. 5 or 6 days hiking in the Yosemite, 5 or 6 days on a sea kayak trip in Baja, Northern California, Oregon or Washington. The rest of the days sprinkled on transfers and city-time. A campervan or RV for 20 days sounds like hell to me. And not just the driving.

Interesting how different people view the cost. I will be taking an expensive holiday this year, in the Indian Ocean - and the moment you fly long haul costs can certainly mount, especially if you want direct flights, which ours are also (from UK).Total cost of Ardbeg’s €15,000 is quite a bit more than ours ...however the cost per person of Ardbeg’s holiday is actually about half of mine, so on that basis doesn’t seem bad at all. (However I’m not sure that 15k includes food etc, whereas my cost has budgeted for that). 

Also of course different people want different things out of their holidays - food, sights, relaxation, adventure, culture, solitude, highlife, nature, new experiences, and any combination thereof - exactly as we all have different tastes in music, and indeed its presentation!

I've been to the US twice. Both were coast-to-coast trips by train. Both were memorable for (very) different reasons and I thoroughly enjoyed both. 

In my universe, both were pricey considering it was just two of us and no kids but no regrets.

steve

If you would like any recommendations (intros even) to wineries in Napa/Sonoma, then let me know and I will do my best. Not everyone's thing, so I won't unless you're interested.

Do not ignore Sausalito, on the north side of the Golden Gate Bridge, for its views of the Bay/City (and the bridge) as well as some of the best restaurants in California. We never got to Alcatraz, but I am told it is well worth it (but visiting days are limited, so plan this in advance).

Bolinas (apparently where Hitchcock filmed 'The Birds') is so bizarrely parochial the locals remove the road-signs pointing to it every time there council put them up, although presumably GPS has spoiled that. Smiley's Hotel (true goldrush history here) is the only place in the world you can get the utterly compelling Sean Thackrey's wines poured by the glass - which is almost worth the trip in its own right!

South of SF is Big Sur which is excellent driving and scenery (redwoods!) as far as Monterey Bay, which is where the warm ocean waters start (therefore no sharks!) and Santa Cruz - where The Lost Boys was set/filmed - with its rickety oldest-wooden-rollercoaster-in-the-world,  is lovely. Right the way around to Salinas and Carmel, then inland towards Yosemite. Great places to stay around Mariposa.

Get as far north as Hopback for one of the world's most excellent (original) craft breweries, and a cute town, near the Redwood forests.

Unless it's an essential, definitely scrub Las Vegas (for reasons stated above) and go instead north-east to Lake Tahoe, which is easily within reach and not that much of a drive (and a beautiful drive at that). The Nevada side has all the blingy casino stuff you/anyone could want, while the California side and the lake itself, is an oasis of lovely places to eat, stay, walk, swim (in summer, although it's, er, refreshingly cold year-round) and everything else outdoors-y.  

If your budget can possibly run to it, a hot air ballon ride is a wonderful experience and the Napa Valley has to be one of the best places on earth to do so (but they are expensive).

Very envious! California is great - especially once you get away from the absolutely touristy stuff.

Alcatraz Is definitely worth a visit - get the headset too. It's an experience.

I'd also visit Yosemite. You can walk all the way to the top of half dome and sit with your legs dangling over the edge! We did it just after the ropes had come down, which I reckon made it easier, but there are artificial steps when the ropes are up.

Sequoia national park is worth a visit as is Joshua Tree (as featured on the LP sleeve of the U2 album). The latter is an unusual sight for sure.

As the others have said, Las Vegas is not somewhere I enjoyed, although we did go on the scariest roller coaster I've ever been on.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Interesting how different people view the cost. I will be taking an expensive holiday this year, in the Indian Ocean - and the moment you fly long haul costs can certainly mount, especially if you want direct flights, which ours are also (from UK).Total cost of Ardbeg’s €15,000 is quite a bit more than ours ...however the cost per person of Ardbeg’s holiday is actually about half of mine, so on that basis doesn’t seem bad at all. (However I’m not sure that 15k includes food etc, whereas my cost has budgeted for that). 

Also of course different people want different things out of their holidays - food, sights, relaxation, adventure, culture, solitude, highlife, nature, new experiences, and any combination thereof - exactly as we all have different tastes in music, and indeed its presentation!

Its €10000 for (direct) flights, camper, insurances, some hotel nights and airport shuttles. The remaining €5K is to be spend. Hopefully south of €5K, but I have set my 'emotional' limit to €5K. Lets see. I don't think we would spend more than that, we are normally not big spenders - that's why this trip is feasible for us - we work too much to spend the money.

The more I think about this hideous thing, the more I start to love it. It's a pretty good idea since this would indeed - as Winky says - create a hopefully nice memory. The kids are growing fast and in a few years we will have two grumpy teenagers around.

We also have some people to visit there. Friends of us migrated two years ago to the bay area to work for that big database company and also the kids go along well. My first real manager lives in the bay area and I'm going to contact him to meet up - if he likes. He gave me an opportunity 17 years ago and I'd like to say thanks.

... and I've been there many times when I worked for my first employer.

rodwsmith posted:

If you would like any recommendations (intros even) to wineries in Napa/Sonoma, then let me know and I will do my best. Not everyone's thing, so I won't unless you're interested.

Do not ignore Sausalito, on the north side of the Golden Gate Bridge, for its views of the Bay/City (and the bridge) as well as some of the best restaurants in California. We never got to Alcatraz, but I am told it is well worth it (but visiting days are limited, so plan this in advance).

Bolinas (apparently where Hitchcock filmed 'The Birds') is so bizarrely parochial the locals remove the road-signs pointing to it every time there council put them up, although presumably GPS has spoiled that. Smiley's Hotel (true goldrush history here) is the only place in the world you can get the utterly compelling Sean Thackrey's wines poured by the glass - which is almost worth the trip in its own right!

South of SF is Big Sur which is excellent driving and scenery (redwoods!) as far as Monterey Bay, which is where the warm ocean waters start (therefore no sharks!) and Santa Cruz - where The Lost Boys was set/filmed - with its rickety oldest-wooden-rollercoaster-in-the-world,  is lovely. Right the way around to Salinas and Carmel, then inland towards Yosemite. Great places to stay around Mariposa.

Get as far north as Hopback for one of the world's most excellent (original) craft breweries, and a cute town, near the Redwood forests.

Unless it's an essential, definitely scrub Las Vegas (for reasons stated above) and go instead north-east to Lake Tahoe, which is easily within reach and not that much of a drive (and a beautiful drive at that). The Nevada side has all the blingy casino stuff you/anyone could want, while the California side and the lake itself, is an oasis of lovely places to eat, stay, walk, swim (in summer, although it's, er, refreshingly cold year-round) and everything else outdoors-y.  

If your budget can possibly run to it, a hot air ballon ride is a wonderful experience and the Napa Valley has to be one of the best places on earth to do so (but they are expensive).

Very envious! California is great - especially once you get away from the absolutely touristy stuff.

Thanks rodwsmith. Regarding the wineries, I'm the only winedrinker of the family so I don't think I please them with a tour in the wineries - unfortunately. But we will buy some Napa valley wines for sure.

When I was working for a company in Redwood City, I used to do the coastal drive (the '1') and cross the hills and watch the immense Redwoods. Likely I will do this again and show the family.

I think we will ignore Las Vegas - I've managed to avoid business trips - but I will need to travel there somewhere in the future. Won't bother the family with that. I will check out your recommendations.

If you intend to head South into California, bear in mind that it can be blisteringly hot in mid summer, and especially if camping, things can get very uncomfortable. We went in Autumn, and the heat was quite bearable - then suddenly, heading up to SF, it gets cool and humid. 

The circuit of California I mentioned above, we did in 2 weeks. It was more driving that I would have liked - 3 weeks would have been about right.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_66

winkyincanada posted:

If I had 20 days to spend in the US, I'd not spend a lot of it driving. A semi-loaded backroads cycle tour would be my first preference, but would also consider to perhaps target 2 places and have an experience at each. 5 or 6 days hiking in the Yosemite, 5 or 6 days on a sea kayak trip in Baja, Northern California, Oregon or Washington. The rest of the days sprinkled on transfers and city-time. A campervan or RV for 20 days sounds like hell to me. And not just the driving.

You need to experience the "Great American Road-Trip" 

count.d posted:

Given that we're all relatively average here (no Branson's lurking in the background), 15,000 euro is a ludicrous amount of money for 20 days entertaining imo. 750 euro per day? I'd want to be flying in a Spitfire for that amount. I'd sooner enjoy every day of my life rather than waste it in one blast. Las Vegas is a dump and to spend money just to say "I've seen it" is not my cuppa.

Kind of sad worldview. Many of my fondest memories of my youth relate to trips taken with my family. Some of the best memories I have with my kids are the trips we've taken together.

Kevin Richardson posted:

winkyincanada posted:

If I had 20 days to spend in the US, I'd not spend a lot of it driving. A semi-loaded backroads cycle tour would be my first preference, but would also consider to perhaps target 2 places and have an experience at each. 5 or 6 days hiking in the Yosemite, 5 or 6 days on a sea kayak trip in Baja, Northern California, Oregon or Washington. The rest of the days sprinkled on transfers and city-time. A campervan or RV for 20 days sounds like hell to me. And not just the driving.

You need to experience the "Great American Road-Trip" 

I just hate being in a car too much to really enjoy a road trip. No matter how nice the view out of the car window, I just want to stop, get out, ride my bike or walk through the world. Driving through a place is like watching it on television. Every car trip has me counting down the time until it is done. A necessary evil for me.

Kevin Richardson posted:

count.d posted:

Given that we're all relatively average here (no Branson's lurking in the background), 15,000 euro is a ludicrous amount of money for 20 days entertaining imo. 750 euro per day? I'd want to be flying in a Spitfire for that amount. I'd sooner enjoy every day of my life rather than waste it in one blast. Las Vegas is a dump and to spend money just to say "I've seen it" is not my cuppa.

Kind of sad worldview. Many of my fondest memories of my youth relate to trips taken with my family. Some of the best memories I have with my kids are the trips we've taken together.

I agree that fond memories come from experiences, rather than the acquisition of stuff, but experiences can be diminished by the "opportunity cost". A fabulous meal in a great restaurant can be less-than-enjoyable if the cost is too high. "Too high" is of course relative. What is pocket change of a crypto-investor can be a mortgage payment for the rest of us.

Kevin Richardson posted:

count.d posted:

Given that we're all relatively average here (no Branson's lurking in the background), 15,000 euro is a ludicrous amount of money for 20 days entertaining imo. 750 euro per day? I'd want to be flying in a Spitfire for that amount. I'd sooner enjoy every day of my life rather than waste it in one blast. Las Vegas is a dump and to spend money just to say "I've seen it" is not my cuppa.

Kind of sad worldview. Many of my fondest memories of my youth relate to trips taken with my family. Some of the best memories I have with my kids are the trips we've taken together.

Many of my fondest memories relate to trips with my family, but they didn't (or need to) cost 15,000 euro. As Winky has said, there are many ways to properly experience the world without forking out loads of dosh to superficially enjoy yourself.

count.d posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

count.d posted:

Given that we're all relatively average here (no Branson's lurking in the background), 15,000 euro is a ludicrous amount of money for 20 days entertaining imo. 750 euro per day? I'd want to be flying in a Spitfire for that amount. I'd sooner enjoy every day of my life rather than waste it in one blast. Las Vegas is a dump and to spend money just to say "I've seen it" is not my cuppa.

Kind of sad worldview. Many of my fondest memories of my youth relate to trips taken with my family. Some of the best memories I have with my kids are the trips we've taken together.

Many of my fondest memories relate to trips with my family, but they didn't (or need to) cost 15,000 euro. As Winky has said, there are many ways to properly experience the world without forking out loads of dosh to superficially enjoy yourself.

Were they for 6 people for 3 weeks seeing far-off foreign countries?

I find the implied criticism of some of these posts rather unjustified - we all have different amounts of disposable income, and are entirely free to spend how we choose. Maybe different if people were making suggestions for practical ways of saving money while achieving the same, but that does not seem to be what the comments suggest.

Innocent Bystander posted:

count.d posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

count.d posted:

Given that we're all relatively average here (no Branson's lurking in the background), 15,000 euro is a ludicrous amount of money for 20 days entertaining imo. 750 euro per day? I'd want to be flying in a Spitfire for that amount. I'd sooner enjoy every day of my life rather than waste it in one blast. Las Vegas is a dump and to spend money just to say "I've seen it" is not my cuppa.

Kind of sad worldview. Many of my fondest memories of my youth relate to trips taken with my family. Some of the best memories I have with my kids are the trips we've taken together.

Many of my fondest memories relate to trips with my family, but they didn't (or need to) cost 15,000 euro. As Winky has said, there are many ways to properly experience the world without forking out loads of dosh to superficially enjoy yourself.

Were they for 6 people for 3 weeks seeing far-off foreign countries?

I find the implied criticism of some of these posts rather unjustified - we all have different amounts of disposable income, and are entirely free to spend how we choose. Maybe different if people were making suggestions for practical ways of saving money while achieving the same, but that does not seem to be what the comments suggest.

IB, no worries.

We could do the holiday much cheaper by choosing a 2 or 3 leg flight and take a random rental car / van / camper in the USA. The difficulty we have, is that we also bring a 1 and 4 yr old. If they were the only kids, we could manage it (been to Zimbabwe with a 1 and 3 yr old 7 yrs ago including many step-overs). But we bring 4 kids - and I prefer to stay in control. They are pretty 'dynamic'. So the direct flight is a must-do for me.

Budget flights would save about Euro 3000.

If it was just me or me and my wife, my frequent flyer points would suffice for a large amount of the tickets and we would rent the smallest car and be very close together.

Ah! That must be why we have 4 kids now ...

Oops what did I write?

(sorry)

count.d posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

count.d posted:

Given that we're all relatively average here (no Branson's lurking in the background), 15,000 euro is a ludicrous amount of money for 20 days entertaining imo. 750 euro per day? I'd want to be flying in a Spitfire for that amount. I'd sooner enjoy every day of my life rather than waste it in one blast. Las Vegas is a dump and to spend money just to say "I've seen it" is not my cuppa.

Kind of sad worldview. Many of my fondest memories of my youth relate to trips taken with my family. Some of the best memories I have with my kids are the trips we've taken together.

Many of my fondest memories relate to trips with my family, but they didn't (or need to) cost 15,000 euro. As Winky has said, there are many ways to properly experience the world without forking out loads of dosh to superficially enjoy yourself.

My comments had nothing to do with the cost, but rather the notion that a significant portion of the trip would be spent driving.