What Streaming System can perform better than a CDX2 + XPSDR

Hi Phil, I find rock really suits the CDX2, and some singers such as Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash where the slightly warm presentation of the X2 helps to fill out vocals which  when recorded, due to their age,  were slightly thin..

Regarding DAVE, it was good but I wasn’t bowled over.. and for that money I would need to be. I might revisit before too long... but right really enjoying my setup, and my 552 is still rollercoasting to some extent... so no desire to change things at present...

Lustening to Johnny Cash’s Folsom Prison right now on the NDX/Hugo into 552 and absolutely enjoying one of my fave albums ... you imagine  you are at that prison with the other prisoners enjoying the music and interaction...

I once went from a CDX2 to a CDS3. Loved it. To my surprise I found my bare NDX to be just as good as my CDS3/XPS DR. The CDS3 (head) was subsequently sold. No regrets. 

cdboy posted:

I once went from a CDX2 to a CDS3. Loved it. To my surprise I found my bare NDX to be just as good as my CDS3/XPS DR. The CDS3 (head) was subsequently sold. No regrets. 

@cdboy Thanks for your feedback. What kinds of music do you listen to and what sort of changes did you notice on your journey to the NDX?

It seems that the NDX + XPSDR is well worth trying. I have a UsedCisco 2960 8tc on the way from Germany (hope they deliver a good one as I have not heard of them before) now at a cost of 64€ and AQ Pearl Ethernet cables on loan. 

Phil

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Phil, I find rock really suits the CDX2, and some singers such as Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash where the slightly warm presentation of the X2 helps to fill out vocals which  when recorded, due to their age,  were slightly thin..

Regarding DAVE, it was good but I wasn’t bowled over.. and for that money I would need to be. I might revisit before too long... but right really enjoying my setup, and my 552 is still rollercoasting to some extent... so no desire to change things at present...

Lustening to Johnny Cash’s Folsom Prison right now on the NDX/Hugo into 552 and absolutely enjoying one of my fave albums ... you imagine  you are at that prison with the other prisoners enjoying the music and interaction...

Simon, thanks for the insights. As you use the Hugo I suppose your NDX doesn’t use a power supply. What cable do you use between the (spdif?) output of the NDX and the Hugo? 

In my case I already have an XPSDR which I can either use on the NDX or I can use it on the nDAC bypassing as you do the NDX DAC. Any thoughts? I shall try it on the NDX though.

Phil

Hi Phil, I use a Naim DC1 cable.. on balance I find it sounds best...as far as your XPSDR, definitely add to NDAC... this way it uses two power supplies, one for the digital circuitry and another for the analogue. With the NDX, the XPSDR simply bypasses the internal PSU

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Phil, I use a Naim DC1 cable.. on balance I find it sounds best...as far as your XPSDR, definitely add to NDAC... this way it uses two power supplies, one for the digital circuitry and another for the analogue. With the NDX, the XPSDR simply bypasses the internal PSU

Hi Simon, thank you for your reply.

When I get the loan of an NDX and XPSDR (hopefully next week) I will do as you say and add the XPSDR back on the nDAC and use the DC1 I already have on loan to connect the NDX to the nDAC. I also have a refurbish Cisco 2960 8tc coming on Monday so I should have a good setup for low noise networking.

In the last week the nDAC has only had to handle the tv stuff via 5m toslink. At first it sounded a bit hard, but this is probably the first time the nDAC has not been powered by the XPSDR. It is now more than ok for tv, if a little digital.

I must say I have been impressed by the XPSDR on the CDX2, which sounds the best it ever has particularly on modern popular music. I will compare the NDX against the CDX2+XPSDR.

I could use the Core I have on loan as a uPnP server to the nNDX rather than the NAS. Would anyone expect there to be a sound difference. I did also wonder whether to use the NDX WiFi rather than Ethernet as my hub is within 2-3m of the NDX. To illustrate the performance of the Wi-fi, it can stream tv programs from my iPad to Apple TV wirelessly without any glitches. If the NDX used it Wi-fi it would be electrically isolated from the network. I know the Naim Wi-fi is not the best, but I could see if it is up to a few meters.

Phil

I found the HDX and NDX performed about on par with my CDX2. Adding the XPS2 raised the performance accordingly, and left the CDX2 trailing the HDX and the NDX. As would be expected, with DAC/XPS2 and later DAC/555, everything changed and not by a small margin. The NDS/555PS is altogether a different presentation. Reminiscent but not identical to the CDS3. And much more capable than any X level source if have heard.

There are so many permutations at X level with power supplies and DACs that the only way to know for sure is to listen to as much as you can and decide based on your findings. The NDX is capable of a lot of things in addition to 16/44 playback. And as ever, the quality of the source material is paramount. There is some good HiRes material out there (along with all the really bad HiRes material out there) that will open you up to a new world of musical enjoyment. Obviously, a CDX2 won't get you there.

Of the black and green streamers currently on sale, the NDX is easily the best value for money. 

You can't lose really. Just go with what your needs, resources and ears regard as the best bet. All these components sound good at their respective price points. 

Harry, thanks for your insight. I will report back when I have listened to the boxes a bit. Fortunately my dealer lets me keep the s for a good while.

Phil

Having a dealer like that is such an advantage. We can sometimes take it for granted. And maybe we should. But we're lucky.

The important thing is to have fun. I hope you have lots.

Harry posted:

Having a dealer like that is such an advantage. We can sometimes take it for granted. And maybe we should. But we're lucky.

The important thing is to have fun. I hope you have lots.

I do have a good dealer, part a largish chain. It works both ways because I have given him feedback on what I have done to improve my setup. He wasn’t aware of the need to space the classic boxes more to get  the best out of them, particularly the power supplies and preamps.

I do enjoy listening to music a lot, making it better and better,  and understanding how the changes affect SQ. The great thing is that lots of the tweaks don’t cost much. 

Phil

I got my UsedCisco 2960 8tc from Germany today at 64€ cost. Rejigged things so the NAS and UnitiServe SSD are on it.  

The strange thing is that Dido’s Life for Rent sounds as least as good from the UnitiServe via nDAC without XPSDR as the CDX2 with XPSDR! Is this what a good switch can do? The CDX2 improved considerably with the XPDDR. Need to play more music.

I forgot to mention, the CDX2 has the SL IC and the nDAC just the standard DIN IC!

Had to put the Humax Freeview Sat box on the switch as well because of available Ethernet cables. Anyone know whether I could be contaminating the audio with noise from the Hamax? The switch is also powered off the same strip as the tv, Humax, dvd, Apple TV. Perhaps not an issue as listening to TV and music are exclusive.

Phil

Filipe posted:

I got my UsedCisco 2960 8tc from Germany today at 64€ cost. Rejigged things so the NAS and UnitiServe SSD are on it.  

The strange thing is that Dido’s Life for Rent sounds as least as good from the UnitiServe via nDAC without XPSDR as the CDX2 with XPSDR! Is this what a good switch can do? The CDX2 improved considerably with the XPDDR. Need to play more music.

I forgot to mention, the CDX2 has the SL IC and the nDAC just the standard DIN IC!

Had to put the Humax Freeview Sat box on the switch as well because of available Ethernet cables. Anyone know whether I could be contaminating the audio with noise from the Hamax? The switch is also powered off the same strip as the tv, Humax, dvd, Apple TV. Perhaps not an issue as listening to TV and music are exclusive.

Phil

I would  not put the sat box on the cisco personally, it can affect the sound. But you can try with and without on the cisco and see if there are differences.

For unitserve/ndac vs cdx2/xpsdr, you find the sound quite the same?  how is your dac connected to the serve?

Hi Phil. I just noticed your question above. I listen to most genres. Just yesterday I played Walton 2 (Karabits), Quincy Jones - The Quintessence,  and Anouar Brahem - Thimar in one session. I have thousands of CDs ripped. It took quite some time to convince me to undertake the ripping of the classical CDs as the metadata required effort (solved by using  dbPoweramp). Hence the time it took to part with the CDS3. Soundwise I lost nothing, gained convenience  and have not looked back. CDX2 was brutally honest compared to the CDS3, and occasionally missed as a result. But when the recording is good the CDS3 shone. Again the NDX/XPS DR was up to this level for me.

Enjoy your journey.

[@mention:56335183628232089] The UnitiServe is connected using the Naim DC1. I will try without the connection to the Humax Sat box.

The only other difference is that the Core next to the UnitiServe has been turned off for a few days. Could the Core, which is above the nDAC electronics on the left, affect the SQ from the nDAC? This I can believe. The SQ is still better than before I started trying out Core and UnitiServe though.

Phil

cdboy posted:

Hi Phil. I just noticed your question above. I listen to most genres. Just yesterday I played Walton 2 (Karabits), Quincy Jones - The Quintessence,  and Anouar Brahem - Thimar in one session. I have thousands of CDs ripped. It took quite some time to convince me to undertake the ripping of the classical CDs as the metadata required effort (solved by using  dbPoweramp). Hence the time it took to part with the CDS3. Soundwise I lost nothing, gained convenience  and have not looked back. CDX2 was brutally honest compared to the CDS3, and occasionally missed as a result. But when the recording is good the CDS3 shone. Again the NDX/XPS DR was up to this level for me.

Enjoy your journey.

[@mention:1566878603871896] Thank you for your response. I am moving away from my CDX2 gradually like you.

The ripping is not an issue as I have all my CDs ripped (I had the loan of a UnitiServe in autumn 2016 and opted for the Core which then had issues so I abandoned both). I have both on loan again, and should get the NDX and another XPSDR this week.

What is throwing everything up in the air is that I got a refurbished Cisco 2960 8tc (64 €) yesterday, and now the nDAC + UnitiServe SSD is sounding as good as the CDX2 + XPSDR! It seems to me that the nDAC is sensitive to its sources which the 2960 have improved. I guess the next step is to put the XPSDR and SL IC back on the nDAC. If I get a big improvement then the only thing from the NDX I might miss is TIDAL. Some say TIDAL is not as good as streaming your own music though.

So I have to decide whether NDX with its inferior DAC to the nDAC is worth the money. The White papers for NDS, NDX and nDAC reveal that NDS and nDAC use the same DAC chip. Best to try NDX.

Phil

Filipe

i had a similar question for my dealer a few years ago - system was then CDX2/XPS/202/200/HCDR, and i wanted to move over to digital - thought then was either 272 or NDX, due to pre AMP and vinyl replay - (also have LP12) I went down the NDX route and dont regreat it for one moment - i just seem to get more music out of the NDX - i have now upgraded both pre and AMP to 282/HCDR/300 (off to be DR at end of month)

my NAS is QNAP and i use Asset through NAIM app on my Ipad which works really well, FLAC files which Asset transcodes to WAV ave been trying out some DSD files - another thread

in the end they are both great sources but for me having all of your music on your IPAD with no comprimise is great for me

enjoy the journey

antony d posted:

Filipe

i had a similar question for my dealer a few years ago - system was then CDX2/XPS/202/200/HCDR, and i wanted to move over to digital - thought then was either 272 or NDX, due to pre AMP and vinyl replay - (also have LP12) I went down the NDX route and dont regreat it for one moment - i just seem to get more music out of the NDX - i have now upgraded both pre and AMP to 282/HCDR/300 (off to be DR at end of month)

my NAS is QNAP and i use Asset through NAIM app on my Ipad which works really well, FLAC files which Asset transcodes to WAV ave been trying out some DSD files - another thread

in the end they are both great sources but for me having all of your music on your IPAD with no comprimise is great for me

enjoy the journey

Hi Antony

We have similar systems, and possibly the same dealer chain. Two years ago my first Naim box was a Uniti 2, but I quickly returned it as I decided to go down the separates route.

I didn’t get round to trying TIDAL then. Do you use TIDAL, and if so how does it compare with CDs you stream?

Definitely enjoying the journey

Phil

 

Hi Antony

We have similar systems, and possibly the same dealer chain. Two years ago my first Naim box was a Uniti 2, but I quickly returned it as I decided to go down the separates route.

I didn’t get round to trying TIDAL then. Do you use TIDAL, and if so how does it compare with CDs you stream?

Definitely enjoying the journey

Phil

Phil

those boys in L'ster have looked after me from the start, I do stream to be honest 

I listen to a lot of IRADIO either Paradise on 320 or Radio 6 Music , apart from my LP12 all of my music is losses FLAC through QNAP - really like the presentation esp at the higher bite rates - nearly all of which are superb recordings also tried DSD jury is still out on that format at the moment

found riping the CD's easy with dBpoweramp rip once rip right - and back up reguarly

antony d posted:

 

Hi Antony

We have similar systems, and possibly the same dealer chain. Two years ago my first Naim box was a Uniti 2, but I quickly returned it as I decided to go down the separates route.

I didn’t get round to trying TIDAL then. Do you use TIDAL, and if so how does it compare with CDs you stream?

Definitely enjoying the journey

Phil

Phil

those boys in L'ster have looked after me from the start, I do stream to be honest 

I listen to a lot of IRADIO either Paradise on 320 or Radio 6 Music , apart from my LP12 all of my music is losses FLAC through QNAP - really like the presentation esp at the higher bite rates - nearly all of which are superb recordings also tried DSD jury is still out on that format at the moment

found riping the CD's easy with dBpoweramp rip once rip right - and back up reguarly

My dealer is closer to me. I’m very happy with my RP10. About to try the Core instead of the UnitiServe.

Phil