ethernet

There is a very good chance that a wired connection will improve things for you, but nobody can guarantee it will solve your specific (undiagnosed) issue. I would suggest that you put in a wired connection and just try it. You could always buy a very cheap long cable just as a test before you start any disruptive permanent cable installation. I once did this with a 10m long Cat5e cable bought from ebay for £2.50 including delivery. 

Totally agree with Chris, it’s a very cheap way of evaluating this option. Also running an Ethernet cable to a new location from your router to a Ethernet switch is also pretty cheap, once proven to be effective.

I've just added an Apple Airport Express to my Qb in the kitchen. I suffer from occasional drop-outs from iRadio and also had the same on a three way multi-room upnp playlist.

So far, everything is working as I expected - no drop-outs - but it's early days.

Essentially, the Qb thinks it's wired, and the AE deals with getting stuff wirelessly.

@Gavin B - I'm about to do this, for the same reason (occasional iRadio dropouts). As I understand it, I need to configure the AE in "bridge" mode. I'm not so confident with Apple stuff (other than phones) - do I access the AE wirelessly via my laptop and configure it that way? Presumably there'll be a settings menu for me to fix the mode. Thanks in advance.

nickpeacock posted:

@Gavin B - I'm about to do this, for the same reason (occasional iRadio dropouts). As I understand it, I need to configure the AE in "bridge" mode. I'm not so confident with Apple stuff (other than phones) - do I access the AE wirelessly via my laptop and configure it that way? Presumably there'll be a settings menu for me to fix the mode. Thanks in advance.

On a Mac, its easy to configure an Airport device using Airport Utility. Not sure what happens if you use a PC? 

I use mine with an Airport Extreme as my main base station, so the Express works with this very easily. Not sure if it is quite so simple if you use a non-Apple base station here as it's been years since I tried it.

It's all at my g/f's house and she's a Mac user. The AE will connect to some form of Apple base station device which provides the main wifi to the house. I can borrow her Mac to play around with the AE. I shall look at Airport Utility. Thanks.

ChrisSU posted:

nickpeacock posted:

@Gavin B - I'm about to do this, for the same reason (occasional iRadio dropouts). As I understand it, I need to configure the AE in "bridge" mode. I'm not so confident with Apple stuff (other than phones) - do I access the AE wirelessly via my laptop and configure it that way? Presumably there'll be a settings menu for me to fix the mode. Thanks in advance.

On a Mac, its easy to configure an Airport device using Airport Utility. Not sure what happens if you use a PC? 

I use mine with an Airport Extreme as my main base station, so the Express works with this very easily. Not sure if it is quite so simple if you use a non-Apple base station here as it's been years since I tried it.

Thanks. So explain more. Are you saying your airport extreme is wired into the ethernet and then you are using wifi + airplay to connect to the NAIM, or are you ethernet connecting your extreme to the NAIM? 

I currently have an airport setup: an airport time capsule is connected in bridge mode to an airport express, and the NAIM is using wifi.  Dropouts abound.

All my music is on my mac system. My question is what an ethernet connection can do for me... I have a guy drilling one as we speak, just in case, but need to be able to imagine some scenarios.

Scenario a) on my mind is this:

Fiberoptic connection to my house from the service provider --> Ethernet connection outlet --> Naim. This would, I presume, let me use internet radio w/o dropouts, but not necessarily wire into my music stored in apple products. 

scenario b) hypothetical:

fiberoptic into house --> ethernet outlet --> apple router --> ethernet connection from apple router (eg. airport express or extreme) to the Naim. (Remember my music  is stored on iphone/laptop).  Would this mean when I use the naim app, it would be basically work as a remote control for a wired connection... Might this let me circumvent a crappy wifi connection altogether? OR in this sceneario, is the fact that my music collection is mostly stored on apple devices mean I'm still using a wifi hence subject to dropouts?

Am I describing this in a way that makes sense?  

You can also use the Airport app on an iPhone or iPad to control/setup an Airport device.

If your music is stored on something that is only connected by wifi then connecting your Naim by Ethernet will help with iradio but obviously can't help with your stored music, which has to get to the Naim by wifi or maybe Bluetooth.

You could connect your laptop to the Ethernet too and use upnp to serve the music to your Naim unit. In that case the iPhone or whatever just uses the app to control the Naim as you say. Or you could connect your laptop to your Naim with a digital cable (not too long though) and select the music on the laptop.

A better way would be to buy a NAS, put your music on that and connect that to the Ethernet. Then you can use upnp to serve the music and the iPhone app to control the Naim unit.

best

David

Gavin B posted:

I've just added an Apple Airport Express to my Qb in the kitchen. I suffer from occasional drop-outs from iRadio and also had the same on a three way multi-room upnp playlist.

So far, everything is working as I expected - no drop-outs - but it's early days.

Essentially, the Qb thinks it's wired, and the AE deals with getting stuff wirelessly.

So this is interesting... Do you use an audio or digital jack? And what is your airport express connected to?

David Hendon posted:

You can also use the Airport app on an iPhone or iPad to control/setup an Airport device.

best

David

Do you mean the remote app? And what exactly are you setting up that prevents dropouts?  

I was referring to another post that said you could control an Airport from a Mac not a PC. The app is just for setting up the Airport. You can find it on the App Store if you search for Airport Utility.

best

David

Hi Bookworm, an ethernet connection allows your Muso to connect to your media server/NAS more effectively than using a basic home wifi setup. This will allow efficient two way communication between the Muso and the media server, and this should reduce the chances of drop outs significantly assuming your media server is healthy.

Wifi can work very effectively for streaming, but one really should use higher grade wifi solutions that some home consumer set ups. Also the Apple wifi products are a little long on the tooth now and don't support some as far as I am aware of the more recent advanced capabilities for multiple access point load balancing etc. So if you are wanting to use wifi for streaming look at quality wifi access points like multiple overlapping Ubiquiti devices wired to a common switch, or alternatively best use ethernet.

BTW I wouldn't encourage you to use a wifi bridge - as the Muso will not be working optimally and you may increase the chance of dropouts - especially for higher def and possibly web radio - the streamer effectively optimises its network stack for communication to the media server based on whether wifi or ethernet. Using a wifi bridge will give the Muso a false idea of the environment its working in.

S

THANKS. More questions, and you'll forgive how primitive they are. In my case, is my media server my mac laptop or iPhone? Or should I look for a different way of storing my music?

Your media server is possibly on your NAS, or your PC/Mac. It might be called something like ReadyDLNA, JRiver, Asset, Twonky or MinimServer. It will be providing the UPnP service for local streaming.

I use a mac and iTunes. Is iTunes my server?

Hi Bookworm.

In your case, yes, iTunes on your Mac is a server.  It will serve to AirPlay devices like your Express.

Newbies get confused sometimes because you can use the AE different ways.

The best way is to turn Wi-Fi off in the AE and use it wired back to the router.  Then connect it to your MuSo using a mini-Tos to Toslink interconnect.  Now you can use AirPlay at the Mac or iPhone into the AE > MuSo.

BTW:  Be sure to run at least two CAT5e or CAT6 wires on each run, in case one ever goes bad.  You will use the second run directly to MuSo for iRadio, Spotify etc.

Nick

bookworm posted:

I use a mac and iTunes. Is iTunes my server?

iTunes might be a server, but it is not a UPnP server, so it cannot serve files to a streamer as they would. You would need to use Airplay instead, if your streamer supports it, or put UPnP server software on your computer so it can see your music library.

You could install e.g. MinimServer on the Mac, point it at your iTunes music file location, and it will serve the music to the MuSo directly, and you control from iPhone using Naim app.  Naim app cannot see files served only by iTunes — different systems, same misic files.  MinimServer is a UPnP server, iTunes is not UPnP.

Nick

bookworm posted:

ChrisSU posted:

nickpeacock posted:

@Gavin B - I'm about to do this, for the same reason (occasional iRadio dropouts). As I understand it, I need to configure the AE in "bridge" mode. I'm not so confident with Apple stuff (other than phones) - do I access the AE wirelessly via my laptop and configure it that way? Presumably there'll be a settings menu for me to fix the mode. Thanks in advance.

On a Mac, its easy to configure an Airport device using Airport Utility. Not sure what happens if you use a PC? 

I use mine with an Airport Extreme as my main base station, so the Express works with this very easily. Not sure if it is quite so simple if you use a non-Apple base station here as it's been years since I tried it.

Thanks. So explain more. Are you saying your airport extreme is wired into the ethernet and then you are using wifi + airplay to connect to the NAIM, or are you ethernet connecting your extreme to the NAIM? 

My Airport Extreme is wired to my ISP supplied router, which has its WiFi disabled, and the AE takes over as the centre of my LAN. 

I currently have an airport setup: an airport time capsule is connected in bridge mode to an airport express, and the NAIM is using wifi.  Dropouts abound.

I use an Airport Express connected wirelessly to the Extreme - it probably should have a wired connection really, but it works fine without, so I didn't bother. I have heard of people having problems with Time Capsules before, so maybe take that out of your setup, restart everything, and see if it improves.

All my music is on my mac system. My question is what an ethernet connection can do for me... I have a guy drilling one as we speak, just in case, but need to be able to imagine some scenarios.

Scenario a) on my mind is this:

Fiberoptic connection to my house from the service provider --> Ethernet connection outlet --> Naim. This would, I presume, let me use internet radio w/o dropouts, but not necessarily wire into my music stored in apple products.

A wired connection to your streamer is definitely worth it.  

scenario b) hypothetical:

fiberoptic into house --> ethernet outlet --> apple router --> ethernet connection from apple router (eg. airport express or extreme) to the Naim. (Remember my music  is stored on iphone/laptop).  Would this mean when I use the naim app, it would be basically work as a remote control for a wired connection... Might this let me circumvent a crappy wifi connection altogether? OR in this sceneario, is the fact that my music collection is mostly stored on apple devices mean I'm still using a wifi hence subject to dropouts?

You need WiFi for your iPhone, but will not be talking directly to the streamer, it will be connecting to it via your wired network regardless of whether that uses Apple hardware or not. Given that you already own the hardware, I would try running an all-Apple network as the devices tend to play nicely with each other. I have been doing this for years. I turn off the WiFi in the settings menu of my ISP supplied router and connect an Airport Extreme to it. That runs my network, and any Airport Express I have around the house are set to 'Extend a wireless network' using the Airport Utility app.

Best not to have more Airport devices than you really need dotted all over the house, as this tends to slow things down quite a lot - 'Keep it simple' is definitely the way here.    

Hi, Bookworm.

How is the wired connection working for your Qb?

I forgot MuSos have AirPlay onboard; so no need to use the AirPort Express with Toslink, the way I suggested.  Redundant.

I find that people are surprised at first that AirPlay is not really about doing anything without wires; rather, you can control AirPlay devices on a network from a phone or iPad, but throwing content from a phone or iPad or computer fom a Wi-Fi connection to the network is usually a rougher experience than controlling content on a Mac that is wired to the network, and playing through an AirPlay device that is also wired to the network.

Wi-Fi legs can work, but they are less reliable than wired for sure.  Sometimes moving a Wi-Fi device six inches in a direction changes reception from poor to good.  No such issues when wired.

Nick

NickSeattle posted:

I forgot MuSos have AirPlay onboard; so no need to use the AirPort Express with Toslink, the way I suggested.  Redundant.

 

Musos and QBs, like many Naim streamers out there, have 802.11g WiFi. Some later models shipped with 802.11n, but according to Naim's website, not the Musos. To my mind, that is one very good reason for using an Airport Express, with or without Airplay. 

ChrisSU posted:

NickSeattle posted:

I forgot MuSos have AirPlay onboard; so no need to use the AirPort Express with Toslink, the way I suggested.  Redundant.

 

Musos and QBs, like many Naim streamers out there, have 802.11g WiFi. Some later models shipped with 802.11n, but according to Naim's website, not the Musos. To my mind, that is one very good reason for using an Airport Express, with or without Airplay. 

I should have said the AirPort Express is utterly redundant if the Qb is wired to the LAN.

This is not the case with my NDX, which does not support AirPlay natively — it needs an AirPort Express as a Toslink source, if you want AirPlay.

With time, I have moved on from AirPlay, and use UPnP and the Naim app exclusively now — simpler than jumping from one system to another.  Only downside is no control FROM THE MAC/PC.  Control from iPhone/iPad is good enough for me and family.

Nick

Just noticed you are/were using the AirPort Express as a DAC into your Nait.  The is an OK way to go, but the AE does sound better if you use Toslink to connect it to a separate DAC between the AE and Nait.  Also, wiring the AE to the network, and turning its Wi-Fi radio off, improves performance either way.  That is what I do to get AirPlay to my nDAC.  But that is a different topic.

I hope hard-wiring your Ethernet connection to the Qb gives you more stability— it should.

Internet radio can still have dropouts sometimes, due to service interruptions, which are out of your control, and other issues on your LAN.  Once all if your local issues are worked out, it should be smooth sailing.

Once things are stable, you may find different DACs have different time delays.  Using all Naim DACs, and their Party Mode seems to eliminate any echo effect between locations.

Nick

I could use some help from anyone who understands Apple stuff - my apologies in advance, but I could really do with this being explained in words of one syllable.

As above, I have bought an Airport Express (2nd gen, model A1382), which I want to use with a Muso Qb (not least to reduce iradio dropouts).

I have factory reset the AE. I also managed to update the firmware in it before encountering problems.

The wifi network at my g/f's house is provided for these purposes by an Apple device (I think it's a Time Capsule), which in turn boosts the wifi from a BT HomeHub in the basement. [It's not how I would set up a network but I can't overhaul it at the moment.]

I plug in the AE, but I get a flashing light on the front.

I use g/f's MacBook Pro's airport utility to check what's going on: it seems there are two issues: an internet connection problem and a DNS problem.

I think I may have to start again this evening with another factory reset but in the meantime...

Questions:

1. I need to set the AE to "join" (rather than "extend") an existing network, right? Any other manual settings I need to make in the AE during setup?

2. I feel very stupid for asking this, but which socket do I use on the back of the AE for the ethernet cable connecting AE and Qb - WAN or ethernet?

3. If I run into the DNS issue again, which DNS numbers should I input? [I have the Fing network scanning app so I can locate the house's various devices if that helps.]

If anyone could spare the time to help me, I would be incredibly grateful...

I'm not the world expert here, but can you clarify what you want to do? Is this AE going to be in just one home or will you move it between your home and your g/f's? If you are moving it, it is much simpler if you can connect the AE with Ethernet to the router rather than picking up wifi and working with that.

The WAN socket is where you would plug in such Ethernet. The Qb goes to any of the others.

You really don't want to get into adding DNS manually because it should get the DNS from the network you are connecting to and if it doesn't then it won't work anyway.

best

David