Kudos 707

I'm using the 707 with my 500/552 system. Great speakers, replaced my old good speakers: SL2, ProAc 3.8.
The Kudos sound is very transparent, lucid and clear. Had the S20 for a home demo, nothing like the 707 in terms of scale/weight of the
instruments. Soundstage is great with the 707, although it was not easy to find that really sweet spot (distance from back wall - 25-30cm).

They do like some Chord cables, which adds that prestige sound to the NDS - an excellent combination.
Works great both with digital and analog sources, but the performance with my analog source (LP12+Armageddon+SuperLine+Supercap
DR+Aro+ZYX Omega Premium) is heavenly made, truly remarkable.

I prefer the Kudos sound to the ProAc/Harbeth/Naim speakers (SL2/Ovators)/B&W/Wilson Audio/Magico and many more.

Kudos to speakers is what Naim to electronics, IMHO.

BP.

The Kudos 707, together with the PMC Fact12, is on my list of possibles in case there is a need to replace my Naim NBLs. Currently I'm leaning more towards the Fact12s.

Clive B posted:

The Kudos 707, together with the PMC Fact12, is on my list of possibles in case there is a need to replace my Naim NBLs. Currently I'm leaning more towards the Fact12s.

Just to add to the conundrum, ones better choice of speaker for ones; system compatibility, individual  listening room acoustics, budget, and ears, may also depend upon the decision on remaining in passive form, or to go active [perhaps at a later stage] with another amp or two. The best passive speaker resolve may come down to which one has the better passive performance characteristics, perhaps especially due to x-over design technology and construction.

I find the prospect of owning more than one NAP500 highly unaffordable without a substantial premium bond win : /

Debs

I listened to the 808s and the 606s recently back to back. Yes the smaller speakers lack the ultimate scale on the big Titans but close your eyes and you’d be astounded by what the 606s do give you. 

And the bass - wow! The Super 20s are good but the control and the power and the detail.

The 707s are great too. 

Tomorrow, tomorrow...I’ll hear them tomorrow.

Dave, as your system is very similar to mine I will be very interested in how you like the sound of the 707’s. I live in the states so my only point of reference are the 88’s which I have heard and like very much.

Added in 2017. These are Serial Number 5. They are a  significant step up from my old S20s, which were very good.

elkman70 posted:

Added in 2017. These are Serial Number 5. They are a  significant step up from my old S20s, which were very good.

Mine are Serial Number 4.

BP. 

If I recall correctly, JN has number 6. Wonder who 1,2,3.

Chris, which Kudos do you own ? Did you hear the 606 on Naim or Linn ?

Bp, since you owned a SL2 , how would you describe the difference between those and your new 707 ?

pylod posted:

Bp, since you owned a SL2 , how would you describe the difference between those and your new 707 ?

The SL2 provides a wall of sound, instruments are very natural without any coloration, "dry" sound.
The 707 adds an extra luxurious to the sound, very lucid sound, extra layers are resolved with an authority of a larger speaker.
The 707 also adds an extra capacity/body to the instruments. The tweeter is much much better than older speakers, smooth just like a butter.

BTW, the 808 reminds me the DBL with their scale and bass response.

BP.

Thank you for reply. Sounds exciting ! Did you hear the 606 as well ?

I currently have Kudos Super 20s. I changed to them about 3 and a bit years ago after 20 odd years with Naim SBLs. 

Thank you for reply Chris. Heard a lot of good comments about 20 s but acctually never heard a Kudos speaker before. Are the 606 tempting ? You seem to fall for them a bit. Can you describe your impressions? 

Dave J posted:

Tomorrow, tomorrow...I’ll hear them tomorrow.

How did your demo go Dave ?

 Very well indeed. I’ll try to post later today. I have to sort out the old folk first and then re-install the LP12 but it was a really interesting day. Peter very much on form and, as ever, amazingly helpful...

naim_nymph posted:

Clive B posted:

The Kudos 707, together with the PMC Fact12, is on my list of possibles in case there is a need to replace my Naim NBLs. Currently I'm leaning more towards the Fact12s.

Just to add to the conundrum, ones better choice of speaker for ones; system compatibility, individual  listening room acoustics, budget, and ears, may also depend upon the decision on remaining in passive form, or to go active [perhaps at a later stage] with another amp or two. The best passive speaker resolve may come down to which one has the better passive performance characteristics, perhaps especially due to x-over design technology and construction.

I find the prospect of owning more than one NAP500 highly unaffordable without a substantial premium bond win : /

Debs

I would only consider passive. It's not only the prospect (and cost!) of one or two more NAP500s, NAXO, Supercap and Fraim shelves, but also the thought of all the speaker cables which I'd find unacceptable. 

Another issue would be getting to hear them at home. I don't know of any one dealer who stocks both PMC and Kudos and they would need to be reasonably nearby if I hoped to do home demo I guess.

Fortunately, touch wood, the NBLs are still sounding and looking fine. 

Clive, a long way from you, but Signals in Ipswich have both. They are also looking to sell their demo fact12’s...

kevin J Carden posted:

Clive, a long way from you, but Signals in Ipswich have both. They are also looking to sell their demo fact12’s...

Thanks for that, Kevin, but luckily the NBLs are still the bees elbows. I'm just preparing a list of possibilities in the event they decide to misbehave.

Dave J posted:

 Very well indeed. I’ll try to post later today. I have to sort out the old folk first and then re-install the LP12 but it was a really interesting day. Peter very much on form and, as ever, amazingly helpful...

Looking forward to it

Understood completely Clive. We seem to have several things in common in that we run similar electronics, are looking at the same speakers, but with no burning need to change. With you in Wiltshire and me in Exeter, perhaps we could persuade Alastair or Andy to bring them down to us for consecutive home demo’s! Hmm...

oh, and we have guitars in common too. delicious looking 335 you have there!

kevin J Carden posted:

Understood completely Clive. We seem to have several things in common in that we run similar electronics, are looking at the same speakers, but with no burning need to change. With you in Wiltshire and me in Exeter, perhaps we could persuade Alastair or Andy to bring them down to us for consecutive home demo’s! Hmm...

oh, and we have guitars in common too. delicious looking 335 you have there!

Off topic alert: ah yes, the ES335. That was a 1962 model which I owned for 25 years, having bought it in 1980 for £400 plus a Fender Mustang. I sold it to make way for several other guitars, mostly acoustic, which I have rotated a bit since. I do still have a 335, but it's a custom shop copy of Larry Carlton's skinny neck '68 - sadly not a patch on the '62.

My “mission” yesterday was three-fold.

Firstly, I needed to replace the cartridge on the Rega RP1 I bought for my Dad last year. He suffers from Alzheimer’s but still loves playing his old vinyl - it’s one of the few things we can still share together - but unfortunately he can be a little clumsy and managed to remove the stylus a couple of weeks back. Secondly, I wanted to (finally) hear a Tranquility and see what the fuss was about. Thirdly, of course, it was to compare the 707s with the new 606s, now that Cymbiosis’s demo pair have had a good time to loosen up.

To preempt things, it was a successful day on all fronts but I must particularly thank Peter for resolving the cartridge issue by establishing that an Audio Technica AT95 cartridge is within a gnat’s of the weight of the original Rega cartridge and, of course, has a replaceable stylus assembly. To make things even better, he located some titanium screws that, once fitted, meant the weight was identical. Brilliant solution and way beyond the service that anyone might reasonably expect for the £30 odd the cartridge cost. Earlier on today, I went over to reinstall the turntable and am pleased to report that my Dad was utterly delighted. Thanks Peter!

OK, so on with the speaker audition...

When I arrived, the 606s were playing in the background - strains of Agnes Obel accompanied a decent cup of coffee - and we decided that we’d start with the 606s and then “downgrade” to the S20s that I currently use before swapping these for the 707s. System was KDSM2 (that’s the latest Katalyst version that I use at home), 552DR, 500DR, ChordMusic power cable on the 552PS but everything else stock Linn Silver and Naim cables apart from SL speaker cables. As an aside, the SLs were better than when I last heard them and seem to work pretty well with the Titan speaker range but things improved further when we replaced them with an old set of Sarum speakers cables, which added a bit of life to things. After a couple of tracks, Peter also swapped out the Linn Silver i/c on the KDSM, which I’m sorry to have to say, I really don’t like at all, and replaced it with a Music (which I use at home) and the system took off.

Initially then, the 606s were tremendous, offering a level of sophistication, ease and coherence that you might rightly expect of any speaker at this sort of price to deliver, but it also just... clicks somehow. The tweeter, in particular, is utterly fabulous; there’s none of the glare that some refer to with the S20s, just wonderful airy, detail and it integrates just so well with the mid/bass drivers (isobaric remember, but not to the degree that anyone familiar with Linn’s Isobarik might expect) and there’s a sense of scale that transcends the fairly diminutive size of the cabinet. Wonderful stuff and I can quite see why Chris was so smitten by them.

So, then “down” to the S20s. There’s a clear family resemblance and they’re a lot more efficient but, whereas I had advanced the volume up to around 12 o’clock with the 606s and they loved it, the S20s were less obliging. They’re great speakers and terrific vfm (their inevitable rise in availability on the s/h market as a result of the appearance of the Titans means that some people will be getting some bloody bargains!) but the 606s do so much more and are clearly better in all departments. Quick change then to the 707s to see how much better they are...and...

Yes, they’re as good as when I first heard them.  They inevitably have more scale and a bit more low-end grunt than the 606s, but I don’t think they’re quite as sweet at the top end - vocal lines in particular are better on the 606s. Yes, it’s the same tweeter but I think it’s the integration of the units in the 606s that does something a bit special - Joni Mitchell was just wow. Several more tracks in and, to be honest, I’d happily live with either and, being in the very fortunate position to have whichever floats my boat highest, it was back to the 606s.

Was this a let down? No it wasn’t. They work really well at lower volume, which is important to me, and while there isn’t quite as much grunt as the 707s, they absolutely boogie and go deep when it’s there and it’s tight bass too. I’d imagine that they would be a very natural choice for those who love SBLs or SL2s but want more (and more bass).

Both sets of Titans are really fabulous speakers so, for me, it boils down to which is the best match for my listening room. The 707s would physically and visually dominate and I’d have to sit closer to them, whereas the 606s would slot right in where the S20s sit now. Perfect. So that seals it, I’ve decided on a pair of 606s. I would however say if I had had a much bigger listening room, I’d go with the 707s, probably. But actually, if I had the space and the budget, I’d go for for 808s, which are still at the top of the tree, in my opinion. In the meantime, however, I’ll be extremely happy with the 606s and will enjoy my next mission of finding out how they are best powered.

Oh and the Tranquility? Absolute no-brainer! After settling on the 606s, I spent the final hour listening to what it can do and, frankly, the only thing I can’t understand is why anyone with an LP12 wouldn’t want one. Only, get it fitted by Cymbiosis, I suspect those dealers who said they didn’t like it, were simply unable to fit it properly.

Very interesting Dave and thanks for sharing your thoughts. For some reason i'd assumed the 606's to be bigger than they actually are and having checked the dimensions and then measured my own speakers, i've found the 606's could pass the 'those aren't coming into the house' test easily. The simplicity of conversion to active operation makes them rather interesting too.

Looks like a visit to Harlow may be in order. 

Yes, James, they’re pretty compact really. Beautifully made too.

I’d anticipated going for 707s and had cleared the path as far as approval was concerned - although the listening room isn’t big, it is at least separate and gets referred to as “my” room.