Naim CDS3 performance

Tef - 2 points.  The CDS3 along with its bigger brother is arguably the best CDP ever made.  But to shine it really is worthy of the best amplification.  As has been said a SN2 is an obvious choice but a 282 with 200 or 250 would really bring it alive.  Also i recently had the great pleasure of hearing Foot Tapper’s CDS3 which has a 555PSU.  I specifically asked him to play me the Klaus Tennstedt performance of Beethoven’s Eroica - it was jaw droppingly beautiful so much so that I’m looking at ways get a 555PSU myself.   Might be a bit of a wait.  

Second - I’m not normally someone to see wires as the solution and would not recommend spending big  on Lumina (as good as it is) but I’d think about trying some Naca A5 or Chord Odyssey  as an alternative to the QED   Also a hiline or perhaps Chord Sig TA between the CDS3 and amp would worth an audition   

Good luck   

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

The CDS3 along with its bigger brother is arguably the best CDP ever made.  But to shine it really is worthy of the best amplification.  As has been said a SN2 is an obvious choice but a 282 with 200 or 250 would really bring it alive.  

Turning the telescope around, Strat, one could easily say that very few have heard a Nait XS performing at such a high level as when fronted by a CDS3.

Chris

And there's the nub of it - the CDS3 (and other top end sources) will shine on even relatively modest amps and speakers, really getting the best from them.

I loved my CDS3 and I do rather wish I hadn't been persuaded to part with it.  It can be finicky though - I heard some (quite a number actually) that were pretty lacklustre, and usually it comes down to poor siting, bad cable dressing, or the inner tray not being absolutely level, or the pins resting on the lever arms rather than in the cups (usually after a jolt).  Lots of little things to get just right for it to really come alive.  But you knew when something was off - it just sounded quite detailed but sweet and a bit flat overall.  In many respects a CDX2 is MUCH less hassle. And it makes any s/h CDS3 a bit of a risk - I would certainly want to have it checked by Naim service thoroughly inside and out.  But when it's all spot on, the CDS3 can be totally beguiling.

Christopher_M posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

The CDS3 along with its bigger brother is arguably the best CDP ever made.  But to shine it really is worthy of the best amplification.  As has been said a SN2 is an obvious choice but a 282 with 200 or 250 would really bring it alive.  

Turning the telescope around, Strat, one could easily say that very few have heard a Nait XS performing at such a high level as when fronted by a CDS3.

Chris

Of course.   But my preference has always been to seek a balanced system and synergy.  

Alba1320 posted:

And how would you rate CD555 in comparison, Richard?

One of the only CD players I'd trade a CDS3 for... (If I could afford it).  

Only thing I don't like about the CD555 is the sheer weight of it and the potty lid. However, performance-wise it is probably the most engrossing and engaging CD player I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. 

Richard I agree.  PB’s sounds amazing - until you hear his TT that is!

Richard Dane posted:

And there's the nub of it - the CDS3 (and other top end sources) will shine on even relatively modest amps and speakers, really getting the best from them.

I loved my CDS3 and I do rather wish I hadn't been persuaded to part with it.  It can be finicky though - I heard some (quite a number actually) that were pretty lacklustre, and usually it comes down to poor siting, bad cable dressing, or the inner tray not being absolutely level, or the pins resting on the lever arms rather than in the cups (usually after a jolt).  Lots of little things to get just right for it to really come alive.  But you knew when something was off - it just sounded quite detailed but sweet and a bit flat overall.  In many respects a CDX2 is MUCH less hassle. And it makes any s/h CDS3 a bit of a risk - I would certainly want to have it checked by Naim service thoroughly inside and out.  But when it's all spot on, the CDS3 can be totally beguiling.

Richard, not sure my CDS3 is not playing at capacity, but is ther owners guide to walk through the foibles you describe?

 When CDS3 is in need of overhaul or head replacement, what are the landmarks? Can Naim still service and are we approaching end of players serviceable window?

No the CDS3 is still maintainable.  Last year mine went to Naim and came back with a new laser mech and caps replaced for £375. I’m not sure what the cost or arrangement would be in the USA.   But needless the sound was vastly improved.  

The Strat (Fender) posted:

... i recently had the great pleasure of hearing Foot Tapper’s CDS3 which has a 555PSU.  I specifically asked him to play me the Klaus Tennstedt performance of Beethoven’s Eroica - it was jaw droppingly beautiful so much so that I’m looking at ways get a 555PSU myself.   Might be a bit of a wait.  ...

Good luck   

Lindsay

 

Sorry about that Lindsay!  Great to see you though.

Best regards, FT

cnewyork posted:

Richard Dane posted:

And there's the nub of it - the CDS3 (and other top end sources) will shine on even relatively modest amps and speakers, really getting the best from them.

I loved my CDS3 and I do rather wish I hadn't been persuaded to part with it.  It can be finicky though - I heard some (quite a number actually) that were pretty lacklustre, and usually it comes down to poor siting, bad cable dressing, or the inner tray not being absolutely level, or the pins resting on the lever arms rather than in the cups (usually after a jolt).  Lots of little things to get just right for it to really come alive.  But you knew when something was off - it just sounded quite detailed but sweet and a bit flat overall.  In many respects a CDX2 is MUCH less hassle. And it makes any s/h CDS3 a bit of a risk - I would certainly want to have it checked by Naim service thoroughly inside and out.  But when it's all spot on, the CDS3 can be totally beguiling.

Richard, not sure my CDS3 is not playing at capacity, but is ther owners guide to walk through the foibles you describe?

 When CDS3 is in need of overhaul or head replacement, what are the landmarks? Can Naim still service and are we approaching end of players serviceable window?

Checking the tray is level is fairly easy.  Adjustment is not - definitely something only for a dealer or service tech very experienced with the CDS3.

You'll know when the mech needs replacement because it will start to have difficulty in reading discs. If it happens, first replace the clamp.  If it persists, seek help from your Naim dealer.  The CDS3 is still fully serviceable by Naim.

'' I'm currently using the CDS3 with a FC2x-Nait XS. Sometimes I feel the CDP turns in a less exciting performance than my old FC2x-CD5x did. Other times it's amazing ''

My cds3 paired with a Nac 52/scap ( serviced) is superb. No complaints  at all with lack of excitement , pace , or impact. A remarkably good combination. Having read over the years some others perceptions of the cds3 sounding just a  tad too polite I thought I must have discovered the perfect foil - the Nac 52. So good together ( various power amps and speakers) I thought that  when developing the cds3  a 52 must have been in the mix ? However , this thread has now got me thinking about trying the bigger power supply. Could I get an improvement ?  I've often thought that this would be nigh on impossible.

Forget servicing the XS, it shouldn't need it for a few years yet. I'd look towards a better amp. I bought a used 202/200, and for the money it is superb.

I can remember when the CD555 was launched over on another Hi-Fi forum where there was a lot of ant-Naim rhetoric - much green eyed envy - one particularly outspoken member likened the llid on said player to his peddle bin.  Some while later said individual visited a member of this forum and heard the full 500 Seried in all its glory and posted “oh my god it’s amazing.  And forum members who continue to rubbish the Salisbury brand should shut the f—— up and go and hear it”.  Such launguage was the norm on that forum at the time.  

Sorry Alba, possibly not a choice of words that everyone will understand and I certainly didn't want it to come across any mean slight.  When the CD555 first appeared my daughter was still very young, so the lid of the 555 reminded me of the rear-hinged lid that was on her potty.  Every time I look at it now, it just reminds me of her potty.  Unfortunate I know, but there you go... (I'd still love to have one - a CD555 that is, not a potty...) 

The CD555 'hatch' reminds me of these:

Should be good to rescue the nac72 at the bottom of the goldfish tank

Debs

Are you referring to (on the CD555), the proximity sensor which triggers the lid to open?

That is almost as odd as the remote lid open option!  (Why would you need the lid open if you are not standing next to the player?)

tef posted:

I'm currently using the CDS3 with a FC2x-Nait XS. Sometimes I feel the CDP turns in a less exciting performance than my old FC2x-CD5x did. Other times it's amazing. This mixed performance is probably due to different quality recordings, however I do wonder if a Supernait or Supernait 2 would even out the performance.  Since I have no real interest in the DAC of the former, especially first hand comments from users of the latter with a CDS3 combo are very appreciated! However maybe the Supernait CDS3 combo is just the thing, if so, let me know!

TEF,

If the performance is intermittently good, then I suggest its not a set up or machine issue. CD quality/mixing is very varied as you suggest. I would agree with most of the above meaning that this was the top CD spinner for quite a time and intended to be paired with higher quality amps. I've owned both CDX2 and Still have my CDS3 and never had any quibbles. I'm not planning to get into any source first essays here but my bad news for you, is save up and buy amps higher up the food chain. SH are good value these days. Sorry not to be more help.

Dave

Hi All,

Let me be clear; The CDS3 performance is overall outstanding. THe feeling I described is very subjective and I'm not sure if it really is something at all, or maybe just that my ears are sometimes tired after a long day or something.... Maybe my expectations were a bit  too high as well? What's certain is that the CD5x is a very capable player in itself especially with the FC2x. The CDS3 is just way more exciting.

I'm pretty serious about upgrading to Supernait 2. I think this amp is more on par with the CDS3.

I just got a 4-5 din to connect my FC2x directly to my stageline, and I must say, it's a nice upgrade from the NaitXS Aux2. Must say I haven't listened to the CDS3 since. I read that freeing up the Aux2 can also have a positive effect on sound quality (eg when amplifying the CDS3), does someone have this experience?

Does anyone use the Sn2's Aux2 to power a stageline?....Or I could keep the FC2 just to power the SL (most seem to think the FC is not a good match with SN2). Or I get a Hicap for the SL....

Tef - the SN2 is brilliant but the CDS3 was before the advent of the CD555 the recommended source for the 552/500 - it's that good.  This is highlighted by the fact that its spiritual successor the NDS has been used to front up at Statement demos.  I won’t go back over the PSU issue but to really exploit what is a wonderful CDP I would try to find a good used 282/200 “the window” will really open on the music. On the other hand if you want a one box integrated than the SN2 is the way to go.   

With regard to powering the SL I have quite successfully used the Aux2 on my 282 but I should imagine using the FC would give a better result.  

Good luck. 

Lindsay

Tef, Just wanted to say that I preferred my CDS3 into my NAIT XS and SBLs to CDS3 into my one-time NAC282/ NAP200 and same SBLs.

I do like your idea of getting the Stageline on a FC and not Aux2.

Christopher_M posted:

Tef, Just wanted to say that I preferred my CDS3 into my NAIT XS and SBLs to CDS3 into my one-time NAC282/ NAP200 and same SBLs.

I do like your idea of getting the Stageline on a FC and not Aux2.

So the XS is a better match to the SBLs than the 282/200?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Tef, Just wanted to say that I preferred my CDS3 into my NAIT XS and SBLs to CDS3 into my one-time NAC282/ NAP200 and same SBLs.

I do like your idea of getting the Stageline on a FC and not Aux2.

So the XS is a better match to the SBLs than the 282/200?

For me, in this room, yes.

Christopher_M posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Tef, Just wanted to say that I preferred my CDS3 into my NAIT XS and SBLs to CDS3 into my one-time NAC282/ NAP200 and same SBLs.

I do like your idea of getting the Stageline on a FC and not Aux2.

So the XS is a better match to the SBLs than the 282/200?

For me, in this room, yes.

Interesting. In what way did the 282/200 not work for you vs the XS Chris?

Marksnaim posted:

Christopher_M posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Tef, Just wanted to say that I preferred my CDS3 into my NAIT XS and SBLs to CDS3 into my one-time NAC282/ NAP200 and same SBLs.

I do like your idea of getting the Stageline on a FC and not Aux2.

So the XS is a better match to the SBLs than the 282/200?

For me, in this room, yes.

Interesting. In what way did the 282/200 not work for you vs the XS Chris?

I preferred what I would describe as a leaner, faster, and also very balanced sound, from the XS. So you can infer the 282/200 had more weight. It was also less deft and made music less of a pleasure.

Perol posted:

I found I prefer XS/psu against SN2 so definately listen first

Guess its down to speakers and taste

 

Perhaps the CDS3 is due for service ?

Boy, it's so weird how people hear things so differently, I remember after I sold my Naim 250-2 based system, so after a few years without what I consider a proper hi-fi system, I wanted to get back into a quality system, I purchased a Cyrus integrated amp, the 8 Dac, it was fine, but I really missed the sound of what I had been use to for so many years with my 250-2 based system, so I brought home the XS-2 with a Flatcap XS PS. Thought it was a worthwhile upgrade to the Cyrus gear, it was just about the right amount I wanted to spend, then just for comparison, my dealer had a demo SN2, told me just to try it, didn't really say anything else when I inquired, he just had this smirk on his face.

Instead of going into my own findings, I thought I would just make available a quote from a professional reviewer who's reference gear was the XS-2/PS combo, that is until he reviewed the SN2. See below.

Conclusions about the Naim Supernait 2 Integrated Amplifier

With any brand that has such a devoted user base, there is, understandably, a fear that subsequent generations of equipment are not improvements per se, but part of a business strategy to capture more market share. Predictably, that often requires sacrificing something in an attempt to appeal to a broader audience. Once you hear the Supernait 2, any such fears are laid to rest. It sacrifices none of the hallmark Naim qualities. Instead, it adds real muscle and improves clarity by, among other things, significantly lowering noise. Having watched it murder my XS-2 and Flatcap combination at every turn, it is my new reference.

Everybody hears things differently, and I get that, but the difference between these two integrated amps is so obvious as to which one is the SOO much superior sounding amp, I sometimes wonder what sonic qualities others base their opinions on?