Guide to buying bigger speakers

Huge posted:

I'd be interested to know how many people using large, "full range" speakers in smaller rooms (acoustically speaking that is, i.e. less than 7m in either dimension), have actually measured the LF in-room response; and are hence able to distinguish whether the bass performance actually is good, or whether they themselves just aren't sensitive to these types of bass anomalies.

Guilty, M'Lud.  Our living room has a whopper of a resonance at around 31Hz (other resonance frequencies available upon request!), which may well explain why it was so hard to find a high performance speaker that didn't boom.

The ARTs are fine though.

Best regards, FT

Huge posted:

I'd be interested to know how many people using large, "full range" speakers in smaller rooms (acoustically speaking that is, i.e. less than 7m in either dimension), have actually measured the LF in-room response; and are hence able to distinguish whether the bass performance actually is good, or whether they themselves just aren't sensitive to these types of bass anomalies.

Sitting 2.5m away from my Sopra2, Sopras 2.2m away from each other. I don‘t play loud music but imho this works pretty good. Don‘t feel it has a boomy bass with that level of volume. 

This is the thing, I have always used small 'bass light' speakers, the head phones I use are similar, being electrostatic, super fast and not so full in the bass. I think I would like  a more extended  bass particularly in classical and organ pieces, proper weight of bass without sounding bloated. 

I am quite worried about trading in my 21's, only to end up with a bass bully of a speaker.

I have never understood how anyone can like their music bass-light! Ever since I discovered bass with my first system I have found that in a lot of the music I like it adds so much, underpinning everything else, and with some prog rock the use of bass pedals to create atmosphere simply is lost when you can’t feel the vibration.

PMC speakers might be a good place to start given my current set up, but what about the alternatives? 

Do ATC SCM or BBC monitors get a look in? 

ROOG posted:

PMC speakers might be a good place to start given my current set up, but what about the alternatives? 

Do ATC SCM or BBC monitors get a look in? 

I always thought one should at least once experience BBC monitors. That will help you knowing how a speaker should sound like in the medium frequencies where 80% of musical information lies.

Roog

find a buy a pair of DBLs

then you don’t need to worry about big speakers anymore 

Lyndon

Mayor West posted:

Huge posted:

I'd be interested to know how many people using large, "full range" speakers in smaller rooms (acoustically speaking that is, i.e. less than 7m in either dimension), have actually measured the LF in-room response; and are hence able to distinguish whether the bass performance actually is good, or whether they themselves just aren't sensitive to these types of bass anomalies.

If it sounds good to the listener... does it actually matter?

Indeed it doesn't matter...

Until they start advising others to use such speakers in rooms where they'll excite the bass resonances... without noting that the other person may object to the excessive bass response.

Huge posted:

Mayor West posted:

Huge posted:

I'd be interested to know how many people using large, "full range" speakers in smaller rooms (acoustically speaking that is, i.e. less than 7m in either dimension), have actually measured the LF in-room response; and are hence able to distinguish whether the bass performance actually is good, or whether they themselves just aren't sensitive to these types of bass anomalies.

If it sounds good to the listener... does it actually matter?

Indeed it doesn't matter...

Until they start advising others to use such speakers in rooms where they'll excite the bass resonances... without noting that the other person may object to the excessive bass response.

The converse of course can also apply.

I don’t think anyone should recommend speakers to another person unless they are very well aquainted with the individuals tastes and preferences, and the dimensions, layout and nature of the listening room, as well as the ancillary eqipment. The most any of us should ever do with speakers is suggest possibilities for consideration based on whatever the inquirer has indicated as the sort of thing they want - and suggestions hopefully with some indication of their qualities, or how one they compare to any common reference point (albeit these being very subjective). And of all components, everyone should audition speakers before buying, if possible in their own listening room, but if only possible in the seller’s listening room then with some other reference point, e.g. spwakers they are familiar with at home.

ROOG posted:

Bart posted:

My room is pretty small, and rather "active" due to hard floors, no carpet, and no fabric on the windows.  The room excites pretty quickly and while I too felt I wanted more bass, bigger speakers did NOT help.

I have a subwoofer, and while many audio experts decry use of a sub for true home hi fi, it works wonderfully for me.  It does room sensing, and I have its output set so that it's quite subtle.  It absolutely adds the lower end that I wanted, and when I close my eyes and sit between the speakers on my couch, I cannot detect the bass being localized to the sub.  It truly integrates into the soundstage.  So for me, this is a great solution.  And I get to keep my speakers which I otherwise love so much.

Hi Bart,  Thank you for your input, I greatly appreciate it.

I have not tried a Sub, and when I mentioned buying one, my local HiFi shop talked me out of it. This is an interesting option, keeping the speed of my little PMCs but adding the bottom end.

Which sub did you go for if you don't mind me asking please?  

I have a JL Audio "Fathom" subwoofer.  It's an enclosed cabinet.  

Foot tapper posted:

Huge posted:

I'd be interested to know how many people using large, "full range" speakers in smaller rooms (acoustically speaking that is, i.e. less than 7m in either dimension), have actually measured the LF in-room response; and are hence able to distinguish whether the bass performance actually is good, or whether they themselves just aren't sensitive to these types of bass anomalies.

Guilty, M'Lud.  Our living room has a whopper of a resonance at around 31Hz (other resonance frequencies available upon request!), which may well explain why it was so hard to find a high performance speaker that didn't boom.

The ARTs are fine though.

Best regards, FT

I can confirm FT's ARTs work a treat in his room, no boom to be heard.

Be very, very careful speaker and room matching is an exact science I'm in the process of moving my entire system from one room to another to accomodate speakers. Needless to say not a popular decision with the other more interior design conscious members of the household.  But and I say this with only mild trepidation negotiations are in the advanced stages.

Bob the Builder posted:

Be very, very careful speaker and room matching is an exact science I'm in the process of moving my entire system from one room to another to accomodate speakers. Needless to say not a popular decision with the other more interior design conscious members of the household.  But and I say this with only mild trepidation negotiations are in the advanced stages.

Yes, negotiations frequently are necessary, as is compromise.

We can't have a rug, for the simple reason that our dog will "use" it.  He's fine otherwise....but if there is a rug down there he'll use it when he gets mad at us for leaving him alone.

We can't have fabric window treatments, as they just do not fit the decor.  And we both love mid-century Danish furniture, so we don't have large upholstered pieces for the most part.

• Bart posted:

  ROOG posted:

  Bart posted:

  My room is pretty small, and rather "active" due to hard floors, no carpet, and no fabric on the windows.  The room excites pretty quickly and while I too felt I wanted more bass, bigger speakers did NOT help.

  I have a subwoofer, and while many audio experts decry use of a sub for true home hi fi, it works wonderfully for me.  It does room sensing, and I have its output set so that it's quite subtle.  It absolutely adds the lower end that I wanted, and when I close my eyes and sit between the speakers on my couch, I cannot detect the bass being localized to the sub.  It truly integrates into the soundstage.  So for me, this is a great solution.  And I get to keep my speakers which I otherwise love so much.

  Hi Bart,  Thank you for your input, I greatly appreciate it.

  I have not tried a Sub, and when I mentioned buying one, my local HiFi shop talked me out of it. This is an interesting option, keeping the speed of my little PMCs but adding the bottom end.

  Which sub did you go for if you don't mind me asking please?  

  I have a JL Audio "Fathom" subwoofer.  It's an enclosed cabinet.  

  Thanks Bart, a sub woofer is an option I would like  to explore, as the twenty 21's are discrete and the missus may be less keen on bigger speakers once she has clapped eyes on them.

Bart posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

Be very, very careful speaker and room matching is an exact science I'm in the process of moving my entire system from one room to another to accomodate speakers. Needless to say not a popular decision with the other more interior design conscious members of the household.  But and I say this with only mild trepidation negotiations are in the advanced stages.

Yes, negotiations frequently are necessary, as is compromise.

We can't have a rug, for the simple reason that our dog will "use" it.  He's fine otherwise....but if there is a rug down there he'll use it when he gets mad at us for leaving him alone.

We can't have fabric window treatments, as they just do not fit the decor.  And we both love mid-century Danish furniture, so we don't have large upholstered pieces for the most part.

Luckily my wife, doesn’t like echoey rooms, likes the warmth of curtains, likes large soft upholstery to sink into, and dislikes the necessity of a daily sweep/vacuum of a hard floor!

There can be practical difficulties around room arrangement, and certain choices of speaker, for example, may be unacceptable (size or style) , but she understands and accepts that having a serious music replay sustem with serious speakers is a part of me and we are not here to change one another to something else, so she accepts, for example, that when house hunting my first focus after price and location is whether the lounge or another room is suitable for a music room.