Hicap DR vs Supercap DR on NAC 282

Posted by: ryder. on 27 January 2018

I have read about the comparison between the Hicap DR vs (2 x Hicap DR) vs Supercap DR on the NAC282 but most of the impressions are rather brief. The most comprehensive writeup I have found so far is detailed in the link below by Megge but the thread is locked.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...nd-soundstage?page=2

Alright, my dealer has been at my place yesterday and I asked him to bring along the agreed 250DR and SupercapDR but also asked him to bring another HicapDR in order to take a stepped approach starting with 250DR all the way up to SCDR.

So first we hooked up the 250DR on my NDX/282/HCDR which initially didn’t convince me at the dealer’s place. It was bloated and too much for that room with those Neat XLS speakers at that time. So I was bit nervous what was going to happen here. Now once hooked up it was a complete revelation for my ears. The soundstage expanded greatly when listening to the Dark Knight and Pirates of the Caribbean soundtracks. I heard plenty of that bass reminding me of my PSBs but its control and detail was exceptional. No sign of muddiness or bloated soundstage. Also the “thinness” I was initially complaining about was gone. Everything sat right in its place and put a big smile on my face. The only thing that I noticed was that instruments (listened to “Concerning Hobbits”) still had some thinness like missing some body around to sound more present in the whole context of the song. Highs were also a bit on the bright side, but nothing tragic at all I’d say.

So next was the Hicap DR in line to get connected in addition to my already existing one. Also the 250DR was still connected in order to listen to the upgrade progression while building the systems. My dealer said he has like 5 out 10 customers where there is no improvement with 2 HCDRs at all whereas with some others they do hear some step-up in their room/speaker/system context. So what did the second HCDR do? It actually did some great step-up in my place. These highs which were a bit on the bright side and the thinness of instruments were gone. Things now placed themselves seamless into the musical overall picture of the tracks I heard and did not fall short of presence anymore. Also the soundstage became deeper by a small margin and low frequencies had better definition/contour. So it seems that the separation of power to the individual channels of the 282 did do some magic and I was actually very glad to hear this and glad that I asked my dealer short-term to bring a second HCDR along.

Now at last there was the SupercapDR. In exchange of the two HCDRs the improvement was immediate. Soundstage widened by a big margin into all directions. Low frequency control as well as its details got pronounced better and more solid. Instruments have been pulled wider (width and depth) apart in space if I may say so which made locating them on stage easier. An even bigger step forward were mids’ and highs’ details and transparency as well as timing. Especially the timing was second to none compared to the setup with both HCDRs. Now while listening to the SCDR in my system I felt that even though everything was a big leap forward the musical enjoyment and overall musical picture that draws me in did lack a bit to my ears due to (probably) the greater transparency and details the SCDR offered. So I had the fear that longer listening sessions would get my ears tired but that’s only an assumption I could make at that time. In terms of additional financial layout for the SCDR I also thought that it was not worth it for now unless I’d go up the ladder later, and this is not in near sight atm.

So in the end I of course opted for the most obvious and took the 250DR which REALLY, REALLY made my speakers sing. It was the best and most significant upgrade from all combinations mentioned before. However and this was the least expected from my side I also bought the second HicapDR because it placed the music to another level for me in the whole context of my room/speakers/system. My dealer made me an overall offer which I could not resist (including the return of my 202/200) which would have never been possible if I’d have bought the amp and PS separately.

By all means the SCDR is an amazing performer and shows what the 282 may be capable of. However, and this is to my ears only and mentioned this a couple of posts before, a 282/SCDR would need a better source (at least NDX+XPSDR) and a 300DR to bring back that musical enjoyment for me which I shortly heard in my dealer’s demo some time ago. But that would be 6 full width boxes vs my 3 and 2 HCDRs (which comfortably reside on top of each other on another small shelf), and not to speak of the additional financial stretch. Also the temptation to go for a 252 when a SCDR is already at home would at least for me be hard to resist at some point of time. In any case right now I have that very good feeling that this system/speaker combo (NDX/282/HCDR x2/250DR/PMC fact.8) may be all I want for a very long time J

I have tried connecting both outputs of the NAC282 but not with a Supercap DR. My impressions are similar to Megge's when both outputs of the 282 are connected with the Hicap DR. The treble sounds a bit softer and the slight thinness is gone with both outputs connected. The bass also has better definition. The treble especially piano sounds more lively with a single Hicap DR connected although the notes may sound a little bright, sharp or piercing.

To those who have compared the Supercap DR to the Hicap DR on the NAC 282, questions as follows:-

1. How does the treble compare between the Supercap DR, 2 x Hicap DR and 1 x Hicap DR, specifically the tone of the piano. The highs with two (2) Hicap DR are smoother and less shouty than a single Hicap DR. How does it sound with the Supercap DR. Does piano sound more like a single Hicap DR (brighter and more vibrant), or two Hicap DR (smoother and slightly dull, lacking in a bit of sparkle).

2. Does the Supercap DR further improve on the bass definition of 2 x Hicap DR.

3. Does the Supercap DR make the NAC 282 sound larger than life than 2 x Hicap DR (or 1 x Hicap DR).

4. Basically, does anyone else share the same experience as Megge.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by analogmusic

so maybe those with a 282 should really stay put with the HCDR

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by cat345

ryder. posted:
That’s it. I have been listening to the 282/Hicap DR for a day and reached a rather definitive conclusion after going back to two outputs connected. From my previous long and short term comparisons which pretty much coincide with the experience from the particular member above (Megge), the summary is as detailed below.
Note that my impressions are only with A and B (it does not necessarily need to be Hicap DR but the older Hicap 2 or Hicap 1).
A) NAC 282 + Hicap DR
An overall lighter presentation with a brighter tone. Sound is a little flat and 2-dimensional if compared to B.
Details in the background sound slightly smeared with less definition than B. Bass shows slightly less definition although still sounding tight and taut.
B) NAC 282 + (2 X Hicap DR)
An overall heavier, warmer and meatier presentation when compared to A due to the added body. Apart from a slight reduction in brightness, there is added weight to the sound. Slightly more definition and control across the frequency spectrum than A which eliminate the smearing of notes. A slightly punchier sound (improved macrodynamics) which made A sound a little flat in comparison.
A slight improvement in soundstage which gives a 3-dimensional feel. There is more space between instruments.
The tone of instruments especially piano sounds more realistic with both outputs of the 282 connected. Piano sounds brighter and a little flat or hollow with one output connected (in A above).
C) NAC 282 + Supercap DR
I presume more of everything from B, or A?

Your conclusion is similar to Martin Colloms's review of the Nac 82 in the April 1993 issue of HIFI News!

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by ryder.

Thanks Adam. That surely clears things up. Your case just shows that more isn't always better. I guess you are one of the few who did not like what the Supercap DR did to the 282. You didn't mention how the 282/SupercapDR wasn't enjoyable but if the Supercap DR magnified the effect of two Hicap DR (from a single Hicap DR) I suspect the sound grew too warm or heavy with a presentation that's overly enthusiastic or dynamic. A single Hicap DR surely sounds nice and quite balanced with the 282 and 250 DR. Light and Fleet-footed.

I am aware you do not wish to spoil the balance of the system but if you have the opportunity to try a second Hicap DR on the 282 you might want to consider it. Two Hicap DR may not sound as poor as the Supercap DR (although it is the other way round for most people here).

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by ryder.

cat345 posted:
Your conclusion is similar to Martin Colloms's review of the Nac 82 in the April 1993 issue of HIFI News!

I guess I need to search for that article although I'm more than 20 years late!

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by antony d

i asked the same question to my dealer yesterday - currently 282/HCDR - into 300 DR when it comes back from Salisbury

my dealer will lend me a SCDR once 300 settled in for home demo

or the 300DR is that superb dont need to upgrade to SCDR??? and keep to 282/HCDR

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by analogmusic

I'll go out on a a limb and say that interconnect changes to Naim genuine cables should not be down on the list of upgrades to consider.

you really should try a genuine Naim interconnect between the QBD76 and your 282 - particularly the Lavender RCA to DIN it isn't particularly expensive but superb really.

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by wenger2015

analogmusic posted:
I'll go out on a a limb and say that interconnect changes to Naim genuine cables should not be down on the list of upgrades to consider.
you really should try a genuine Naim interconnect between the QBD76 and your 282 - particularly the Lavender RCA to DIN it isn't particularly expensive but superb really.

Everyone to their own but high end cables really do make a considerable difference....

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by MDS

wenger2015 posted:
analogmusic posted:
I'll go out on a a limb and say that interconnect changes to Naim genuine cables should not be down on the list of upgrades to consider.
you really should try a genuine Naim interconnect between the QBD76 and your 282 - particularly the Lavender RCA to DIN it isn't particularly expensive but superb really.

Everyone to their own but high end cables really do make a considerable difference....

They certainly have in my system.

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by cat345

ryder. posted:
cat345 posted:
Your conclusion is similar to Martin Colloms's review of the Nac 82 in the April 1993 issue of HIFI News!
I guess I need to search for that article although I'm more than 20 years late!

Martin Colloms Quote :

'' A second Hi-Cap was now added to the 82, a very simple fix. Worth only 30-40% of the lift brought about by the first Hi-Cap, the second did nonetheless deliver as advertised, with a wider, deeper and more focused soundstage, and another extra dose of dynamics.''

As they say, the more the things change, the more they stay the same!

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by kaydee6

Ryder, if you plan t get a supercap for the 282, then you should just go 252 too. Are you in Singapore? I believe the local dealer has a used 252 on hand.

Posted on: 28 January 2018 by feeling_zen

FWIW, I went from a 282/HCDR to SCDR within 6 months so was comparing a new HCDR in it's run in prime to a new SCDR. I've documented my findings a few years ago on the forum. But in general I would say I agree with the findings from the quote you provided.

Low frequency separation was vastly improved. You could heard baseline notes clearly with the HCDR, withthe SCDR you could now hear them being played.
Soundstage changed to include a front to back dimension

It is worth noting that while the above changes for me were striking and very satisfying in terms of getting that jam session feel in the room, I noticed absolutely nothing at the higher end of the frequency range. That is not to detract from the SCDRs merits but just honest. I had to add a bunch of power lines to system to get that half of the equation.

But again, context is critical. There is a minority on the forum who have perfectly good ears who found the SCDR just pushed the 282 over the top and preferred the HCDR but some margin. So there is no guaranteeing that since 90% of people who did this change liked it, you will too. And it is not a change in isolation either. I'm sure the changes a SCDR bring about depend greatly on everything else too, from source, to cables, to power amp and speakers. I loved what it did in my system, but I have no problem imagining it not working in another context just like absolutely any other component change could be good or bad irrespective of the merits of the component itself.

Posted on: 30 January 2018 by The Strat (Fender)

Well - first impressions on demo - fundamental improvements across the performance. Certainly moe entail in the bass and middle but in the treble Imelda sounds more haunting and expressive.

Posted on: 08 February 2018 by Winson

I had recently purchased a 282/HCDR/250dr n added an nDAC too. I queried my dealer on adding a second HCDR and was advised the improvement is subtled compared to the money u spent to get the second HCDR. Hope this help. Of course as many had said, SQ is subjective n its about balance too. Nothing beats a demo at ur home.

Posted on: 08 February 2018 by The Strat (Fender)

I’ve tried both of my HC s (non DR) on my 282. Improvement I would say more than subtle but the SC is far far greater.

Regards,

Lindsay

Posted on: 09 February 2018 by MDS

The Strat (Fender) posted:
I’ve tried both of my HC s (non DR) on my 282. Improvement I would say more than subtle but the SC is far far greater.
Regards,
Lindsay

Yep. I'd say putting a SC on a 282 is one of those 'wow' moments. Took me only seconds to decide I had to have a SC, such was the scale of the performance lift.

Posted on: 09 February 2018 by The Strat (Fender)

Confirmation if Richard Dane’s point in another thread about fundamental PSUs are to Naim design.

Regards,

Lindsay