Alternative to NACA5 speaker cable

NJB, see the FAQ:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

There are alternatives, for sure, but to "improve" on what NACA5 brings (in some, mainly cosmetic areas, perhaps, but certainly not all) means spending quite a lot more money.  

Richard Dane posted:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

Even with Super Lumina? Can it be supplied at that length cost effectively or do you have to buy 5 metre pairs?

I've bedn using NACA5 for 22 years. Nothing better. The best thing you can do is buy more. 9m lengths here in Valhalla, significantly better contorl and tone than the 3.5 minimum. At least after 20 years yours will be nicely burned in. 

I've just replaced my too-short NACA4 with two four-metre lengths of Chord Epic. 

Even well before any appreciable burn-in time, they are seriously impressive.

Open, solid-as-a-rock stereo staging but with no loss of the tapping of the foot.

Unhesitatingly recommended.

NJB

There are any number of alternatives to NACA5 at various price points, Naim's alternative being the Super Lumina which probably sits outside your criterion of sensible prices!  Similarly, the upper range of Chord (Sarum, Music) and Tellurium Q (black diamond) are very expensive.

The thing I have found with cables is that they all have slightly different characteristics which can be used in a sense as tuning mechanisms between the hi-fi source components, speakers and the room in which you are trying to play music.  My slightly long winded way of saying, you are best served borrowing cables to try out in your room.  My mix did not work well with NACA5 and I have used Chord cables which I found suited my needs. They may not work for you.  Ideally, I'd suggest you arrange to borrow some sets from your local dealer if that is possible for greatest probability of finding a solution which works for you on sound/ cost/ aesthetics.  If you live near north London I could lend you a set of chord epic twin and signature cables which would allow you to play with two alternatives to NACA5, albeit neither are particularly delicate/ optimal for small diameter bends!

Peter

Chris Dolan posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

Even with Super Lumina? Can it be supplied at that length cost effectively or do you have to buy 5 metre pairs?

I don’t know about Super Lumina. Refer to Naim’s own recommendation here. 

If you really do need the cable to be flexible & bendy the best I found for this is the unscreened Chord's.  I've used Chord Odyssey for a number of years (Odyssey is the same internal cable as the screened Epic)    It bends remarkably easily,  it takes a tight radius & most impressive is it very inert, it bends & stays bent & does not try to spring back.      

You will need 6m to get the 3.5uH inductive load  & to be the same as the 3.5m NACA5 minimum recommended for your 250.2.        Also if you want to roll up the cable in a circle (to hide the extra metres)  best advise is don't do that,  fold it into a concertina (zig-zag) 

I'm currently enjoying Witchhat N2 speaker cable. This replaced very old NACA4 - and i'm delighted with the results. Economically priced, pretty flexible and easy to route. They have also recently introduced a higher end Phantom speaker cable too, which looks promising. If I need to upgrade / change the system location with different cable runs, then I'd certainly be investigating that new Phantom cable.

I didn't compare N2 to NACA5, simply as NACA5 was never really in consideration due to the cable stiffness, and thought it would be a real challenge fitting in location.

Richard Dane posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

Even with Super Lumina? Can it be supplied at that length cost effectively or do you have to buy 5 metre pairs?

I don’t know about Super Lumina. Refer to Naim’s own recommendation here. 

The shortest length Naim supply SuperLumina as standard is 3m and I own a 3m pair of these. SL clearly does not need to comply with exactly the same length rules as NACA5 but I would guess longer is better (for some reason Sid James and the Carry On crew popped into my head….hyuk, hyuk) also with SL, at a serious price premium however.

I have been using the Witch Hat Phantom speaker cable since New Years Eve, I think they are superb value. Their presentation is very open and alive with great Bass. I have used NACA5 and Tellurium q black. The A5 was to short at only 2m so I may have not heard them at their best.

WH offer a 30 day money back guarantee, mine are staying.

Hi, I used Witch Hat N2 for a while, I chose them as they are more flexible than NACA5. I now have the WH Phantom cable, which Im very pleased with and a noticable improvement (to me) in both audio & flexibilty over the N2 which my son now has for his system.

 my Phantom cables are also staying ,

I’d suggest Tellurium Q Black, which you can pick up secondhand at good prices. It’s thin and bendy, and I preferred it to A5 when I had some PMC speakers. I wouldn’t go shorter than 3 or 3.5 metres though - I had 4m ones that I bought used for £120. I’ve tried Chord Odyssey and found that it made the music boring and uninvolving. Others like it though. 

Or just stick with A5: other cables are different but not necessarily better. Its stiffness is a right pain though. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Or just stick with A5: other cables are different but not necessarily better. Its stiffness is a right pain though. 

Is there a rationale for it being so stiff - I was disappointed years ago with this aspect having started off with A4 which was nice and pliable.

Chris Dolan posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

Even with Super Lumina? Can it be supplied at that length cost effectively or do you have to buy 5 metre pairs?

You should be able to buy a 4m pair of SL speaker cables because I did exactly that at the normal per metre cost.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I’d suggest Tellurium Q Black, which you can pick up secondhand at good prices. It’s thin and bendy, and I preferred it to A5 when I had some PMC speakers. I wouldn’t go shorter than 3 or 3.5 metres though - ...

I agree. The TQB is excellent and, for me, one of the easiest upgrade decisions I’ve made. I use 5m either run.

G

sjbabbey posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

Even with Super Lumina? Can it be supplied at that length cost effectively or do you have to buy 5 metre pairs?

You should be able to buy a 4m pair of SL speaker cables because I did exactly that at the normal per metre cost.

You can now get SL speaker cables in 4, 6 and 8m lengths. Originally they were only available in 3, 5, 7 and 9m lengths, which seemed rather odd. 

My experience with speaker cable is fairly minimal, and I've never tried NACA due to fact that I need 10 meters to each speaker and it is cost prohibitive, but you could consider Speltz Anti-Cable.  Solid core and stiff, but cheap as chips and works well with my Nait 2.  

Part of me wonders if the "3.5meters of NACA minimum" is a bit restrictive and unnecessary.  My Nait performs flawlessly with the Speltz with no signs of 'distress'.  Maybe the Speltz and NACA have similar electrical characteristics?

Hungryhalibut posted:

sjbabbey posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

Even with Super Lumina? Can it be supplied at that length cost effectively or do you have to buy 5 metre pairs?

You should be able to buy a 4m pair of SL speaker cables because I did exactly that at the normal per metre cost.

You can now get SL speaker cables in 4, 6 and 8m lengths. Originally they were only available in 3, 5, 7 and 9m lengths, which seemed rather odd. 

Pun intended? 

nigelb posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

Even with Super Lumina? Can it be supplied at that length cost effectively or do you have to buy 5 metre pairs?

I don’t know about Super Lumina. Refer to Naim’s own recommendation here. 

The shortest length Naim supply SuperLumina as standard is 3m and I own a 3m pair of these. SL clearly does not need to comply with exactly the same length rules as NACA5 but I would guess longer is better (for some reason Sid James and the Carry On crew popped into my head….hyuk, hyuk) also with SL, at a serious price premium however.

Whilst Im sure SL would bring a significant improvement, the OP also states: can anybody recommend any that are sensible prices?  which is open to interpretation but I would say around the £30 - £50 a metre range. For those who dont have £2-£3K to splash on cables, I consider the Witch Hat Phantom offering extremely good value for money at its price point.

MDS posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

sjbabbey posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Speaker Cables for Naim Amplifiers

Your NAP250.2 most certainly needs to strictly comply with Naim's speaker cabling recommendations, 3.5m per channel being the absolute minimum. 

Even with Super Lumina? Can it be supplied at that length cost effectively or do you have to buy 5 metre pairs?

You should be able to buy a 4m pair of SL speaker cables because I did exactly that at the normal per metre cost.

You can now get SL speaker cables in 4, 6 and 8m lengths. Originally they were only available in 3, 5, 7 and 9m lengths, which seemed rather odd. 

Pun intended? 

Surely not?

Hmmm, the odds do seem stacked in support of your theory....

Peter

Lo-Fi posted:

....and I've never tried NACA due to fact that I need 10 meters to each speaker and it is cost prohibitive

I never expected to read a claim of NACA speaker cable being 'cost prohibitive'. 

It's usually considered to be one naim audio's best value for money products!  

If it's because of personal financial limitations you have my sympathy  

Debs

naim_nymph posted:

Lo-Fi posted:

....and I've never tried NACA due to fact that I need 10 meters to each speaker and it is cost prohibitive

I never expected to read a claim of NACA speaker cable being 'cost prohibitive'. 

It's usually considered to be one naim audio's best value for money products!  

If it's because of personal financial limitations you have my sympathy  

Debs

Well, Debs, that's going to be in the region of £600 at roughly £30 pm. Although I agree, still one of the cheaper products.

A well known dealer of some repute, dropped stocking A5 and went to Atlas Hyper 2.0 for their Naim gear. It happened to be a slightly lower price but ultimately, after selling Naim and A4 and then A5 ever since the cables first existed, they found the Atlas worked better and was easier to work around bends too. 

I'd used A5 in a previous non Naim system and was perfectly happy with it, but went on my dealer's advice and indeed the not so pricey Atlas Hyper 2.0 works excellently.

You don't see much if anything on the forum about Atlas cables or interconnects, despite Atlas actually testing their cables in the design stage with Naim gear (so I have been told).

Alley Cat posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Or just stick with A5: other cables are different but not necessarily better. Its stiffness is a right pain though. 

Is there a rationale for it being so stiff - I was disappointed years ago with this aspect having started off with A4 which was nice and pliable.

I've never been that bothered by the stiffness. Where there's a will there's a way. A bit of Yuri Geller did the trick to stop it form snagging on the back of the Fraim, and then we have lovely arcing lines from the back of the Keilidhs under the carpet. Rather artistic methought. I've not tried the hairdryer techniques but understand that  it works well.

Presumably SQ at a premium and the sheathing does its job cost effectively.

It's for what hair shirts were invented.

And if nothing else, relax, use your ears not your eyes.