What has the biggest sound improvement?

Consciousmess posted:

....

What I’m trying to ask is digital has less possibilities of signal (1s and 0s), analogue many more.

So - digital signals are transmitted as ones and zeros?

Is this true? How simple this all suddenly seems. 

As Adam indirectly point out (in his own inimitable style), the 1s and 0s are transmitted using a digitally modulated analogue signal (with all the possibilities of noise and time variance that are present in all analogue signals)...

Thus the premise of digital transmission "just being 1s and 0s" falls spectacularly.

Dear Conciousmess,

I can follow your logic, but frankly there are far too many confounding variables for that simple logic to apply.  The ONLY way you’ll ever find out which cable brings the most bang for the buck is to replace both, do a before and after listen and see which ‘improvement’ or ‘change’ you prefer.

Transmitting digital signals successfully along a wire is probably no less challenging that an analog signal and the old chestnut, “its only ones and zeros” really is a fallacy.  The one big difference between analog and digital signals is that digital signals can be ‘reconditioned’ to some degree, whereas analog can’t. In analog, you try to keep the signal pristine before it goes for final amplification whereas in digital, the signal can be conditioned and made pristine before transmission. But transmitting a pristine analog or digital signal are both challenging, in the own different ways. 

Hmmm.

I’m understanding the premise, it’s not rocket surgery.

And. It’s a good point.

When an analogue signal is transmitted, the whole of the analogue waveform is of significance.

When a digital signal is transmitted the whole of the analogue waveform ISN’T of significance. Only a portion of the waveform is of significance.

If you have some good analog interconnect lying around, you can always use it for digital.

True that you can use a single rca analogue designated cable as a digital coaxial.

maybe " digital" versions have some tweaked electrical properties, certainly bnc 75ohm jobs.

Somewhat down market from where you're looking I suspect. I wanted a DAC as a stand in to play music from my Core until Naim release something to replace or improve on the NDS, expecting I might need to wait several years. I'd tried a Rega DAC-r and a Chord 2qute, cables for these demos were Chord Clearway and Shawline. The 2qute sounded sterile the Rega a little short on energy. I'd read about the  4794R 12G video cable from Belden used as a digital interconnect in a Jon Honeyball thread so ordered one on spec (£20 + the same again postege from the states and tax) it arrived and on the 2qute relieved some of the sterility though not enough. I was going to try the Hugo but the price was starting to rise further than I liked for a temporary solution and as I have a Rega system in the spare room to retire the DAC to later I ordered the DAC-r. One annoying thing about the Rega is they didn't see fit to include a BNC connector so I couldn't use the Belden cable until I got a converter. In the interim I tried a half meter of Chord silver siren interconnect I had lying around, it worked OK, not much different to the clearway digital cable I thought. A BNC to RCA converter turned up in due course and the Belden cable was a revelation on the Rega DAC-r addressing most of the livelyness issues it had, still not quite the boogie of a CDX2 though not so far off the timing on the leading edge but more detailed and the detail didn't deem out of place, most importantly it became an enjoyable listen into a 552 via Chord Crimson RCAs beating a CDX2 via Hiline for classical music by a fair bit. I doubt it would live with some of the more esoteric cables and or maybe even the DC1 but on a £600 DAC there's a limit to how much I'll spend on its cable and it's below £400. I've never had such a positive result from an analog interconnect, including the super lumina (which I didn't buy but I had a 282 at the time). So yes digital cables can make quite a difference in the right context. A 12G video cable will have a pretty accurate 75Ω  charateristic impedance at a guess.

Innocent Bystander posted:

cat345 posted:

If you have some good analog interconnect lying around, you can always use it for digital.

You can, but might not be beneficial if its characteristic impedance is not close to 110Ω. (Impedance not so critical with analog.)

In theory, the impedance of a digital cable and connectors should be 75 ohms but if an analogue interconnect sound better I would use that.

Would be interesting how a pair of DC1 cables with bnc to rca adapters would compare to an rca terminated Hi-Line for those running a non DIN connected analogue source.

cat345 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

cat345 posted:

If you have some good analog interconnect lying around, you can always use it for digital.

You can, but might not be beneficial if its characteristic impedance is not close to 110Ω. (Impedance not so critical with analog.)

In theory, the impedance of a digital cable and connectors should be 75 ohms but if an analogue interconnect sound better I would use that.

75Ω is indeed correct for SPDIF, and other cables might not be beneficial if they have a characteristic impedance that is not close to this (Impedance not so critical with analog). But of course, if it sounds good then the theoretical mismatch doesn’t matter.

Thanks Car345 for spotting, and apologies to anyone confused;  for some reason in my earlier post I was thinking AES/EBU. Deleted now 

, 

Innocent Bystander posted:

cat345 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

cat345 posted:

If you have some good analog interconnect lying around, you can always use it for digital.

You can, but might not be beneficial if its characteristic impedance is not close to 110Ω. (Impedance not so critical with analog.)

In theory, the impedance of a digital cable and connectors should be 75 ohms but if an analogue interconnect sound better I would use that.

75Ω is indeed correct for SPDIF;  for some reason in my earlier post I was thinking AES/EBU. 

 

AES/EBU.         Who used this ever.  Was it any good ??

TOBYJUG posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

cat345 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

cat345 posted:

If you have some good analog interconnect lying around, you can always use it for digital.

You can, but might not be beneficial if its characteristic impedance is not close to 110Ω. (Impedance not so critical with analog.)

In theory, the impedance of a digital cable and connectors should be 75 ohms but if an analogue interconnect sound better I would use that.

75Ω is indeed correct for SPDIF;  for some reason in my earlier post I was thinking AES/EBU. 

 

AES/EBU.         Who used this ever.  Was it any good ??

I believe it is used a lot in pro audio. And IIRC when Richard Dane was playing with digital converters a year or two ago he used it. Anyone who uses balanced interconnects using XLR connectors may come across references to being suitable for AES/EBU, denoting that the impedance suits that use. But when I mentioned the impedance, that was simply a mental block, with for whatever reason the 110Ω simply coming to mind.

My biggest improvement has come from stopping reading threads like this and wondering/worrying about improvements.

That’s worked well, then. 

Another fairly elucidating thread. I think interconnects be them digital or analogue are overlooked too much and upgrade wise, they’re a place to go, especially with high resolution digital which is without a shadow of a doubt the best format of all mediums.  16bit 44.1kHz is so old school.