Comrade Corbyn

Dozey - maybe, maybe not.   But the thread is about Jeremy Corbyn.  I make this point the primary role of Government is to ensure the security of its people.   The Labour leader has proven himself wholly irresponsible and lacking any sense of priority.   

Dozey posted:

To be honest the Russians can do what they like in the UK and they know it. The UK has no retaliation which will make any difference. We will just look stupid for making further empty threats.

We can seize Russian assets in Britain.

In time of war that is perfectly acceptable.  Since a military asset was deployed on foreign soil, if Russia cannot show this action to have been committed by rogue agent or foreign power; then, in international law, that is an act of war that constitutes a declaration of war by the Russians (N.B. it's a declaration of war by the Russians, not by us!).  We are entitled to at least temporarily treat Russia as a hostile power.  We can legitimately seize assets and, even without trial, we can inter all citizens of hostile powers.

I'm not advocating doing these just yet (particularly not the latter), but I think they are a couple of things that may make a difference to Russia.  To say that "The UK has no retaliation which will make any difference." is patently not correct.

I agree with Huge. Some very strong action needs to be taken against Russia and Russian interests in the UK.

We need to negotiate some very strong counter measures with our European and American friends. Hopefully, the sacking of Rex Tillerson (who made some pretty strong statements about the Russian involvement in the Salisbury poisoning) by Trump this morning won't impact the position that the US takes on the incident. However, given recent astonishing events over the past couple of days relating to Russia in the States, then quite frankly - your guess is as good as mine.  

Let's wait and see. 

Huge posted:

 

....We can seize Russian assets in Britain.

 

Does that include all Russian money donations to Tory Party funds?

It'll financially bankrupt the Tory Party!

naim_nymph posted:

Huge posted:

 

....We can seize Russian assets in Britain.

 

Does that include all Russian money donations to Tory Party funds?

It'll financially bankrupt the Tory Party!

 

How about we turn all Russian assets into funds for the Tory party?   

Problem solved.   

The Strat (Fender) posted:

be deselected as MP for Camden. 

Just for the record ... he's an MP for Islington not Camden.

Huge posted:

naim_nymph posted:

Huge posted:

 

....We can seize Russian assets in Britain.

 

Does that include all Russian money donations to Tory Party funds?

It'll financially bankrupt the Tory Party!

 

How about we turn all Russian assets into funds for the Tory party?   

Problem solved.   

It doesn't need that amount, the Kremlin already owns the Tory Party with Russian funding.

This is probably why Comrade May & the Tory Brexit Party has gone against UK national interest and democracy, and gone hell for leather to leave the EU, their Russian paymasters demand nothing less.

naim_nymph posted:

Huge posted:

naim_nymph posted:

Huge posted:

 

....We can seize Russian assets in Britain.

 

Does that include all Russian money donations to Tory Party funds?

It'll financially bankrupt the Tory Party!

 

How about we turn all Russian assets into funds for the Tory party?   

Problem solved.   

It doesn't need that amount, the Kremlin already owns the Tory Party with Russian funding.

This is probably why Comrade May & the Tory Brexit Party has gone against UK national interest and democracy, and gone hell for leather to leave the EU, their Russian paymasters demand nothing less.

I've learnt to hate the Russians through my whole life, if another war comes its them we must fight.

THEBIGFREDC posted:

"I've learnt to hate the Russians through my whole life, if another war comes its them we must fight".

How utterly absurd!

You mean you hate "them" even more than our European friends? I hope your comment was meant to be tongue in check.  

Hmack posted:

THEBIGFREDC posted:

"I've learnt to hate the Russians through my whole life, if another war comes its them we must fight".

How utterly absurd!

You mean you hate "them" even more than our European friends? I hope your comment was meant to be tongue in check.  

 

It's a quotation from the Dylan song With God on Our Side.

Thanks EOINK. 

THEBIGFREDC - glad it was probably tongue in cheek, although considering you named this thread, and looking at a number of your posts in the thread, I'm still not totally convinced.

naim_nymph posted:

Huge posted:

naim_nymph posted:

Huge posted:

 

....We can seize Russian assets in Britain.

 

Does that include all Russian money donations to Tory Party funds?

It'll financially bankrupt the Tory Party!

 

How about we turn all Russian assets into funds for the Tory party?   

Problem solved.   

It doesn't need that amount, the Kremlin already owns the Tory Party with Russian funding.

This is probably why Comrade May & the Tory Brexit Party has gone against UK national interest and democracy, and gone hell for leather to leave the EU, their Russian paymasters demand nothing less.

How has Teresa May gone against democracy. She is enacting the expressed wish of the people even though she was a remainer herself.   And I say that as a passionate rremainer and non-Tory voter.  

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

naim_nymph posted:

Huge posted:

naim_nymph posted:

Huge posted:

 

....We can seize Russian assets in Britain.

 

Does that include all Russian money donations to Tory Party funds?

It'll financially bankrupt the Tory Party!

 

How about we turn all Russian assets into funds for the Tory party?   

Problem solved.   

It doesn't need that amount, the Kremlin already owns the Tory Party with Russian funding.

This is probably why Comrade May & the Tory Brexit Party has gone against UK national interest and democracy, and gone hell for leather to leave the EU, their Russian paymasters demand nothing less.

How has Teresa May gone against democracy. She is enacting the expressed wish of the people even though she was a remainer herself.   And I say that as a passionate rremainer and non-Tory voter.  

Regards,

Lindsay

What has been proven by the referendum result on 23rd June 2016 is that the will of the UK people is to remain in the EU. The 17.4 million leave vote isn't anywhere near enough to commit to leaving the EU. On the same day 29 million electorate didn't vote to leave the EU, and that's not including the 16 & 17 year olds who were deliberately & inappropriately denied the vote because the Tory/UKIP party know most would vote to remain, and then there's the estimated 4 million UK people who are not on the electoral register, mostly due to Tory austerity measures that create homelessness, rough sleeping, sofa-surfers, inadequate sheltered accommodation, no fixed abode, they can't get registered to vote - the Tory/UKIP government don't give a damn about them because they know most are young and would vote to remain in the EU. Basically the referendum election was too heavily flawed and rigged in favour of leaving the EU. The result should be null and voided, especially as other concerns have been confirmed such as the weekly £360 million to the NHS Whopper.

People in the UK have been really conned by the fascicle Tory contrived cock-up referendum, it maybe a lot of things, expression of many Britons hatred of Johny Foreigner, Racism, Fascism, Popularism, a good deal for tax-haven millionaires... but whatever it is, democracy is ain't. 

Teresa May is a disgusting turncoat, she voted remain but when offered a Prime Minister job opportunity she jumped at the chance for her own selfish career prospects and damn the EU and remain voter, you can never ever trust anyone like that. On the day she said Brexit Means Brexit she knew how populist and contentious the whole stinky issue is, and Brexit Means Fascism would be too close to the truth, so the new Tory Brexit Party führer said 'Brexit Means Brexit" which has served really well for the gullible.

Debs

Looks like Putin is using the UK as his preferred playground for settling scores with those who fell out with him in Russia. I also see Nikolai Grushkov, another Putin enemy, has been found strangled in New Malden. which he was unlikely to have done by himself. Commie Corbyn also seems to have been falling over himself to avoid any words of recrimination for Putin further nailing the traitor's colours of allegiance to anywhere but the UK. The man is an utter disgrace. 

As our politicians have allowed the country to be the dustbin for a significant proportion of the detritus of the world, we can hardly be surprised when vendettas are settled in our very open and over-tolerant society. 

Eoink posted:

Hmack posted:

THEBIGFREDC posted:

"I've learnt to hate the Russians through my whole life, if another war comes its them we must fight".

How utterly absurd!

You mean you hate "them" even more than our European friends? I hope your comment was meant to be tongue in check.  

 

It's a quotation from the Dylan song With God on Our Side.

Yep, Eoink got it, an absolute Dylan classic with poignant words.

I also loved the Half Man Half Biscuit's version with Goth on Our Side.

Resurrection posted:

Looks like Putin is using the UK as his preferred playground for settling scores with those who fell out with him in Russia. I also see Nikolai Grushkov, another Putin enemy, has been found strangled in New Malden. which he was unlikely to have done by himself. Commie Corbyn also seems to have been falling over himself to avoid any words of recrimination for Putin further nailing the traitor's colours of allegiance to anywhere but the UK. The man is an utter disgrace. 

As our politicians have allowed the country to be the "dustbin for a significant proportion of the detritus of the world", we can hardly be surprised when vendettas are settled in our very open and over-tolerant society. 

Unless these are also lines from a Dylan song, then you have personally gone too far and are an utter disgrace. I don't swear, but was tempted to include a swear word here.

The second sentence I have highlighted in your post is on the fringe of being blatantly and openly racist.  

Well my name it is Dai Young
I’m the King of Welsh Goth
The village I come from
Is near Abersoch
I was brought up on Bauhaus
And black bedroom walls
And I had my first Snakebite
When I was in halls

Now the graveyard is calling
The sky’s getting greyer
I’ll drink the warm blood of
The Borough Surveyor
And I’ll murder the Verger
I’ve seen how he gawps
And I’ll write on his headstone:
“Here lies Jones the Corpse”

Now my overweight girlfriend
She sits and she crimps
Her mother’s convinced she’s
Communing with imps
Her brother’s alright though
He’s a good lad is Wilf
‘Cos he’s into Placebo
And Cradle Of Filth

At my gig up in Butlins
The Redcoats complained
They tried to remove me
With bottles they rained
But for the first time in history
I didn’t run and hide
And the Scousers in shellsuits
Had Goths on their side

Now this Land Of My Fathers
It don’t suit my needs
I’d rather be some place
Like Bradford or Leeds
Where the Gipton teenagers
Could meet in my shed
For advice on mascara
And all things undead

Now my left index finger
Is nine inches long
It’s hovering over
A world that’s gone wrong
Ask me to Prestatyn
And that’s what I’ll do
And we’ll all die together
And Dylan can’t sue

naim_nymph posted:

What has been proven by the referendum result on 23rd June 2016 is that the will of the UK people is to remain in the EU. The 17.4 million leave vote isn't anywhere near enough to commit to leaving the EU. On the same day 29 million electorate didn't vote to leave the EU, and that's not including the 16 & 17 year olds who were deliberately & inappropriately denied the vote because the Tory/UKIP party know most would vote to remain, and then there's the estimated 4 million UK people who are not on the electoral register, mostly due to Tory austerity measures that create homelessness, rough sleeping, sofa-surfers, inadequate sheltered accommodation, no fixed abode, they can't get registered to vote - the Tory/UKIP government don't give a damn about them because they know most are young and would vote to remain in the EU. Basically the referendum election was too heavily flawed and rigged in favour of leaving the EU. The result should be null and voided, especially as other concerns have been confirmed such as the weekly £360 million to the NHS Whopper.

People in the UK have been really conned by the fascicle Tory contrived cock-up referendum, it maybe a lot of things, expression of many Britons hatred of Johny Foreigner, Racism, Fascism, Popularism, a good deal for tax-haven millionaires... but whatever it is, democracy is ain't. 

Teresa May is a disgusting turncoat, she voted remain but when offered a Prime Minister job opportunity she jumped at the chance for her own selfish career prospects and damn the EU and remain voter, you can never ever trust anyone like that. On the day she said Brexit Means Brexit she knew how populist and contentious the whole stinky issue is, and Brexit Means Fascism would be too close to the truth, so the new Tory Brexit Party führer said 'Brexit Means Brexit" which has served really well for the gullible.

Debs

Debs - as you probably know from my posts, I'm a Remainer, but I can't agree with your argument that the referendum and result was a con by the Conservative Party. For sure there are some rabid Europhobes among the Tories but they are in the minority.  Cameron and Osborne activity campaigned to stay in and I believe they were genuine in pursuit of this. Yes, it's arguable their campaign was weak, and it has become clear since that their preparations for a result saying 'No' were woeful, or more accurately, non-existent.  Both Cameron and Osborne paid for this with their jobs, perhaps their political careers (though I suspect Osborne will be back one day).  

As for TM, there was a vacuum to be filled and she stepped forward.  Okay, there was probably some ambition fulfilment in that judgement but, again, I think she did what she thought was the right thing to do.  Would things have been better under BJ or Gove? I very much doubt it.    

Was the result of the referendum the wrong answer? In my view, yes. Was it a stitch-up by the Conservative Party? No.

Mike

Hmack posted:

Resurrection posted:

Looks like Putin is using the UK as his preferred playground for settling scores with those who fell out with him in Russia. I also see Nikolai Grushkov, another Putin enemy, has been found strangled in New Malden. which he was unlikely to have done by himself. Commie Corbyn also seems to have been falling over himself to avoid any words of recrimination for Putin further nailing the traitor's colours of allegiance to anywhere but the UK. The man is an utter disgrace. 

As our politicians have allowed the country to be the "dustbin for a significant proportion of the detritus of the world", we can hardly be surprised when vendettas are settled in our very open and over-tolerant society. 

Unless these are also lines from a Dylan song, then you have personally gone too far and are an utter disgrace. I don't swear, but was tempted to include a swear word here.

The second sentence I have highlighted in your post is on the fringe of being blatantly and openly racist.  

 

I think you are too wrapped up in your own biased opinions to allow one from anyone other than those that match your own. Your rabid rant matches the intolerance that Corbyn, McDonnell and of course Putin represent. It is also wrapped up in faux morality that people like you and them use to close down free speech and thought. 

Of course there always has been and always will be a bit of the auld argey bargey in politics but Brexit means Facism......are you  serious?

Resurrection posted:

Hmack posted:

Resurrection posted:

Looks like Putin is using the UK as his preferred playground for settling scores with those who fell out with him in Russia. I also see Nikolai Grushkov, another Putin enemy, has been found strangled in New Malden. which he was unlikely to have done by himself. Commie Corbyn also seems to have been falling over himself to avoid any words of recrimination for Putin further nailing the traitor's colours of allegiance to anywhere but the UK. The man is an utter disgrace. 

As our politicians have allowed the country to be the "dustbin for a significant proportion of the detritus of the world", we can hardly be surprised when vendettas are settled in our very open and over-tolerant society. 

Unless these are also lines from a Dylan song, then you have personally gone too far and are an utter disgrace. I don't swear, but was tempted to include a swear word here.

The second sentence I have highlighted in your post is on the fringe of being blatantly and openly racist.  

 

I think you are too wrapped up in your own biased opinions to allow one from anyone other than those that match your own. Your rabid rant matches the intolerance that Corbyn, McDonnell and of course Putin represent. It is also wrapped up in faux morality that people like you and them use to close down free speech and thought. 

Your post speaks for itself, and how ironically it does just that.

I detest intolerance which is precisely why I responded to your own post which was itself the epitome of intolerance, and which I suspect was designed to provoke in exactly this way. This is why I also detest those on the lunatic or racist fringe (granted a small number of those who voted to leave) on the Brexit side.

You appear to think that I am a lifelong supporter of Corbyn and McDonnel, and that your attempt to equate them with Putin and intolerance as will provoke me further. I am happy to share my political leanings on this forum and have done so in the past. As it happens, my political affiliations for most of my life have been with the Liberal or Social Democratic parties rather than with the left wing of the Labour party as you appear to assume. Unfortunately my party or parties of choice have been relegated to the fringe of British politics, and so I now largely vote tactically. That means for me, voting for any of the mainstream parties other than the Conservative party, and that includes potentially voting for Corbyn and the the Labour party.

I hope the one thing on which we might agree is that the UK must act with its allies to ensure that Putin cannot get away with what appears to be a blatant attempt to silence his critics wherever they might reside.   

 

Unless these are also lines from a Dylan song, then you have personally gone too far and are an utter disgrace. I don't swear, but was tempted to include a swear word here.

The second sentence I have highlighted in your post is on the fringe of being blatantly and openly racist.  

 

I think you are too wrapped up in your own biased opinions to allow one from anyone other than those that match your own. Your rabid rant matches the intolerance that Corbyn, McDonnell and of course Putin represent. It is also wrapped up in faux morality that people like you and them use to close down free speech and thought. 

Your post speaks for itself, and how ironically it does just that.

I detest intolerance which is precisely why I responded to your own post which was itself the epitome of intolerance, and which I suspect was designed to provoke in exactly this way. This is why I also detest those on the lunatic or racist fringe (granted a small number of those who voted to leave) on the Brexit side.

You appear to think that I am a lifelong supporter of Corbyn and McDonnel, and that your attempt to equate them with Putin and intolerance as will provoke me further. I am happy to share my political leanings on this forum and have done so in the past. As it happens, my political affiliations for most of my life have been with the Liberal or Social Democratic parties rather than with the left wing of the Labour party as you appear to assume. Unfortunately my party or parties of choice have been relegated to the fringe of British politics, and so I now largely vote tactically. That means for me, voting for any of the mainstream parties other than the Conservative party, and that includes potentially voting for Corbyn and the the Labour party.

I hope the one thing on which we might agree is that the UK must act with its allies to ensure that Putin cannot get away with what appears to be a blatant attempt to silence his critics wherever they might reside.   

  

Thanks, I am pleased you clarified that. You align yourself with a Party, Liberal, whose leader has just racially insulted any older, white person who had the temerity to vote to Leave the EU i.e. Vince Cable. Your own paranoia of the Conservative Party means that you would also happily cast your vote for, IMHO, probably two of the nastiest extremists, Corbyn and McDonnell, to infest Parliament since Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, who at least never took their seats. 

My gob is smacked at the suicidal, for the country, unpatriotic logic that would drive yourself to the conclusions and actions you have outlined above. 

But, of course, I agree with you that  something needs to be done about Putin. Apart from him settling old scores with nasty poisons and stranglings in this country, he and his mates are laundering billions here.

MDS posted:

naim_nymph posted:

What has been proven by the referendum result on 23rd June 2016 is that the will of the UK people is to remain in the EU. The 17.4 million leave vote isn't anywhere near enough to commit to leaving the EU. On the same day 29 million electorate didn't vote to leave the EU, and that's not including the 16 & 17 year olds who were deliberately & inappropriately denied the vote because the Tory/UKIP party know most would vote to remain, and then there's the estimated 4 million UK people who are not on the electoral register, mostly due to Tory austerity measures that create homelessness, rough sleeping, sofa-surfers, inadequate sheltered accommodation, no fixed abode, they can't get registered to vote - the Tory/UKIP government don't give a damn about them because they know most are young and would vote to remain in the EU. Basically the referendum election was too heavily flawed and rigged in favour of leaving the EU. The result should be null and voided, especially as other concerns have been confirmed such as the weekly £360 million to the NHS Whopper.

People in the UK have been really conned by the fascicle Tory contrived cock-up referendum, it maybe a lot of things, expression of many Britons hatred of Johny Foreigner, Racism, Fascism, Popularism, a good deal for tax-haven millionaires... but whatever it is, democracy is ain't. 

Teresa May is a disgusting turncoat, she voted remain but when offered a Prime Minister job opportunity she jumped at the chance for her own selfish career prospects and damn the EU and remain voter, you can never ever trust anyone like that. On the day she said Brexit Means Brexit she knew how populist and contentious the whole stinky issue is, and Brexit Means Fascism would be too close to the truth, so the new Tory Brexit Party führer said 'Brexit Means Brexit" which has served really well for the gullible.

Debs

Debs - as you probably know from my posts, I'm a Remainer, but I can't agree with your argument that the referendum and result was a con by the Conservative Party. For sure there are some rabid Europhobes among the Tories but they are in the minority.  Cameron and Osborne activity campaigned to stay in and I believe they were genuine in pursuit of this. Yes, it's arguable their campaign was weak, and it has become clear since that their preparations for a result saying 'No' were woeful, or more accurately, non-existent.  Both Cameron and Osborne paid for this with their jobs, perhaps their political careers (though I suspect Osborne will be back one day).  

As for TM, there was a vacuum to be filled and she stepped forward.  Okay, there was probably some ambition fulfilment in that judgement but, again, I think she did what she thought was the right thing to do.  Would things have been better under BJ or Gove? I very much doubt it.    

Was the result of the referendum the wrong answer? In my view, yes. Was it a stitch-up by the Conservative Party? No.

Mike

Mike - I agree.  Similarly I am a vehement remainer but I think the biggest mistake (or one of them) is to label those who genuinely see the UK’s position as better served outside of the EU as being racist, fascist or at least being conned by the Right.  It’s highly insulting. And after all for the vast majority of his career indeed until 2015 Jeremy Corbyn himself was amongst the firmest of the leavers.  

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

MDS posted:

 

Mike - I agree.  Similarly I am a vehement remainer but I think the biggest mistake (or one of them) is to label those who genuinely see the UK’s position as better served outside of the EU as being racist, fascist or at least being conned by the Right.  It’s highly insulting. And after all for the vast majority of his career indeed until 2015 Jeremy Corbyn himself was amongst the firmest of the leavers.  

Lindsay

Yes. Good points, Lindsay. I find Corbyn's long-term anti-EU position hard to square with his more recent assertions about retaining protections for workers' rights. Surely that is harder to achieve by leaving when the UK is on its own rather than being part of a huge economic block.

Mike