New NAP 300DR Underwhelmed

Did you dealer set up the 300 for you? Is it on proper shelves, with correct cable dressing, leads hanging free etc? Is it properly warmed up? If the answer to those questions is yes, and it's being outclassed by a 250, something is wrong. I'd give your dealer a call if nothing changes in the next day or two.

Ever thought of going active getting a snaxo and another CB 250 might give you more of what you love and for probably less money. 

Thanks for the replies.

Chrissu, The 300 is installed in two separate stands. Cables dressed as best as possible. It’s not outclassed by the CB250 it’s just not that better Power wise. I was expecting some real slam from the 300. Especially as it’s a DR.

Bob you make a good point. I had considered that move but wanted the DR type sound.

cheers both.

perhaps the 52 supercap with nap 300dr is not a magical pairing ?

This amp needs more than a day to run-in.... 

Typical break-in process: 

good – bad – awful – good – great – abysmal – good – better – excellent

Rooster, you may we’ll be on point but it doesn’t sound bad, just not a big enough improvement. I could quite happily live with it if I didn’t have the 250. But there is not nearly£8k worth of improvement.

MCJT, agreed, but I’ve always been of the opinion that an upgrade should be instant out of the box. And that it will just get better and better with time.

cheers guys.

ChrisSU posted:

Did you dealer set up the 300 for you? Is it on proper shelves, with correct cable dressing, leads hanging free etc? Is it properly warmed up? If the answer to those questions is yes, and it's being outclassed by a 250, something is wrong. I'd give your dealer a call if nothing changes in the next day or two.

I must agree with the above, whilst I've never had a CB 250 I did use an Olive 250 for over twenty years and more recently a 250dr switching to a 300dr just over a year go. In my opinion the 300dr is a rather special amplifier not that much more powerful than the 250 but has far better grip and control much better altogether.

They do need to be set up correctly to get the best out of them and if it is brand new will take a while to burn in a week is simply not long enough, mine was installed brand new and never really come on song or several weeks.

Chris LOL. But that said when my 52 Supercap replaced my 72 hicap I thought wowser, love this new sound straight out of the box.

PCD, thanks. You’d think Naim would burn them in if they take that long.

cheers

Naim Guy posted:

PCD, thanks. You’d think Naim would burn them in if they take that long.

cheers

I'd hate to think what the extra cost of an amp would be, for Naim to have a room full of them, all running for days after they've been built. I think they soak test everything for a day or two, but I guess that's not quite what you mean. 

Naim Guy posted:

PCD, thanks. You’d think Naim would burn them in if they take that long.

cheers

Naim do the first part - the soak test is a sort of accelerated burn-in process and gets things going. All you have to do is finish it off.  

Naim Guy posted:

MCJT, agreed, but I’ve always been of the opinion that an upgrade should be instant out of the box. And that it will just get better and better with time.

I appreciate your opinion and enthusiasm, but sometimes gear doesn't sound that great out of the box. Speakers are a great example, as their sound is derived from actual moving parts and diaphragms. A brand new (and superior!) speaker can sound much worse out of the box than a similar but run-in predecessor. 

Your opinion may be correct for many things, but may be off the mark in this example. 

Did your dealer provide you with a NAP300DR demo at home? I have a 250-2 and have heard the 250DR and 300DR on plenty of occasions. 300 is a pretty awesome amp! 

CB250 to NAP300DR is a pretty huge change. You may be more accustomed to the old Naim sound than you thought!

Chris Bell posted:

Typical break-in process: 

good – bad – awful – good – great – abysmal – good – better – excellent

If it is new then run it in for at least two weeks to get it to sing. My new NAP500 was awful at first and took 3 weeks of pain to flip to magic - then again when I DR updated - that took about 2 weeks.

There is an opinion that from cold it will be fine and they are not - they are 'ok' from cold but really don't do what they should and ultimately will until after ten days or so minimum from my experience.

The old 300 was rather dull to begin with then gradually got better and better. The new DR one I've no personal experience with, but the DR 500 was painful for the first week.

Stay with it and report how it settles down over a few days.

DB.

Many thanks for all your replies. Most helpful.

cheers

Godfrey

Mine was ok brand new. It’s not all about power, it’s more about control.

Did you not home demo (or even demo at all)  before buying?

I cannot speak for the NAP300, but I find just normal warm up time (once the amp is well burnt in) with Naim power amps to be a few days. I turned my kit off to change it around on the shelves, so it was off for several hours, but I don't think it was sounding right for three days or so. From new it can take weeks. 

And you shouldn’t have to have it set up in a certain way for it to sound good. A Burndy touching the floor, Fraim glass the wrong way up or a cable touching another won’t make this amp sound bad.

I never found that. I had a non-300 DR switched to a brand new 300DR and could immediately detect an improvement. Does seem rather strange to spend 20K on a 500DR for it to sound awful. I wonder if other manufacturers have such temperamental kit? Sorry to go against the flow but I wonder how much of this is real vs. Just getting used to a change. There, I’ve done it now

Drewey, no haven’t had a home dem. I have it for a week withe option of returning. That seemed an amicable arrangement to me. Like I said above, it’s not that it’s bad, in fact far from it. It sounds great. I was just expecting more oomph.

cheers everyone. Great forum so far. Thank you.

Godfrey

I try not to listen too much to my 300 for a couple of weeks after a power cycle (too dull, too sharp etc.). Once I'm a month in, it really sings and I re-appreciate why I spent so much on it (everything sounds 'natural' - almost bordering on being at a live performance). I'd give the 300 DR as long as you can before reaching a conclusion although (having upgraded from a 250) it does have a more neutral stance to its sound (more bass depth which may be construed as less bass slam but which is really more 'natural'. Similarly the treble is less emphasised and more integrated). My opinion, of course...

perhaps the linn isobaric, which i don’t know, is easy to drive. So nap 250 vs 300dr will not give a big improvement. Just hypothesis.

Naim Guy posted:

I have a week to change my mind. Am I missing something here chaps.

 

Possibly - 6 days.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...e-out-ok---powerline 

Connect the 300DR to a wall outlet.

BP.

FWIW many years back I auditioned a 300 non-DR versus Olive 250 (using NAP52 & NACA5) and wasn't overly impressed with the 300 e.g. wasn't night & day which, at the time, I was expecting given 300 replaced 2x 135 in the power amp range.

There was certainly more detail with the 300 and it was smoother up the volume scale compared to the 250 but as the OP reports, and as some have got confused with the qualities of the 500 in the same way, the 300 didn't present as a more powerful current pumping amp. The fundamental aspect was the change in presentation & detailing at normal listening levels and the ability to retain control as the volume is raised - which is where my 250 struggled. 

To my ears, it seemed the drama* & excitement of the 250 had been removed - * defined as a richer musical picture with a mid-band emphasis with the 250. I went the 2 x S/H 135 route and that was a meaningful change/upgrade to my ears. I just found the relative presentation of the 300 as being 'too polite'.

One thing I know now, which I didn't know then, is that cabling and burndy management is vital for the 300/500 i.e. all cables must swing freely. 

Godfrey - respecting things are still warming up, it could be your ears are evaluating things similarly?