New NAP 300DR Underwhelmed

Just curious. How exactly was it factory tuned? Just crious to know if they got there before Devilalet did

Yes, I recall that - but no idea what it means! If passive isobarics what needed “tuning”, and if active, gain as well as filtering is usually done in the active XO

I may depend on the sound that you like. NAP 300 being more expensive does not necessarily translate to being 'better'. You ears are perhaps 'acclimatised' to the sound of the 250: it's the sound floats your boat. In time you may find a new appreciation for the 300. I've been through many upgrades and I know the feeling. CDX to CDS2 seemed to me like a step in the wrong direction, but in time I began to appreciate the nuances of a superior source. All good things come to those who wait. Metrics and numbers do not always add up to become the sum of their parts. Try to let go of all you know. Take a leap of faith. Perhaps the sound will 'grow' on you.

When I first got my poor mans 300 (non DR) I listened to all the things I read on this forum regarding set up and paid close attention.  A couple of weeks ago I dismantled my rack to put longer spacers on the shelf seperating the two halves of the 300 and then literally threw it back together as I was going to the football thinking I will redo it later on and guess what it sounds no different, wires are crossing, burndies are touching the wall, glass isolation shelves and cups and balls are probably all the wrong way and it still sounds great.

I think after dropping around 7K on a power amp that Naim Guy is entitled to hear a bit of wow straight out of the box and in my experience when things sound better slowly and over a long period it is very difficult to judge unless of course you have a brand new un burned in one to compare.

I found my 300 a great improvement over the 250-2 also non DR but again I'm afraid my cloth ears fail me and the benefits of set up minutiae have passed me by.  

And again Naim Guy if you continue to be underwhelmed I would love to hear what this system would sound like.

LP12 >> 52/Supercap >> 3 x CB 250 (or 2 x ) >> Snaxo/Supercap >> Isobarik

I think you might just get a bit of the slam your after.

Maybe you’re missing the thwack and drama of the old regulator in the 250. 

DR is different. Only you can decide if it’s an improvement or not

there is nothing lacking in the new DR regulator... to my ears anyway.

I suspect like all wires, the burndy needs to run in for at least 200 hours.

Dear OP.

Take the time for your 300DR to fully brake in. Let's say 2-3 months. Then switch back to your 250. You'll have the surprise of your life. When I switched from my SU to 272&250DR didn't notice that much of a difference until 3 months later when I tried my SU for one last time before selling it. I first though the SU somehow got broken. Yes, that much of a difference.

Well I’ve never heard a 300 sounding anything but superb.  Unless it really doesn’t match with the Isobariks I’m perplexed.  

Godfrey - Although the 300 is the 'better' amp, maybe your CB250 just suits your ears, system and room. I'd give the 300 a few more days and if it still doesn't work for you then at least you've given it a go and found what you prefer. Nothing wrong with that. 

I'd concur with the comments about careful cable dressing on the 300, particularly with regard to the Burndy cables hanging free. It made a surprising difference with my old 300 - the amp would sound 'off' when these weren't right. 

James

Dan.S posted:

Dear OP.

Take the time for your 300DR to fully brake in. Let's say 2-3 months. Then switch back to your 250. You'll have the surprise of your life. When I switched from my SU to 272&250DR didn't notice that much of a difference until 3 months later when I tried my SU for one last time before selling it. I first though the SU somehow got broken. Yes, that much of a difference.

Dan - seems the OP has only a 1 week dem period - which given it's a new unit is short IMV, added to which is the need to get one's head around the differences in presentation as against his CB250 - the latter also being a mighty fine bit of kit. 

it is nice to know the CB250 is still a mighty amplifier in 2018 

I have never owned a 250CB but listened to one many times  in the 80's with 32.5/hicap . I have never been able to recreate that sense of power even with a new 250. However, would I give up the detail and control of a 300DR for a 250, No.

If i could pick up a 32.5/hicap/250 cheaply i would have it as a second system . Something to be said for the old CB stuff, I owned 42.5/hicap/110 for 19 years

james n posted:

Godfrey - Although the 300 is the 'better' amp, maybe your CB250 just suits your ears, system and room. I'd give the 300 a few more days and if it still doesn't work for you then at least you've given it a go and found what you prefer. Nothing wrong with that. 

I'd concur with the comments about careful cable dressing on the 300, particularly with regard to the Burndy cables hanging free. It made a surprising difference with my old 300 - the amp would sound 'off' when these weren't right. 

James

But given the difference in gain, if that was the case, between 250 and 300 I do think the OP should consult at least the dealer, and seek verification that there is not a fault with the 300, maybe hearing against a second one. (Is that the dealer’s demo model, or a new one?)

What difference in gain ?

Why should there be a fault with the 300? It's just a different beast to the 250 which the OP is tuned to

Hold - on so is this a brand new 300dr - this will take around 2 -3 weeks to come on song!!! ...... I am not surprised you are under whelmed!!! My experience is Naim amps do not sound good when fresh out of the box - my 250dr sounded best described as a bit sluggish almost phasey - my 500dr - was similar but not quite as bad ......... both took around 2 weeks - playing all the time to start to show - the pedigree .... the 250dr took about a month in total .... the 500dr took around 2 months ......... 

Your dealer should have explained this........... also the 300dr is about should have considerable finesse compared to 250CB - the sound stage should be excellent, depth, pace - generally a huge upgrade over the CB. Also you need to be very careful over sighting psu - don't sit amp directly on psu.

Finally - I have heard CB years ago - they are upfront pacy and quite exciting - in a slightly uncouth way and are great with vinyl (in my view) The 300dr is fundamentally more sophisticated and should have a punchier slightly more laid back presentation - that has wonderful voicing. They need careful running in and siting. 

I really hope -  things work out for you - keep us in the loop.

I heard a 300dr at the Bristol Hi Fi show last year driven by a Dave and with Concept 500 speakers - it was not good - the amp was poorly sited (stacked) and it was given to Chord the day before the event - I suspect fresh out of the box - so you have to be careful run the 300dr for at least 2 weeks before being critical - a good dealer should understand that....don't worry be patient...talk to the dealer.

Couldn’t have been anything as simple as a difference in the position of the volume control on the amps I suppose.

If it isn't better for you then it simply isn't. People saying wait, try, this and that, it is like just try harder to hear it is better.

james n posted:

What difference in gain ?

See my post 16th above yours, responding to the OP’s update about sound levels

Iron Cobra posted:

Why should there be a fault with the 300? It's just a different beast to the 250 which the OP is tuned to

Ditto,

sjbabbey posted:

Couldn’t have been anything as simple as a difference in the position of the volume control on the amps I suppose.

My response had wondered that, but OP hasn’t responded yet.

Hi IB, not sure whether you already mentioned this but I think that I’ve read that the 300DR has a lower noise floor which might partially account for it seeming (or measuring) quieter.

analogmusic posted:

there is nothing lacking in the new DR regulator... to my ears anyway.

I suspect like all wires, the burndy needs to run in for at least 200 hours.

TWO HUNDRED HOURS??????

If you don't hear it straight away - you never will, your just justifying a box.

sjbabbey posted:

Hi IB, not sure whether you already mentioned this but I think that I’ve read that the 300DR has a lower noise floor which might partially account for it seeming (or measuring) quieter.

The OP's friend measured the actual sound level as 3.5 dB louder while playing which is why I focussed on gain.

However, I don’t know if his final comment in that post about increasing the volume control setting with the 300 (if my understanding of his meaning is correct) meant it was all then hunky dory and he’s happy with it - suggesting gain was the only issue and he hadn’t compensated by simply turning it up. If that is the case then it does suggest no fault and no problem, despite the oddity of apparently different amplifier gains when they’re supposed to be the same (assuming the CB spec was same as current 250

i think the OP needs to feed back before anything meaningful can be deduced or offered.

I had my beloved 300 serviced and DR’d last year. On its return somethings were obviously better but “underwhelmed” does describe my overall feeling: the great allround ability and coherence was missing. This feeling persisted for around 14 days and from there on it was (and is!) wonderful. It continued to improve for another couple of months. Be patient!

Chris

Good evening everyone. thank you all so much for your helpful replies. Forgive me not replying sooner but i wanted to listen as much as possible and avoid posting to give the 300 as much time as possible.

I must start my update by explainng that I haven't said that the 300 is a bad amp, ony that i had expected it to have more oompth. It is a very great amp indeed (and I’ll describe its attributes in a second.) My disapointment was that out of the box I had expected it to jump into action.

The 300 has been powered on now for 4 days and each day it becomes more and more fluid. 

We did some interesting tests this afternoon in a more controlled way. testing peak and average dB levels between the CB250 and the 300 using a 1kz test tone, and a complete track of the same music  with the volume pot at the same level remaining untouched in the tests. On a 1kz tone over a full minute the 250 averaged 1.5 db more volume than the 300 and on the test track on the streamer, we used Keith do’nt go by Nils Lofgren which is an excellent recording and has good dynamics. this had some interesting results as the average for both tracks was

250: 84db

300: 81.5 dB.

We repeated the test 3 times with the same results. in other words the 250 was louder. we quickly adjusted the streamer volume by 3db for the 300 and played a few tracks on the 250 and then the 300. The increase of volume makes a huge difference to the listening comparison and whilst having a comletely different musical presentation the 300 was punching away. Now i have no explaination for the difference in volume but it makes a marked difference. Now when I listen to tracks that i haven played for a while with the Volme pot adjusted, the 300 really shows what it can do.

So I’ll try to sum up its strengths. The 300 DR has a much sweeter natural tone and sound stage. it reveals the music in much more detail and delineation, yet allows all these individual parts to contribute and biulld to the overall song. It also can play loud and i mean loud and never loses control at shatterig levels. the 250 runs out of power long before the 300.

The CB250 is more basic, its strengths lie in the “Boogie” factor and though it does not seperate all that is going on ito real individual strands like the 300. its tone is starker and not as sweet or natural. yet it remains a superbly musical amplifier and has a lovely dynamic and musically engaging sound.

There is no doubt the 300 is definitly improving. I have till Monday to make up my mind so i will be listening intently over the few days.

Regards

Godfrey