Naim Supernait (1)/HiCap2->Linn Majik 140

Posted by: Vicca on 03 March 2018

Dear users,

What a great website for Naim users. Proud to be here for more than 7 years now.  I'm not an avid follower but every time I click to get myself to this forum feels fine after. Anyway, I wanted to ask you fellows something about that system above that I'm using for quite some time,  more precisely about 2-3 years now (while previously had have Nait 5i, XS, CD5i, than XS2 and one of my favourites NAC122/150, all of them with a variety of speakers,  the best of them Harbeth SHL5, not to mention the lesser ones). To add to the head of message above, my source is linear PSU powered microRendu/Roon mode through Holo Spring DAC level 1. Sometimes is 2Qute instead but I find Holo DAC a bit more organic. Cabling is various before the DAC and after that is either Chord/FB or Naim (NACA5).

Namely, I'm OK with the sound, this particular combo sounds fine and very musical. I even upgraded Linn speakers with stand upgrade which was not exactly cheap. However, it seems that system might gain in the area of transparence and get a bit more open; I have a feeling that speakers might represent the weak point of the system. My room is large and asymmetric (about 50m2) Linns are placed 2,7 m away from each other, slightly toed in (5-10 degree) and 60 cm off the back walls.  The sound has nice flowing musical character with deep bass impact which is well defined and wonderful albeit not with utmost transparent vocal bands (both female and male); It's well extended and not rolled-off in highs but still lacks something in upper mid-band and treble energy. The music genres that I'm listening vary from contemporary jazz, vocal jazz, R'n'R, indie, funk and some pop-music.

My favourite speakers that I've been thinking about (and nearly all of them listened on variety of hi-fi events are): 

- ProAC (wonderful speakers. I would prefer D28 for example, maybe further in a line, but not necessarily to avoid even Studio range. However, I would like to stay away from their ribbon treble because of a limited/narrow vertical spread, I like quite a wide sweet "spot".

- PMC (from Twenty.24 onwards, not so long back listened to 26s with Arcam - very nice ones but probably sub-optimal amplifier match here in Stockholm). I have considered previous  S/H line models like FB1 or OB1, but I think they are lacking musicality which is captivating in newer lines not to mention they are quite a bit hard to drive. Potential obstacle with PMC is listening at low levels. I need a speaker which would sound good at low volume levels.

- ATC SCM40 newer line model or the older one. Personally I don't like the looks of newer ones with that awful metallic grill. But it seems they sound better than previous ones.

- Usher mini dancer 2 (!) Strong contenders, fell off the chair ones when I heard them although with Cayenne amplification and not with Naim (is there any point here in trying them with Naim at all?).    

The objectives are strong and well defined bass with very open vocals and sweet but not rolled-off heights. Floorstanding models with no add of any subwoofer. Is there any room for improvement for me with budget of about 2 - 2,5 grands that may be reasonable to suggest?

Thanks in advance

Viktor

 

Posted on: 03 March 2018 by wenger2015

Their is no doubt you can improve on the Linn majik 140.

It would be interesting to know firstly which speaker cables and interconnects you use?

Posted on: 03 March 2018 by Vicca

AR Sound Green link (RCA->DIN), alternatively The Chord Cadenza RCA and Flashback RCA->DIN cables. Speaker cables are NACA5 2x 5,7m. Room filling with these speakers is very satisfactory, but I know there are better options now, confined to the above mentioned price range. 

Posted on: 03 March 2018 by wenger2015

The SN1 with HCdr is a superb combination, you could with your budget upgrade your speaker cables and interconnects. Which in my view is equally as important as all the other components in your system.

The problem with suggesting speakers is you need to like the sound and the look, and they have to work well in your room. 

So a home dem is essential.

And that really means a trip to your nearest dealer and discuss the options available including trade in value, which might well increase your budget. 

Narrow it down to 2 or 3 options and see what works best.

Posted on: 03 March 2018 by av in bc

i ask for advice much more than i give it here but i could recommend adding a Powerline to your 1.
nice upgrade, rounds out the amp with more dynamics, separation and a few more things depending on your source and music.

as for speakers i run Totem Forests and they are amazing with SN1 and don't cost much used, best upgrade i ever made,
but i pretty much always buy Totems so there's that. 
they fill my relatively large room and are great with TV and movies as well.

Posted on: 03 March 2018 by joerand

Hi Vicca,

I had the 140s with plinth upgrade home for several days with my SN2/HCDR/NACA5. The 140s are musical and engaging, but in the long-term not overly exciting with regard to hi-fi. While pleasant and polite enough they are laid-back for attack. Percussive transients are softer than I like. I also noticed a mid bass hump that over-emphasized the kick drum in rock listening. While the 140s are something I could listen to all day for background music, they were not attention grabbers in my room and I expect more excitement/involvement for dedicated listening. Despite the upgraded plinths, the 140s, for a floor stander, don't do deep bass.

Posted on: 04 March 2018 by Japtimscarlet

I managed..some time ago..to convince myself that linn 140's were exactly what I needed

I hassled my dealer ( linn stockist ) to hurry up and get some in.. and he did

I then put aside an afternoon to listen to them.. after he had run them in...they were not nice!!

Muddy over blown bass and lack of clarity

I then persuaded him to cut the links on the crossover to reduce the bass ..it wasn't hard to do ...he didn't like them either!!

Anyways to cut a long story short..they were improved with the bass cut ...but still were not clear or transparent..but at least the bass was now bearable 

I didn't buy them of course

Posted on: 04 March 2018 by Vicca
wenger2015 posted:

Narrow it down to 2 or 3 options and see what works best.

That's absolutely mandatory, no questions about it.

av in bc posted:

... as for speakers i run Totem Forests and they are amazing with SN1 and don't cost much used, best upgrade i ever made,
but i pretty much always buy Totems so there's that. 
they fill my relatively large room and are great with TV and movies as well.

I know about Totem but unfortunately, I heard them only couple of weeks ago at the show here in Stockholm. Driven by Prima Luna amp it was one of smaller bookshelf models in one enormously large room. It was not exactly an astonishing experience but it's really tremendous that such a small speaker can sound like this. Here I have a problem with demoing them but definitely one to think about it. There was a lot about Mani 2 model on the forum couple of years ago, I was very interested back then... However, now Forest Signatures seem to be out of my budget...

 

Posted on: 08 March 2018 by Vicca

Thanks for the answers.

I went to my friend who has Totem Sky speakers (standmounts but quite large ones) and have been more than surprised how do they sound. They are fantastic in his room (which is by some margin smaller than mine) at the end of Exposure 3010s2 amp. Now, I wonder if any Totem Sky owner is out there to write a bit about their sound characteristics in Naim setups? As a result of this particular topic I included Totem (prefferably Forest or previous Mani 2) as ones to be in narrow choice to buy, competeng only with ProAcs. 

Posted on: 12 March 2018 by Vicca
Japtimscarlet posted:

I managed..some time ago..to convince myself that linn 140's were exactly what I needed

I hassled my dealer ( linn stockist ) to hurry up and get some in.. and he did

I then put aside an afternoon to listen to them.. after he had run them in...they were not nice!!

Muddy over blown bass and lack of clarity

I then persuaded him to cut the links on the crossover to reduce the bass ..it wasn't hard to do ...he didn't like them either!!

Anyways to cut a long story short..they were improved with the bass cut ...but still were not clear or transparent..but at least the bass was now bearable 

I didn't buy them of course

Nicely described. What did you end up with instead?

 

Posted on: 12 March 2018 by Japtimscarlet

I opted in the end for Russell K red 100's ( so not a floor stander at all ) on Linn stands ( as Russell had not got his own stand at the time) so slightly higher budget.

I still have these ( piano black ) marvels and am very happy with them 

 

Posted on: 12 March 2018 by Vicca

Unfortunately these are too small for my place, as described above. Otherwise nicely done, astonishing speakers to listen to with gusto, have listened to them at one occasion here in Sweden during hi-fi show. If it was only for bookshelves (a smaller listening space) I would end up buying Harbeths (like 7ES) or ProAc Response 2's and enjoy. Shooting at floorstanders only means limitations in precision and timing, at least to myself.

Posted on: 12 March 2018 by Vicca

Although it's still questionable if larger bookshelves like Like Totem Mani 2 or Harbeth SHL5 (especially Totems) would have enough grunt for my oversized room. I used to own SHL5 2 years ago (they were in the other apartment with smaller listening room) and they sounded just right at the end of NAC122/NAP150X/HCap. But remembering and knowing them just seems kind of unlikely to perform their job well in my actual living room.