Nac 282 with 250dr or 300dr???

analogmusic posted:

252 losing some of the magic

blimey that's a 10,000 GBP preamp with the Supercap.

I’m in the 282 camp. I would say that the 282 benefits from lots of space  around it and the Power Supplies. The 300DR PS needs plenty of space - I have over 15cm (6”) between boxes. 5cm (2”) is not enough IMHO. The cable dressing becomes harder with the 300DR, but must be got right to enjoy what it does. 

Phil

james n posted:

Yep - 10k is a lot of cash - some people just don't like the 252.

James and others, AM has a 282! 

Phil

He's a sensible chap. The 282 is a superb preamp. The 252 is also a superb preamp. They just sound a lot different to each other. If I was doing the Naim thing all over again, I'd have missed out the 252 and looked towards the 552 instead.

james n posted:

He's a sensible chap. The 282 is a superb preamp. The 252 is also a superb preamp. They just sound a lot different to each other. If I was doing the Naim thing all over again, I'd have missed out the 252 and looked towards the 552 instead.

Yes, James. And that's exactly what I did.  I'm not saying the 252 isn't a superb pre-amp but to my taste I preferred the exuberance of the 282/SCDR.

james n posted:

He's a sensible chap. The 282 is a superb preamp. The 252 is also a superb preamp. They just sound a lot different to each other. If I was doing the Naim thing all over again, I'd have missed out the 252 and looked towards the 552 instead.

I’ve owned both and didn’t detect a big difference.....

The 282 is like a 'resting' rubber band: ready to react and with reflexes to match. The 252 is like a 'stretched' rubber band: there's 'more' detail in between but possibly at the 'expense' of not being able to 'fully' energise the 'wider' spectrum.

Ravenswood10 posted:

james n posted:

He's a sensible chap. The 282 is a superb preamp. The 252 is also a superb preamp. They just sound a lot different to each other. If I was doing the Naim thing all over again, I'd have missed out the 252 and looked towards the 552 instead.

I’ve owned both and didn’t detect a big difference.....

So have I. I did.....

Different ears, systems, preferences.

Minh Nguyen posted:

The 282 is like a 'resting' rubber band: ready to react and with reflexes to match. The 252 is like a 'stretched' rubber band: there's 'more' detail in between but possibly at the 'expense' of not being able to 'energise' the wider spectrum.

Interesting analogy, Minh

MDS posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

The 282 is like a 'resting' rubber band: ready to react and with reflexes to match. The 252 is like a 'stretched' rubber band: there's 'more' detail in between but possibly at the 'expense' of not being able to 'energise' the wider spectrum.

Interesting analogy, Minh

Minh, That is a a good analogy. As a retired scientist by training I’d say that the 252 operates in the region where the band’s elastic modulus (force/extension) is linear. The slack of the 282 represents inelasticity which makes the leading edges of a note much sharper. Electric fields have similar characteristics to classical physical force fields.

Phil

Filipe posted:

MDS posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

The 282 is like a 'resting' rubber band: ready to react and with reflexes to match. The 252 is like a 'stretched' rubber band: there's 'more' detail in between but possibly at the 'expense' of not being able to 'energise' the wider spectrum.

Interesting analogy, Minh

Minh, That is a a good analogy. As a retired scientist by training I’d say that the 252 operates in the region where the band’s elastic modulus (force/extension) is linear. The slack of the 282 represents inelasticity which makes the leading edges of a note much sharper. Electric fields have similar characteristics to classical physical force fields.

Phil

Phil, I have limited knowledge of science compared to you but I very much appreciate your scientific explanation. In some ways we are both describing the same phenomenon but using a lexically different subset of words to offer a possible explanation. Minh

I can't understand these descriptions.

Blimey again.

what I do understand is that the Burndy preamps are quite fussy about their cables.

But somehow the 552 is less fussy than a 252. Maybe the floating chassis? or the split rail power supply that eliminates all noise in signal earth.

it's also about allocation of funds. Where should one spend the extra 4K GBP jumping from 282 to 252?

Source, speakers, Superlumina cables, FRAIM, power lines?

thats what makes Naim fun, so many choices.

analogmusic posted:

I can't understand these descriptions ... Blimey again ... what I do understand is that the Burndy preamps are quite fussy about their cables.

But somehow the 552 is less fussy than a 252 ... thats what makes Naim fun, so many choices.

The 252 could be described as a 'fussy' person with unrealistically 'high' expectations of themselves: the innate potential is inchoate which is plain to see when they imitate others considered of 'higher' regard. The 552 is less 'fussy' because it simply gives it the way it is: each and every ounce. Like it or love it.

282 - I know my place!

Minh Nguyen posted:

analogmusic posted:

I can't understand these descriptions ... Blimey again ... what I do understand is that the Burndy preamps are quite fussy about their cables.

But somehow the 552 is less fussy than a 252 ... thats what makes Naim fun, so many choices.

The 252 could be described as a 'fussy' person with unrealistically 'high' expectations of themselves: the innate potential is inchoate which is plain to see when they imitate others considered of 'higher' regard. The 552 is less 'fussy' because it simply gives it the way it is: each and every ounce. Like it or love it.

Thanks Minh. I’m getting a 552 to demo in a day or two. Given the 252 didn’t seem to settle in the 8 days I preserved, maybe the 552 will come on tune quickly. 

As I may continue the the 252 demo when the 552 goes back, it would be nice to know what to do with its Burndy. My Racks aren’t the best, but I feel the 282 is giving it’s all.

Phil

Minh, Like you I spent my career in IT: Telecoms, medical diagnostic imaging, computer security, and other things about which I cannot talk.

yet somehow whenever I listen extensively to a 552, I realised that source still comes first.

Filipe I looked at your profile and you are pretty maxed out at the sources, so maybe 552 is right for you now.

Filipe posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

analogmusic posted:

I can't understand these descriptions ... Blimey again ... what I do understand is that the Burndy preamps are quite fussy about their cables.

But somehow the 552 is less fussy than a 252 ... thats what makes Naim fun, so many choices.

The 252 could be described as a 'fussy' person with unrealistically 'high' expectations of themselves: the innate potential is inchoate which is plain to see when they imitate others considered of 'higher' regard. The 552 is less 'fussy' because it simply gives it the way it is: each and every ounce. Like it or love it.

Thanks Minh. I’m getting a 552 to demo in a day or two. Given the 252 didn’t seem to settle in the 8 days I preserved, maybe the 552 will come on tune quickly. 

As I may continue the the 252 demo when the 552 goes back, it would be nice to know what to do with its Burndy. My Racks aren’t the best, but I feel the 282 is giving it’s all.

Phil

Minh, Like you I spent my career in IT: Telecoms, medical diagnostic imaging, computer security, and other things about which I cannot talk.

 

...and just to think I could have stayed with the 282 and played with some rubber bands. I feel conned - shame on you Naim for putting out  substandard equipment - there wasn't even a rubber band included with mine nor a DSM manual for psychiatric disorders and the management thereof! 

Filipe posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

analogmusic posted:

I can't understand these descriptions ... Blimey again ... what I do understand is that the Burndy preamps are quite fussy about their cables.

But somehow the 552 is less fussy than a 252 ... thats what makes Naim fun, so many choices.

The 252 could be described as a 'fussy' person with unrealistically 'high' expectations of themselves: the innate potential is inchoate which is plain to see when they imitate others considered of 'higher' regard. The 552 is less 'fussy' because it simply gives it the way it is: each and every ounce. Like it or love it.

Thanks Minh. I’m getting a 552 to demo in a day or two. Given the 252 didn’t seem to settle in the 8 days I preserved, maybe the 552 will come on tune quickly. 

As I may continue the the 252 demo when the 552 goes back, it would be nice to know what to do with its Burndy. My Racks aren’t the best, but I feel the 282 is giving it’s all.

Phil

Minh, Like you I spent my career in IT: Telecoms, medical diagnostic imaging, computer security, and other things about which I cannot talk.

 

If that’s a well used 552 you’re demoing you’re in for a surprise and a lot of expense. 

And don’t worry about the cables. Just plug it all in and turn it on. 

Ravenswood10 posted:

Filipe posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

analogmusic posted:

I can't understand these descriptions ... Blimey again ... what I do understand is that the Burndy preamps are quite fussy about their cables.

But somehow the 552 is less fussy than a 252 ... thats what makes Naim fun, so many choices.

The 252 could be described as a 'fussy' person with unrealistically 'high' expectations of themselves: the innate potential is inchoate which is plain to see when they imitate others considered of 'higher' regard. The 552 is less 'fussy' because it simply gives it the way it is: each and every ounce. Like it or love it.

Thanks Minh. I’m getting a 552 to demo in a day or two. Given the 252 didn’t seem to settle in the 8 days I preserved, maybe the 552 will come on tune quickly. 

As I may continue the the 252 demo when the 552 goes back, it would be nice to know what to do with its Burndy. My Racks aren’t the best, but I feel the 282 is giving it’s all.

Phil

Minh, Like you I spent my career in IT: Telecoms, medical diagnostic imaging, computer security, and other things about which I cannot talk.

 

...and just to think I could have stayed with the 282 and played with some rubber bands. I feel conned - shame on you Naim for putting out  substandard equipment - there wasn't even a rubber band included with mine nor a DSM manual for psychiatric disorders and the management thereof! 

I don’t really understand your remarks, which seem strange. I seems to remember you stating recently you could not find much difference between your 282 and your replacement 252. Quite a few of us do. Minh provides an analogy which I liked. Many people (me, Minh and MDS included) find the 282 is more exciting. We are not knocking Naim or anyone else. 

Phil

I solved the 282-252 dichotomy by simply using them both, in two systems. They are indeed different and I like them both.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I solved the 282-252 dichotomy by simply using them both, in two systems. They are indeed different and I like them both.

I also like both preamps. Think the 252 is better but own the 282. Doesn't keep me awake at night. Don't understand what all the 282 vs 252 argument is about. 

the argument is about money (for me)

I think the argument comes about from the 252 sitting further up the preamp chain and thus seen as an automatic upgrade from a 282. Whilst it may be the 'better' preamp it does sound different to the 282 and so it may not be the upgrade first envisaged. Of course, system components, presentation preferences etc will drive the decision and as ever if you're thinking of going this route then an audition over a long period, in your own system is a must.

That's it (IMHO of course)

Drewy posted:

Filipe posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

analogmusic posted:

I can't understand these descriptions ... Blimey again ... what I do understand is that the Burndy preamps are quite fussy about their cables.

But somehow the 552 is less fussy than a 252 ... thats what makes Naim fun, so many choices.

The 252 could be described as a 'fussy' person with unrealistically 'high' expectations of themselves: the innate potential is inchoate which is plain to see when they imitate others considered of 'higher' regard. The 552 is less 'fussy' because it simply gives it the way it is: each and every ounce. Like it or love it.

Thanks Minh. I’m getting a 552 to demo in a day or two. Given the 252 didn’t seem to settle in the 8 days I preserved, maybe the 552 will come on tune quickly. 

As I may continue the the 252 demo when the 552 goes back, it would be nice to know what to do with its Burndy. My Racks aren’t the best, but I feel the 282 is giving it’s all.

Phil

Minh, Like you I spent my career in IT: Telecoms, medical diagnostic imaging, computer security, and other things about which I cannot talk.

 

If that’s a well used 552 you’re demoing you’re in for a surprise and a lot of expense. 

And don’t worry about the cables. Just plug it all in and turn it on. 

Drewy, After three hours from stony cold it’s sounding wonderful. I’ve been told it can take the 552 DR 5 days to get rid of its cold! The 282 + SuperCap DR gives you the cake and this the icing full of subtlety. The 300 is a good partner to both.

Phil

Hi all thx for the previous advice

thought would post outcome......

went for the 250DR, as much as fancied the 300DR is too much of a push at this time and have one eye on fact that NDX2 not too far off in the distance

had the 250DR few day now and is warmed up, really pleased with it and got great deal trading in the SN2, best way can describe is BOOGIE TIME  

That’s good Mark. Had my 250DR for 2 years - superb amp. 

More generally I can’t help but feel that we get a bit carried away in seeking to explain some of the differences that we hear. I know cables and set-up are important but I’m pretty sure that more often it’s just how we’re responding on the day. 

Regards,

Lindsay