Because only stupids never change their mind

Dichotomising is not acceptable for Epidemiologists.

Max,

And I thought that you have changed your mind today after casting your vote.. So who is going to win the Italian elections, the Vinyl party or the Streamers?

H

Haim Ronen posted:

So who is going to win the Italian elections, the Vinyl party

Vinyl Party

That must have some connection to Silvio Berlusconi.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Could it simply be that Brad Mehldau is a boring and uninteresting musician?

This isn’t too boring 

Max_B posted:

As I have posted by way of pictures a few weeks ago, I have added a turntable to my system: a Pro-Ject RPM 3 Carbon with a Grado Blue 1 cart and a Stageline. The Stageline is, for now, powered by my SuperNait but a PSU is on its way.

For years I have refused to do this move, because I didn't like the idea of two very different sources in the same system, which would expose me to the unavoidable risk of comparisons and doubts. As my therapist says, I am dichotomous: it must be this or that.

Now it's this and that, and I am discovering that comparisons are easier to do and differences lighter to carry with me together: it's exactly like I have read for years and systematically contradicted and/or denied: LP is more enjoyable, CD is technically better. Since the move, I have played a number of LPs, some of them quite old and battered, and I have enjoyed each of them; and I have started to finally understand why some CDs sounded boring to me. It's never too late it seems. I am now playing Brad Mehldau's House on Hill, and while the sound is clear, the piano's notes have the proper rising time and decay and so on, I have found all this a very interesting, vaguely entertaining elevator music experience. My 52 years old, mono LP The Firehouse Five plus Two Story, vol.3, is another thing.

Funny that sunny day is here.

M. 

i had before rega rp9 and cdx2/ xps2. For me this two sources gave me the same pleasure, but the sounds were different: the rega gave the fluent and analog sound, the cdx2 / xps2 had the wonderful grip and urgency , a bit more dynamic vs the rega.

On the rega i was listening to true analog recordings between 1970 and 1985, approximately.

On the cdx2 , i was listening to cds for music recorded after 1990.  So i was never thinking which source i will choose, because i had only to choose the album i wanted to hear.

I would never listen to Brad Meldau on a turntable, because the recording is digital, as i would never listen to led zeppelin on a cd player, because the original recording is analog.

Brad Meldau vinyl record must be certainly of average quality, as the majority of the modern lps.  There are exceptions, like mobile fidelity, analogue productions...but these lps are very expensive.  

Second aspect, your tpxps:  i am quite sure that cdx2 with naim xps2 is better by a good step .

TOBYJUG posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

Huge posted:

Minh,

I disagree.  Dichotomous relates quite literally to being cut in two, to be bifurcated.  So Max can have two sources, provided they have diametrically opposed or at least dramatically different characteristics.  Similarly he can have two markedly different CDs and equally two different LPs.  On each he should then listen to two tracks that are as different ends of the spectrum of experiences on that disk. 

I politely disagree with your logic. A truly dichotomous system would be binary: 0 or 1, yes or no, ⚋ or ⚊ ????

But of course, one has the option of two choices. I am disagreeing for the sake of agreeing.

I'm with Huge here.   Dichotomous is more a term to represent a semantic disclosure within the thought processes of language - communication and understanding what's being communicated.    Rather than a term to represent a mathematical process.  Or am I missing something ?

a true dichotomy is no relations between the two parts : the person is in the center, between 2 oppposites parts, and is not able to reunify the two parts.

fatcat posted:

A clarification before the dichotomy subject gets out of hand.

Using a CD and Turntable into ONE amplifiers isn’t dichotomy.

But, using a CD player with TWO amplifiers is.

 

the two sources have their own amplifier, but the same loudspeakers. Max is the loudspeakers.

Huge posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

Huge posted:

Incidentally the reason we seek differing experiences is that we are a specie we thrive by rapidly exploiting opportunities that may arise when new ecological niches occur in the environment.   As part of that biological approach we are omnivores and can obtain nutritional benefit from many different compounds produces by many edible species, a large number of these compounds being unique to that specie or genus.  To help us obtain this varied nutritional benefit we have developed to desire very varied flavours and textures in our food.

Humanity looked to the heavens for inspiration. They saw our place in the universe. We stood between heaven and earth. Norished by the yang of heaven and the yin of earth. You may like to study my avatar because it explains the Chinese theory of creation. Sources are the dao de jing, I ching and daoism. You may find them interesting or complete and utter nonsense. Perhaps it's time to see through different eyes: waiting feels so long.

The Dao is a wonderful work, whichever order in which you read it.

My favourite translation is that of Chu Ta Kao.

In a rather general manner I had also recognised the symbolism of your avatar.

or Tao te King by Lao Tseu....

TOBYJUG posted:

Dichotomising is not acceptable for Epidemiologists.

but paramecium exists ....

French Rooster posted:

Huge posted:

The Dao is a wonderful work, whichever order in which you read it.

My favourite translation is that of Chu Ta Kao.

In a rather general manner I had also recognised the symbolism of your avatar.

or Tao te King by Lao Tseu....

I.e. the original...  If you can read ancient Chinese, otherwise you'll need a translation.

TOBYJUG posted:

Dichotomising is not acceptable for Epidemiologists.

But fine for epistemologists!

Richard Dane posted:

I'm now wondering whether this is a hifi topic (and thus to remain in the Hifi Corner) or something else, in which case... 

Richard,

I have re-read my original post and cannot find anything that justifies the following chaos. I want this closed if possible, thanks. I do not like the path it has taken and I was very wrong in wording part of my first post. M.

Max, congratulations on getting the TT!

I would be terrified heading down that track with the money needed to acquire a vinyl library once again.

Going back to the original post, Max, my take on it is that if you compare vinyl and CD, trying to decide which is better, you are doomed to failure because it depends on the definition (to you) of better, and that may not be constant. But if, as you now seem to be doing, you play them and simply recognise each as different, and derive pleasure from the different sound/presentationof each you have potentially doubled your musical pleasure capability, enjoying each for what it gives, albeit perhaps deciding you like sone music on one, other music on the other.

That I can understand, although for me it was different - perhaps because I had a fixed idea of what “better” is, and ripped my vinyl and sold the TT, with no interest in going back.

As for the course the thread had taken, I think that is simply people picking up and having fun with words, in some cases possibly not even reading or considering the meaning of your original post.

you discovered again the great pleasure of listening to lps, so this part is not a problem or question, just a fact.

The problem you have now is finding the listening to cds boring. I advise you to try , to borrow, an xps2 for your cdx2 and see after if playing cds is still boring.   I had before the cdx2/ xps2 and sometimes regret it, because it was the most wonderful cd player i had the pleasure to listen to, in more than 25 year ! it has a superb prat, involvement, grip and urgency that no cd player could achieve, apart the cd555...  and i had listened a lot, like simaudio 750d, dcs full stack, rega isis, krell kps, métronome kalista....

Give a second chance to your cdx2, with xps2 second hand and good quality din/rca cable, i strongly doubt you will find it boring !   

Back when CD's first appeared most people had both a CDP and TT purely because replacing an enntire record collection with CD's was too costly to do in one hit.  At least 3/4's if not more eventually got rid of the TT and I now wonder if that was purely because of a fashion for smaller things like the all in one box system today or because of SQ?

I wonder if one day in the future just like the vinyl resurgence people will be selling their one box digital systems and returning to multi box analogue systems because the prefer the sound?

Bob the Builder posted:

Back when CD's first appeared most people had both a CDP and TT purely because replacing an enntire record collection with CD's was too costly to do in one hit.  At least 3/4's if not more eventually got rid of the TT and I now wonder if that was purely because of a fashion for smaller things like the all in one box system today or because of SQ?

I wonder if one day in the future just like the vinyl resurgence people will be selling their one box digital systems and returning to multi box analogue systems because the prefer the sound?

Not me.

Whilst I liked the claimed performance,I did not like the sound of CDs to begin with, and it took 7 years from its release  before I found a player that was good enough to stand up to vinyl, and only then did I buy a player. For the next 20 years and one CDP change they sat side by side, my liking both, though I shifted from buying LPs to buying CDs, and ended up with similar number of each.

In terms of sound quality, the gradual deterioration of well-played records became increasingly evident, against the lack of wear of CD, and eventually I decided to rip all my LPs and make them into CDs, which I did, and sold my TT. It was nothing to do with convenience or space, though those are benefits- improved on further with streaming - but with the loss of the physicality of LPs and much more readable sleeve.

Then I switched to streaming, and soon discovered Hugo and then Dave. And Hugo’s character being introduced a naturalness that then at last caused a diehard vinyl loving friend of mine to grudgingly admit vinyl no longer sounded better.

(N.B. direct comparisons of the same recording between CD and LP can be meaningless because of different mastering, which was brought home to me when I first found two copies of nominally the same CD sounding distinctly different, the only visible difference being that one was made in Germany, the other in UK.)

seakayaker posted:

Max, congratulations on getting the TT!

I would be terrified heading down that track with the money needed to acquire a vinyl library once again.

 

Seakayaker,

I don't plan to buy new LPs at all, for two reasons: cost and quality. First, I have a few hundreds already, and as for new productions (but which ones? The 50th recording of  Beethoven's Symphonies? The last revolutionary disc of a band of septuagenarians?) I'll buy – if any – CDs. The TT serves me to replay adequately and pleasantly my existing discotheque.

Alternatively, second hand LPs, made from analogue masters, possibly nothing more recent than the early 90s. I'll try to have some coherence and order in my discotheque. What would I do with a costly new pressing made from a digital recording and/or mastering, then 'vinylized'?

Max

Innocent Bystander posted:

Going back to the original post, Max, my take on it is that if you compare vinyl and CD, trying to decide which is better, you are doomed to failure because it depends on the definition (to you) of better, and that may not be constant. But if, as you now seem to be doing, you play them and simply recognise each as different, and derive pleasure from the different sound/presentationof each you have potentially doubled your musical pleasure capability, enjoying each for what it gives, albeit perhaps deciding you like sone music on one, other music on the other.

(...)

As for the course the thread had taken, I think that is simply people picking up and having fun with words, in some cases possibly not even reading or considering the meaning of your original post.

IB,

sorry for editing your post, but I just acknowledged the central part without a real interest in the topic, because I don't care for streaming yet. Re: the first part, as far as I am concerned you're spot on on the second hypothesis. I really can't see how it could be misunderstood. I never used the word 'better'. I did some minor remarks on the differences between average LP and average CD because I finally am in the position to catch them.

As for the rest, in red, I think you're absolutely right and that it is really so. I write too long posts and expect people, if they start reading, to read them through and, possibly, understand what I wrote. But I am wrong, and I don't want to mention my therapist again, but he is right, as usual, about people.

Max

French Rooster posted:

you discovered again the great pleasure of listening to lps, so this part is not a problem or question, just a fact.

The problem you have now is finding the listening to cds boring. I advise you to try , to borrow, an xps2 for your cdx2 and see after if playing cds is still boring.   I had before the cdx2/ xps2 and sometimes regret it, because it was the most wonderful cd player i had the pleasure to listen to, in more than 25 year ! it has a superb prat, involvement, grip and urgency that no cd player could achieve, apart the cd555...  and i had listened a lot, like simaudio 750d, dcs full stack, rega isis, krell kps, métronome kalista....

Give a second chance to your cdx2, with xps2 second hand and good quality din/rca cable, i strongly doubt you will find it boring !   

FR,

I have had CDX2/XPS-2 at least three times, one fourth time the XPS was DR-ed, so I think I know how it sounds. I don't want – and I couldn't anyway – do any kind of endorsement of what I am using now, but my (4th? 5th?) CDX2 sounds up to my best expectations, so sorry, I'm ok with what I have. BTW, I wouldn't know what to do with a DIN/RCA cable, I use a DIN to DIN IC to go to the SuperNait, by Vertere. Now someone will suggest to use the lavender.. I have had and used I don't know how many. I know everything about how a lavender sounds. The point is that I am not exactly a beginner... But thanks for your concern.

M.

So, to settle the whole thing: I bought a decent LP spinner. I decided to put it in the main system along with my CDX2. I use a Stageline that I plan to power in dual-rail. I rediscovered the pleasure to listen to LPs, especially because most of them comes from when I was in my teens or twenties. I also found that the difference in presentation between LP and CD is not always in favour of one vs the other. As I wrote two pages ago, it's now the one and the other. Simple, isn't it? And I add that I perhaps wouldn't have done it if I hadn't been 'nagged' in this direction patiently and friendly by Chris_M.

M.

Max_B posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I'm now wondering whether this is a hifi topic (and thus to remain in the Hifi Corner) or something else, in which case... 

Richard,

I have re-read my original post and cannot find anything that justifies the following chaos. I want this closed if possible, thanks. I do not like the path it has taken and I was very wrong in wording part of my first post. M.

A democratic process has happend and various people contributed

Why close a thread if its gone in other directions than OP wanted ?

Once there was a song "you can"t allways get what you want"

Berufsverbot perhaps I just talk nonsence

@ Morton: the first part seemed Lennie Tristano on speed, the second is a showcase in knowledge of modes and skills in not taking wrong notes. Who denies that BM is able to play the piano? Now this, though, is also music, IMO:

Enjoy it, and start to breath again.

Max

That’s a wonderful piece - the last track of the Modena concert. 

Actually, this is in Tokyo. But I'm happy that he played it in Modena too, because I have the mp3 of A multitude of Angels in the phone – no irony: it's an Amazon autorip. Yes, wonderful. M.