Sanity check NDX with XPS DR

I don't think you should hesitate to approach a new Naim dealer, especially if the XPS is under warranty. My experience of Naim dealers is that they would still be happy to help you. A new Naim user in their area is a potential new customer for them, so I really don't think they would want to turn you away!

A very similar setup to one of my systems. I think NDX and XPS go really well together.

Before engaging a new dealer, I'd recommend you try the following:

• Strip the whole system down
• Clean all the sockets and plugs (the usual trick is to re-insert a plug around 10-20 times)
• When re-assembling the set, pay particular attention to cable dressing
  • Power supply cables well away from signal cables
  • Make sure all power cables are securely and firmly inserted into their sockets on the backs of your NAIM boxes
  • XPS Burndy hanging freely.
  • Burndy connectors - make sure they are aligned properly and locking collars are firmly in position, before you close them firmly
  • SNAICS - close to each other, not looped, locking collars not too tight (opposite of Burndy)
  • DIN-DIN hanging freely and not touching other cables
  • NDX network cable away from other cables
  • Speaker cables hanging freely and away from power supply cables

ChrisSU posted:

I don't think you should hesitate to approach a new Naim dealer, especially if the XPS is under warranty. My experience of Naim dealers is that they would still be happy to help you. A new Naim user in their area is a potential new customer for them, so I really don't think they would want to turn you away!

+1 Exactly, a good dealer should have an interest in establishing a relatioship with a new Naimee in his area. And an XPS DR is too expensive to not get it checked if you aren’t quite sure whether it works properly.

Make check the polarity of speaker cables is correct at the back of the amp.

Ive made that mistake myself and had the symptoms you describe

also is the earthing set to chassis ground on the ndx 

you using any power strips with led or neon lights ?

it could be an injection of RF from any nearby phone charging device injecting noise into the mains

i suspect though it’s a Burndy issue

Adam Zielinski posted:

A very similar setup to one of my systems. I think NDX and XPS go really well together.

Before engaging a new dealer, I'd recommend you try the following:

• Strip the whole system down
• Clean all the sockets and plugs (the usual trick is to re-insert a plug around 10-20 times)
• When re-assembling the set, pay particular attention to cable dressing
  • Power supply cables well away from signal cables
  • Make sure all power cables are securely and firmly inserted into their sockets on the backs of your NAIM boxes
  • XPS Burndy hanging freely.
  • Burndy connectors - make sure they are aligned properly and locking collars are firmly in position, before you close them firmly
  • SNAICS - close to each other, not looped, locking collars not too tight (opposite of Burndy)
  • DIN-DIN hanging freely and not touching other cables
  • NDX network cable away from other cables
  • Speaker cables hanging freely and away from power supply cables

Thank you, Adam.  I thought it could be a set-up problem, but I’ve tried all of the above on several occasions - I even had wall sockets added to remove an ‘audiophile’ multi-plug extension I thought might be the cause.  The only other suspicion I have is that my NAS and router is connected on the same power circuit, but I struggle to believe the XPS would be more affected by that than the NDX bare.  In fact, the system sounds “right”, without the XPS, so it seems to be the cause.

It looks like your experience is that NDX/XPS isn’t forward or bright, so perhaps I do need to get the XPS or Burndy checked out. 

analogmusic posted:

Make check the polarity of speaker cables is correct at the back of the amp.

Ive made that mistake myself and had the symptoms you describe

also is the earthing set to chassis ground on the ndx 

you using any power strips with led or neon lights ?

it could be an injection of RF from any nearby phone charging device injecting noise into the mains

i suspect though it’s a Burndy issue

 

Yep, speaker cables all good!  Earthing set to chasis. There is a power strip with LED on the other side of the room... could this be the culprit? I’ll remove it later, thanks!  

I think you’re probably confirming my suspicion; my Burndy looks more like a corkscrew than a cable these days. It’s impossible to straighten it out, no matter how much gentle shaking and wobbling it gets, so maybe I should try another as the most likely issue.

Thanks for your comments, they’re very helpful.

Seth

And then there is the question of whether you have a Cisco 2960 8TC L switch for your NDX and NAS. Plenty of discussion about this up to yesterday.

Phil

Worth trying the suggestions above for sure but I wonder perhaps whether in your particular system, the bare NDX is simply a better fit. Conventional wisdom would suggest a HiCap is a dead cert upgrade for my Nac202 however I have tried three of them (Olive, Black non-DR and a DR) and all gave an effect just as you describe. Better resolution and timing but at the expense of being too forward and brittle sounding. In the end, just not as enjoyable to listen to even if initially impressive. I tried an XPS2 on my NDX once also... again not preferable to the unit bare. Odd and a little frustrating as I'm sure you understand. Give the suggestions a shot though, you may fix the issue and if not, at least you'll know you tried.

Also worth mentioning... the NDX all on its own is a well balanced, great sounding machine regardless of whether or not it is improved by a power-supply!

You might just prefer it bare in which case, are free to sell the XPS. It's not a crime to go against the grain of forum opinion.

I found the XPSdr made my NDX sound like it had gone from being a digital source to an analogue one. Not vinyl (only vinyl sounds like vinyl) but maybe high end reel to reel or similar. Hence it seems to me an ideal source for those that feel CD players leave them cold.

As a digital source, it couldn't sound more different to a CDX2.

But that is clearly not everyone's experience and that's okay. By all means have it checked out but don't force yourself to hear what you don't just because you think you should.

Bunny Colvin posted:

Worth trying the suggestions above for sure but I wonder perhaps whether in your particular system, the bare NDX is simply a better fit. Conventional wisdom would suggest a HiCap is a dead cert upgrade for my Nac202 however I have tried three of them (Olive, Black non-DR and a DR) and all gave an effect just as you describe. Better resolution and timing but at the expense of being too forward and brittle sounding. In the end, just not as enjoyable to listen to even if initially impressive. I tried an XPS2 on my NDX once also... again not preferable to the unit bare. Odd and a little frustrating as I'm sure you understand. Give the suggestions a shot though, you may fix the issue and if not, at least you'll know you tried.

Also worth mentioning... the NDX all on its own is a well balanced, great sounding machine regardless of whether or not it is improved by a power-supply!

Thanks for your honest opinion. If it’s just that the XPS unbalances my system in a way I don’t like, I’m fine with that.  I just don’t know if there’s something else going wrong, so it’s very helpful to hear others’ experiences.  There seems to be an inconsistent view of NDX with XPS, which seems odd.  I do agree that the NDX on its own does seem to have some very special elements to its sound, though - perhaps I’m missing those when the XPS is in place.

feeling_zen posted:

You might just prefer it bare in which case, are free to sell the XPS. It's not a crime to go against the grain of forum opinion.

I found the XPSdr made my NDX sound like it had gone from being a digital source to an analogue one. Not vinyl (only vinyl sounds like vinyl) but maybe high end reel to reel or similar. Hence it seems to me an ideal source for those that feel CD players leave them cold.

As a digital source, it couldn't sound more different to a CDX2.

But that is clearly not everyone's experience and that's okay. By all means have it checked out but don't force yourself to hear what you don't just because you think you should.

Thank you, feeling_zen. I’m happy to accept it’s just a preference, but your description of NDX/XPS is very different to what I’m hearing and very close to what I want to hear!  It just feels odd that there could be such a discrepancy. Preferences are one thing, but either I have a fault or need to buy a SuperCap ;-) 

Filipe posted:

And then there is the question of whether you have a Cisco 2960 8TC L switch for your NDX and NAS. Plenty of discussion about this up to yesterday.

Phil

Nope! :-D

Using a power supply on a source (except for NDS or CDS3) is not mandatory
Just use the system in a way that is pleasing for you. 

I actually prefer my NDX with a non-DR version of 555PS.

I would contact you new local dealer, or even your old one, and ask if they could send you a new burndy to try. It sounds very much as though you are experienced in setting up the system, but just in case - after flexing the burndy to loosen it up as much as possible, bend it into shape so that the plugs slip onto the connectors with no twisting. The black rings have one larger black sticky-out bit that always goes at the top, which makes this a bit easier. Hopefully you know what I mean - it’s hard to describe. If sorting out your burndy doesn’t fix things, ask for a new one. It’s an odd situation - adding the XPS should make things sound nicer and easier to listen to, rather than the complete opposite. 

Mind you, things are looking up for the forum, no one has suggested the 555PS yet!

.sjb

Adam Zielinski posted:

Using a power supply on a source (except for NDS or CDS3) is not mandatory
Just use the system in a way that is pleasing for you. 

I actually prefer my NDX with a non-DR version of 555PS.

It’s not mandatory, but it should be an upgrade. Why did you prefer the non-DR 555?  Was it for similar reasons?  Better balance?

Seth

Hungryhalibut posted:

I would contact you new local dealer, or even your old one, and ask if they could send you a new burndy to try. It sounds very much as though you are experienced in setting up the system, but just in case - after flexing the burndy to loosen it up as much as possible, bend it into shape so that the plugs slip onto the connectors with no twisting. The black rings have one larger black sticky-out bit that always goes at the top, which makes this a bit easier. Hopefully you know what I mean - it’s hard to describe. If sorting out your burndy doesn’t fix things, ask for a new one. It’s an odd situation - adding the XPS should make things sound nicer and easier to listen to, rather than the complete opposite. 

I understand. There are only so many times I’m willing to tickle this cable, but I’ll give it another go!  I think I’ll try to track down a dealer later, at least it will help to remove doubts. 

Thank you!

Seth

Seth posted:

Filipe posted:

And then there is the question of whether you have a Cisco 2960 8TC L switch for your NDX and NAS. Plenty of discussion about this up to yesterday.

Phil

Nope! :-D

The switch makes a big difference to SQ. Really don’t want to bore everyone. You should read what Simon in Suffolk has to say on various recent threads. It costs £50 approx.

Phil

Sloop John B posted:

Mind you, things are looking up for the forum, no one has suggested the 555PS yet!

.sjb

I did worry when a started this topic! Part of the problem is that many do seem intent on suggesting upgrades rather than making the most of what they’ve got. 

Seth posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Mind you, things are looking up for the forum, no one has suggested the 555PS yet!

.sjb

I did worry when a started this topic! Part of the problem is that many do seem intent on suggesting upgrades rather than making the most of what they’ve got. 

You are right. Even the simplest, or oddest Naim system can sound very well.

Adam has given many suggestions which you have followed up.

I have read more of these kind of issues and quite often there was some issue with the Burndy, as said by others before. The simplest way to check is to borrow one from your dealer.

Seth posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Using a power supply on a source (except for NDS or CDS3) is not mandatory
Just use the system in a way that is pleasing for you. 

I actually prefer my NDX with a non-DR version of 555PS.

It’s not mandatory, but it should be an upgrade. Why did you prefer the non-DR 555?  Was it for similar reasons?  Better balance?

Seth

Three reasons actually:

1. I found that XPS DR did not add anything ‘meaningful’ in my system - at least not enough to justify buying it new.

2. I then tested 555PS DR and non-DR with my NDS, so naturally I also tried it on my NDX. 555PS non-DR seemed like a perfect match for the NDX (incidentally I found I prefered NDS with a DR version)

3. Cost - I bought the non-DR 555PS for 60% of the price of a new XPS DR.

In your case, the first thing I’d look at is that twisted Burndy cable first, though.

Thank you, all, for your assistance. S-XPS Burndy now on its way to me. Fingers crossed; if it doesn’t solve the issue, I’ll just have to slum it with a bare NDX (which is sounding quite lovely ATM) ;-)

If everything else is OK with the set-up then casting a suspicious eye towards the Burndy cable would be my most likely bet here.  I have found that if they're not freed off a bit ("relaxed" I think is the favoured word) then a certain hardness or flatness to the sound can result.  I hope it goes well..

If your system sounded good before your move, then there is reason why it should need a replacement S XPS Burndy, which will take a long time to burn in and leave a hole in your pocket unless Naim agree to test it for free. If something was damaged another matter it may need fixing.

You can expect your system to need to warm up for at least 5 days and possibly longer after the move, but I assume it has and it’s on all the time. 

Room acoustics will be different and the noise on the mains within the ‘house’ and imported will be different. You may be siteing system relative to speakers differently.

In my experience, hardness etc as you describe has many origins with all the above posts good. The only way to isolate noise with your home network is to have the recommend switch. 

Phil

Have you tried a non Dr  xps? I didn't like what the xps Dr did to my system love the xps though