Sanity check NDX with XPS DR

Richard Dane posted:

If everything else is OK with the set-up then casting a suspicious eye towards the Burndy cable would be my most likely bet here.  I have found that if they're not freed off a bit ("relaxed" I think is the favoured word) then a certain hardness or flatness to the sound can result.  I hope it goes well..

Everything sounds great without the XPS, so hopefully an alternative Burndy will reveal a problem with mine. Thank you, Richard.

Seth

Filipe posted:

If your system sounded good before your move, then there is reason why it should need a replacement S XPS Burndy, which will take a long time to burn in and leave a hole in your pocket unless Naim agree to test it for free. If something was damaged another matter it may need fixing.

You can expect your system to need to warm up for at least 5 days and possibly longer after the move, but I assume it has and it’s on all the time. 

Room acoustics will be different and the noise on the mains within the ‘house’ and imported will be different. You may be siteing system relative to speakers differently.

In my experience, hardness etc as you describe has many origins with all the above posts good. The only way to isolate noise with your home network is to have the recommend switch. 

Phil

Hello Phil,

The strange thing is that everything sounds really great when the XPS is removed. If it was the network / mains / siting, wouldn’t it be apparent without the XPS?

Seth

True Blue posted:

Have you tried a non Dr  xps? I didn't like what the xps Dr did to my system love the xps though

I haven’t. What didn’t you like about the DR? Not what I’m complaining about was it? ;-)

The Dr version for me was too revealing almost analytical. Lost my foot tapping along. 

The way i interpret replay now is that hardness represents some inability to drive the reproduction of the input signal completely. So if it partially succeeds with some level of detail the resultant sound can be worse than if it just simplifies the sound such as by not revealing as much detail. Its a bit like clipping. So some music which is less demanding sounds better than that which is more demanding.

The power supplies provide the juice (electrons). If there are in short supply the output cant follow the input at that amplifier stage. The resultant  sounds depends a bit on what was in the music.

If you find it better without an xps then that makes sense, but the detail wont be there. Mains and other things affect the way elections  flow.

Phil

True Blue posted:

The Dr version for me was too revealing almost analytical. Lost my foot tapping along. 

So, yes, similar to what I’m complaining about! Thanks, True Blue, perhaps I’m not a DR fan too. I’m going to try a replacement Burndy and if that still doesn’t do it for me, I’ll move the XPS on.

Seth

Filipe posted:

If you find it better without an xps then that makes sense, but the detail wont be there. Mains and other things affect the way elections  flow.

Phil

I think you’re saying an upgraded source might be revealing problems with my system that I can’t hear with a lesser source?  My experience is that upgrading an amp can reveal the shortcomings of a poorer source, but is it possible the other way?

I think I might sell the lot and buy an Apple HomePod for less than the price of a burndy! ;-)

Not sure if your XPSDR is new, but if it is, DR power supplies take a while to settle in and sound right.

For what it is worth, I used a NDX bare for years and never felt the urge to upgrade it with a power supply.

Looks like you have tried everything and if the new Burndy doesn't sort it, maybe you are one that prefers no PS or XPS non-DR on your NDX. You won't be the first and I guess you won't be the last.

Good luck and I hope you manage to sort things.

Plenty of pre loved xps2 s out there

Thank you, all - you’re a credit to Naim.

Well, it’s a little early to say for sure (XPS has only had 3 hours warm up), but with a new Burndy, the NDX/XPS experience seems very different to the one I’m used to.  And curiously, the cable is quite different to the one I’m used to - more flexible, straight, connectors fit more easily.

Hopefully, it doesn’t warm up to become agressive, but I’m certainly hearing, “my NDX sound like it had gone from being a digital source to an analogue one”!  Thanks again for your help.

Seth

That’s great, and hopefully it will address the issues you were having. The XPSDR is really good and should be fine when everything comes on song. The new Burndy will take a while to run in - quite a while in fact - so just enjoy the music and try not to overanalyse things. 

That's good Seth. Perhaps you can report back in a week or so?

Placement of the XPS makes a big difference as well. Have it as far away from the NDX as you can.

I suspect the above comment is more to do with Burndy cable dressing and correct tension than anything else. Always make sure the burndy is loose, ideally not touching other things such as a floor, mains or Ethernet cables, and ensure the cables are not strained and twisted at the connectors. Insert the burndy by holding the cables rather than the connectors.

If you take care above I have found PSU placement less crucial, especially when not carrying audio such as the XPS2 and PS555, but I do keep my NDX separated from my NAC by at least a Fraim layer space.

It’s a little diva, this Burndy, isn’t it?  Another day on and I’m still getting analogue-like sound and no hardness.  

I’ve always struggled with equipment placement, as there seem to be lots of contradictory ideas.  I have one Fraim - having two doesn’t really make sense for my “smaller” system.  One side XPS, NAP and HiCap, the other, NAC and NDX, but separated and not on the bottom shelf?  How does that work?

I live with NAC282, NDX, HiCap, NAP250, XPS top to bottom.  Switching the NAC and NDX creates a subtle change, but nothing fundamental. Is there a better arrangement?

 We have nearly the same system albeit a SCDR instead of a HCDR and on Quadraspire. On a single rack, I'd say you have it placed okay, though, I'd put the 250 on the bottom since it has the most fluctuating current of all three transformers as it drives the speakers. 

If you can get different spacers for the Fraim shelves you might consider using a larger spacer for the top and bottom most shelves. It is cheaper to do this with Quadraspire so it may not be an option for you. I find this allows you to have extra space between the 282 and anything else (being the most sensitive component), and then extra space between the 250 and everything else (being the most dirty component). The NAPSC can happily sit on the floor (though I have small midi sized rack for the headphone stuff which the NAPSC lives on).

Seth posted:

And curiously, the cable is quite different to the one I’m used to - more flexible, straight, connectors fit more easily.

Was it a Naim Burndy? I believe there are a few copies on the market. 

ChrisSU posted:

Seth posted:

And curiously, the cable is quite different to the one I’m used to - more flexible, straight, connectors fit more easily.

Was it a Naim Burndy? I believe there are a few copies on the market. 

The outer sheath looks identical, including what’s printed on it. I’d say it was an extremely accurate copy, if it was one.  If I had to explain the difference, I’d say the old one appears to have been constructed very tightly, with conductors twisted a lot, making it very much stiffer. Over its use, the twisting has loosened, causing the cable itself to become a spiral. The new cable flexes like a hose, as if the conductors inside have room to move a little inside, rather than a coathanger!  

Thanks, feeling_zen, I’ll give those a try, once the Burndy has settled in.

Seth

my NDX is bare in my system NDX/282/HCDR/300DR/FRAIM

when i spent a day with my dealer testing various upgrades - i personally did not find the XPSDR added enough to NDX to consider that before the AMP upgrade

as others have said the 555 either non or DR was different story

are you happyto leave XPSDR out of system for a while? and then look at 555 PX or when new NDX2 comes out demo that we XPSDR?? just a couple of thoughts

the single biggest upgrade was adding in a 300 and then the DR

antony d posted:

Seth

my NDX is bare in my system NDX/282/HCDR/300DR/FRAIM

when i spent a day with my dealer testing various upgrades - i personally did not find the XPSDR added enough to NDX to consider that before the AMP upgrade

as others have said the 555 either non or DR was different story

are you happyto leave XPSDR out of system for a while? and then look at 555 PX or when new NDX2 comes out demo that we XPSDR?? just a couple of thoughts

the single biggest upgrade was adding in a 300 and then the DR

 

Hello Antony,

It’s only a couple of years since I upgraded to a new NAP250 (DR), and luckily, my dealer didn’t stock the 300 at the time!  I’ll bet it sounds wonderful?  

I’ve replaced the XPS Burndy cable on my XPS DR and it’s a totally different animal now! Really enjoying it, so far.  The old cable must have been damaged.  I’m going to leave the XPS in for a couple of weeks and then take it off - that should help me decide whether I keep it or not. If I decide not to keep it, at least I can sell it knowing it’s in good order now.

I’m quite excited about the NDX2. Really like that new screen and (as a software geek) very intrigued to see what Naim have been up to with their streaming solution... as long as there’s no return of Windows Embedded!

Thanks for your thoughts, alway great to hear what other people are doing with/for their love of music.

Seth

That's good to hear Seth. The old Burndy may not have been damaged but possibly one or both of the strain reliefs on the connectors may have been over-tightened when constructed. Over-tight and the sound just comes across as a bit flat, constricted and sometimes with a bit of an edge.  It's a fine line between being tight enough and over-tight, so it can happen from time to time. The main thing is, it's performing much better already, so you can now better appreciate the upgrade an XPS DR brings to the NDX.