Is a NAP 300 too much for a 282?

Unfortunately I feel there is an elitist mentality on this form that is in part to blame for both Chord Sarum and Naim Super Lumina pricing being accepted but I doubt the very small minority of Chord and Naim owners that are members here can be blamed for the pricing nor the dealers that sell them,  that is the fault of the two companies. 

I'd really like to see the price breakdown of producing these wildly expensive cables that would be interesting reading.

Upfront apologies to the OP if this is viewed as a diversion.

I am not suggesting that the margins on posh cables are not significant, but any manufacturer worth their salt will charge what the market will bear and no more or less. This is a high development cost/low volume market where margins tend inevitably to be on the high side. This is also a niche market where there tends to be a higher degree of assessment (via demos) by potential purchasers due to the high cost and apparent low material value. 

Surely no one buys expensive cables without hearing the difference they deliver over more modest (commonly used) cables. I guess some will be sucked in by the hype and buy untried purely on the recommendation of others, but I suspect these individuals will be in a minority. Personally I took ages with home demos of SL cables before I decided to jump.

If you accept my argument then we agree that in the majority of cases posh cables are bought because in the eyes (or rather ears) of the customer they offer sufficient value to justify their admittedly high price. That means posh cables actually do have to deliver the sonic goods or they will never sell in sufficient quantities to provide the manufacturer (and dealer) with a decent profit. No one is forced to buy and very few posh cables would be sold unless they delivered on SQ grounds.

Now whether we agree that such cables do make a sufficient difference in SQ is a whole different question and one that probably causes most debate.

Only my humble opinion of course.

Bob the Builder posted:

Unfortunately I feel there is an elitist mentality on this form that is in part to blame for both Chord Sarum and Naim Super Lumina pricing being accepted but I doubt the very small minority of Chord and Naim owners that are members here can be blamed for the pricing nor the dealers that sell them,  that is the fault of the two companies. 

I'd really like to see the price breakdown of producing these wildly expensive cables that would be interesting reading.

Sorry BtB, but I don't agree with your suggestion of the elitist mentality.  I agree the SL cables are costly but it really boils down to this: if you can hear a performance improvement from using the SL cables, and you feel that the magnitude of that performance improvement justifies the cost, that's all that matters.  For me it did. I posted at the time that the magnitude of the performance improvement was equivalent to some black-box upgrades that I have made e.g. putting a 555PS on my nDAC to replace an XP5XS.

I think your argument betrays a line of thinking that some components should be dearer or cheaper than others. I think it important to remember that it is the whole system's performance that really matters, not the individual bits.  Sometimes that system approach can lead to some counter-intuitive outcomes. For example, the first Powerline I ever heard was when my dealer brought one round suggesting I try one on the Napsc powering the controls on my 282.  The proposition seemed very unlikely.  But, keeping an open mind, I tried it and was stunned at the impact it made. I promptly bought a PL and the thought that the PL cost more than the Napsc it was attached to didn't trouble me one little bit.

Elitist? No.  As Nigel said you trial them and decide according to your own priorities. 

analogmusic posted:

that's because the likes of Chord make 2000 GBP cable with Sarum cables,

The sarum effect is one of those myths perpetuated ad nauseam by this forum, and there you have it, the price is acceptable, and the Superlumina is priced at Sarum levels.

Had the Naim community rejected Sarum because of the prices as it should have, SL would be priced more reasonably

as some point buyer fatigue sets in, and Naim would have wiser to price the SL more reasonably so that people would buy more black boxes. 

They should have remembered their own business model, no expensive cables needed with Naim gear and people spend the money on the boxes.

The cable are very good, but the prices are not.

 

Analogue - Naim never said expensive weren’t needed what they said was that they had never found any that made a significant difference over their stock cables but they would continue to review it but users were free to experiment. 

No the 300 is not too much for the 282. If you have the money get down to your dealer and listen. 

another vote for 282/300 - had non 300 which is now DR, i also have HCDR for 282, will borrow SCDR when time is right to look at upgrade but for the moment I am more than deligted with 282/CHDR/300DR

Glad the discussion has returned to my original question :-)

Dave, 

       I first heard a non DR 300 on the end of a 282 and it was wonderful, and significantly challenged my source first matra.

      BUT........

       Last year I had my 250 DR'd. The non DR version had worked well in my system with a 282 and everybody said the 250DR was such an improvement that DR'ing it was a no brainer. I didn't even bother to ask my dealer for an audition of the 250DR before committing myself to the conversion. Well the result was a system I could barely listen to, even after the requisite 4 month break in period. It was shouty and harsh to my ears.

      I now have a 252 with the 250DR and I'm waiting for my, fully auditioned 300, to arrive soon.

     So is a 300 too much for a 282? Well it might be, and it might not be 

Pau. 

Pau,

Oh - complete opposite to me.   I couldn’t cope with the non-DR 250 but the DR version I have found just sublime. 

No absolutes in this game!

Regards,

Lindsay

If a 300DR works well with my manky old 272 there is no reason why it wouldn’t work perfectly with a 282. The 300 is a brilliant power amp.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

 

No absolutes in this game!

 

Lindsay,

       I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I believe absolute advice like that, HH has given in the very next post;

       "If a 300DR works well with my manky old 272 there is no reason why it wouldn’t work perfectly with a 282."

        needs to be recognised, as being, as unhelpful, as it is incorrect,

regards

     Paul.

ps I agree with HH's assertion that "The 300 is a brilliant power amp."

I don’t see why it’s unhelpful in any way. I did not say that it definitely would work well, rather that there is no reason it wouldn’t. People stress about these things too much. It’s simply a case of trying something and seeing if it floats your boat. 

Vauxhall mkII posted:

Dave, 

       I first heard a non DR 300 on the end of a 282 and it was wonderful, and significantly challenged my source first matra.

      BUT........

       Last year I had my 250 DR'd. The non DR version had worked well in my system with a 282 and everybody said the 250DR was such an improvement that DR'ing it was a no brainer. I didn't even bother to ask my dealer for an audition of the 250DR before committing myself to the conversion. Well the result was a system I could barely listen to, even after the requisite 4 month break in period. It was shouty and harsh to my ears.

      I now have a 252 with the 250DR and I'm waiting for my, fully auditioned 300, to arrive soon.

     So is a 300 too much for a 282? Well it might be, and it might not be 

 

Pau. 

That's less to do with 282/250dr vs 300dr and more to do with the fact a 250.2 and 250dr are just simply different amps. If you matched your system carefully and then swap out any component without auditioning first, you can easily break the balance of the system.

I say this from experience. I did the same thing. Upgraded my 250.2 to DR spec and just expected it to work in the system. It didn't and no amount of running in would change that. The 250DR could well be better but better and worse are not as relevent as synergy. I did happen to change the speakers which then brought the synergy back and then some and the system was better than it had ever been.

On to the OP's question, there is an identical thread to this not yet cold in the ground. To paraphrase what I said there, anything you can reasonably pair with a 252, be it sources, power amps or speakers, you can pair with a 282. Whether you like it or not is one thing. In the case of a 282/SCDR, the idea that a NAP300 is too much for a GBP8K preamp is utter nonsense.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I don’t see why it’s unhelpful in any way. I did not say that it definitely would work well, rather that there is no reason it wouldn’t. People stress about these things too much. It’s simply a case of trying something and seeing if it floats your boat. 

Nigel,

    I've been a member of this forum for more years than I can remember, and I have personally appreciated many of yours and others, well informed posts. And the final sentence of your reply above is an example of the best advice that any of us  can give.

However, occasionally we make absolute statements, that while they may be true for ourselves, cannot be guaranteed to be true for others, and in the light of the status of the particular contributor, can be misunderstood, if not deliberately misleading 

Paul.

Vauxhall mkII posted:

 I've been a member of this forum for more years than I can remember......

Wasn't there a Nait 5 back in the day, Paul?

Now back to topic.

Christopher_M posted:

Vauxhall mkII posted:

 I've been a member of this forum for more years than I can remember......

Wasn't there a Nait 5 back in the day, Paul?

Now back to topic.

        Not unless I've forgotten 

Vauxhall mkII posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Vauxhall mkII posted:

 I've been a member of this forum for more years than I can remember......

Wasn't there a Nait 5 back in the day, Paul?

Now back to topic.

        Not unless I've forgotten 

My memory playing tricks.