Upgrade from 5si series

Y.T.L.   Welcome to the forum,  

It would be useful to know what your budget is? 

Do you want to buy new or pre-loved boxes?

Y.T.L - That's a nice system. I'm just wondering, given your issues when the volume is raised, what your room is like, size, furnishings, speaker placement etc ?

James

Continuing James' thoughts, room treatment/bass traps might be indicated. Proper racking as well. These should help clean up the current sound and will benefit any future box upgrades.

wenger2015 posted:

Y.T.L.   Welcome to the forum,  

It would be useful to know what your budget is? 

Do you want to buy new or pre-loved boxes?

 

Hi Wenger,

My budget is around USD3,500

I would’nt mind it’s second-handed.

However, not many people use Naim in my country,

so it would be hard to find a pre-loved one.

james n posted:

Y.T.L - That's a nice system. I'm just wondering, given your issues when the volume is raised, what your room is like, size, furnishings, speaker placement etc ?

James

 

Hi James,

My room is small, the size is around 15 sqmeter.

It has a bed, a table and some shelf inside,

walls are solid, but there’s a window on the backwall,

which I usually cover with curtain.

Floor is made of tiles.

I place my speakers 1m away from back wall, 70cm from side walls.

The distance between two speakers is 1.35m, with small toe-in.

Thanks Y.T.L. I'd look at the room as it sounds like it's quite 'live' and this may be causing the effects you hear when you turn up the volume. I'd consider taking some advice from Joe (I'm sure a few more will pop up here who have experience in this area too) and improve the room acoustics and then see if you still feel the need to upgrade the equipment.

James

joerand posted:

Continuing James' thoughts, room treatment/bass traps might be indicated. Proper racking as well. These should help clean up the current sound and will benefit any future box upgrades.

james n posted:

Thanks Y.T.L. I'd look at the room as it sounds like it's quite 'live' and this may be causing the effects you hear when you turn up the volume. I'd consider taking some advice from Joe (I'm sure a few more will pop up here who have experience in this area too) and improve the room acoustics and then see if you still feel the need to upgrade the equipment.

James

 

Thanks for the advice, Joerand and James.

Unfortunately, I live in a dormitory,

so acoustic treatment is almost impossible.(Unless it’s recoverable)

Since Fraim is unacccesable in my country,

anyone knows some good rack synergy well with Naimthat can be ordered from the internet?

Besides, if room effect is the main cause,

anybody have an idea that how effective is changing equipment?

If it does seems to work, I am willing to spend money on it,

if it doesn’t, then I think I can just save my budget and wait until I move to a new place.

Y.T.L posted:

When hear at low volume, everything sound as good as I wish, but when I play something like Mahler Symphony No.2 or Paganini's La Campanella,

when the volume goes high, the bass get muddy and the imaging become terrible.

My findings exactly when I tried that combo. CD5si is a good CD player, however I also found the bass to be boomy/ muddy.

This is what I did:
First, try a different source, whatever dac or cd player and see if it improves or get worse. (to rule out the source issue.)

And If you like to keep the CD player, I would suggest other speaker cables, Chord Epic Twin or TQ Black II.  (as always with cables, people will argue.)
But Nait 5si is a great entry level amplifier and with the proper source and cabling it’s very capable indeed. A lot of people would be surprised!

Hi YTG, what I think you should remember is that if you upgrade your amp, you can upset the balance of your system, as the source would than be lacking. So following the 'source first' doctrine (search this forum and you will find many pages of arguments about this!) you should improve your CD player first. Then, if your budget allows, upgrade your amp. You should bear in mind that Naim have recently discontinued the CD5XS, so you may not be able to find one. This could work in your favour, as dealers often sell off their remaining stock at a discount.

Either a Nait XS or a 152/155 would be a good partner for a CD5XS, so if you find a good used model at the right price, go for it. Remember, if buying used, that at 10 to 15 years, they may need a service to perform at their best, which is an extra cost, and depending on your location, an inconvenience. As you improve your electronics, proper installation becomes increasingly important, so bear in mind that a proper rack with a separate shelf for each component is important.

Finally, as Naim CD players are being discontinued, have you considered ripping your CDs and using a streamer instead? An ND5XS would fit your system nicely if you do this. It has also been discontinued recently, as a new version is going to be released, so there may be good prices on the old model. 

Good luck with your decision!

Y.T.L posted:

Since Fraim is unacccesable in my country,

anyone knows some good rack synergy well with Naimthat can be ordered from the internet?

 

Popular racks with Naim users are Hutter, Isoblue and Quadraspire.

I can second the suggestion to upgrade to an XS2/ND5XS combo -- that is what I am using, and I rather like it. So I am actually biased.  Before choosing the XS2, I compared it to the 5Si. It only took a few keystrokes of Beethoven's Moonlight sonata to decide in favour of the XS2 (that was with ProAc's Anniversary Tablette). And ditching a CD player for a streamer seems like a no-brainer to me (especially, considering your space constraints in a dormitory) -- but this seems to divide the forum... 

try a headphone with the naim nait 5si for western classical music

maybe no need for costly upgrades and room treatment etc..

regards

I'm led to believe the Dynaudio 160 generally demands more powerful amplifiers than the Nait 5si to reach its potential.  It probably needs a jump beyond the xs series and straight to the Supernait to come into its own.  I imagine you could get one between 2.5 - 3k used. 

That would leave you a bit short for buying a source component.  I would recommend Chord DACs - they sound very good with Naim, especially the Hugo if you can find one.  For CD players the CD5X should fit into the budget, or possibly a Rega Saturn.

Of course if you change your speakers to something friendlier to your amp (like a Spendor s3/5r) you may yet be satisfied with your 5si pair.  

Regardless of chosen path I'm going to suggest you hang onto your 5si combo if you can.  The fact is they play great music together and will always serve as a good backup.  The upgrade path is a bumpy one;  a bigger price tag doesn't always bring more satisfaction.  If you need to start over or change direction having these as backup will help.

I use to own the Focus 160s and a Nait 5i, and I totally agree that when turning up the volume the 5i would get shouty and the bass would go downhill. 

I upgraded to the XS (60 watt) and the performance was waaayyyyy better. I now have the Uniti Star and Focus 260s and the combo is AMAZING. I think an XS2 would be the place to start, I’ve heard he CD5i with XS and the combo works very well together.

Contrary to common belief Dynaudio’s aren’t as hard to power as they look on paper, the impedance is very flat and always stays above 4 ohms. 

I’d suggest starting with the XS2 and see how well you like that combo.

Y.T.L posted:

Unfortunately, I live in a dormitory, so acoustic treatment is almost impossible.(Unless it’s recoverable)

Besides, if room effect is the main cause, anybody have an idea that how effective is changing equipment?

Bass traps can be set on the floor in room corners, so yes they're recoverable and should go far in cleaning up the sound.

Racking, in my experience, is the most fundamental aspect in obtaining the best output from an existing system. If you don't have proper racking, the sonic vagaries will only manifest themselves to a greater degree with box upgrades and you'll be chasing your tail. Get a good rack from the get-go and it will carry its benefits through any subsequent upgrades.

The first thing I'd do before spending any amount of money is...aquire a largish thick  rug to cover those tiles....thicker curtains over the window and a few pillows around the room ....that should at least calm down the room to an extent....then see where you are from there...it's quite amazing what a bit of sound dampening can do.....and you might have no need to spend further until that upgrade bug bites.

As to address the OP I would upgrade from Nait 5si to S/H 202/200, alternatively SN2. Upgrading to the XS series does’t offer enough VFM once you are on the Naim ladder. ????

Chag -

CDX2. Jump two levels for better vfm.

Is it true the circuit boards for the si range are made in China.