Anyone with experience using a 552DR with a 250DR?

Used mine with a 250-2 with enjoyment and subtlty was a major part of the gain over a 282, I’ve never heard a 252.

It’s a sensitive blighter, what have you got above, below and to the side of it?

You have removed the transit bolts haven’t you?

What source? Fraim?

Are the Burndys relaxed and off the floor?

I’m surprised.  When I was auditioning speakers one dealer didn’t have a 282 on the day I was there and paired a 552DR with a 250DR and it was just mesmerizing.  

I’ve had Naim’s demo 552 DR for 16 days now. After 5 it showed sign of warming up, but would revert and sound very odd. It may never had much continuous running, but now it is showing its pedigree. 

Its sounds very natural with wow. There is no lack of clarity to the notes, and no instruments sounding indistinct. You hear everything. Your music genres may react differently if only because you will hear them closer to way they sounded when recorded. Your sources will be put to the test.

After not liking the demo DC1 because of some hardness with the 282/SCDR preferring the warmer sound of my Chord Clearway digital, I found the Chord became too mellow and went back to the DC1! There are no absolutes in this HiFi game!

So I would not cast judgement too soon on the combo you have. Certainly the 300DR is a good partner.

Phil

Do you have enough rack space to set up both preamps and their PSUs optimally, with correct cable dressing? If not, you may be giving the 252 an unfair advantage.

Also, for me, A/B comparisons are often inconclusive. I prefer to just listen to the new component for perhaps a week, then change back to the old one and see what you're missing.

Hi BritishSea; Could the relatively small differences of improvement attributable to the rack? Are you on Fraim and optimized empty above and under the NACs? ????

Chag -

I use a 250.2 with my 552 - so far I prefer that in my setup to a 250DR, but that may well change in the future as my mood changes.

However the 552DR provides quite a significant sonic difference to the 252DR I came from - a  sonic presentation that does seem to make many  tracks sound different almost as if different mixes.... so there is an element of getting used to the 552 - but what it what does give you is a more intense, atmospheric and immsersive experience with more pronounced frequency extremes  - timing seems to become sharper, as well as imaging and the detail in the audio can be quite uncanny. Now on some recordings and genres the slightly more filtered and smoother sound of the 252 can make some recording easier to listen to, albeit less intensely  - like very compressed rock with aggressive EQ - so if that is most of your diet and your are more of a passive listener then the 252 might be better suited .. but for most other areas to the 552 is a natural and enjoyable advancement.

Yes there is hyperbole spoken on this forum, and in my most humble of opinions some of it is drivel - the 552 is not magic - it doesn't create music - and it cant create something that isn't there - its not night and day from a 252 - yada yada yada - but it can get you closer to your recordings for a more enjoyable and immersive listening experience and mitigates some of the compromises that are otherwise present in the audio replay chain.

BTW I have my 552 on a Fraim top shelf with wide spacing to the next component below - i haven't found its power supply as sensitive on placement.

Went from 282 to 552nondr. The uplift was huge but not an immediate night and day one. It took several months of incremental improvements to reveal the full benefits,so patience may be needed. What really lifted its performance more recently was going From two 250.2s to two 250drs. An extra 250 dr would be a good move but it will entail snaxo,extra power supply and double cable run.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Yes there is hyperbole spoken on this forum, and in my most humble of opinions some of it is drivel - the 552 is not magic - it doesn't create music - and it cant create something that isn't there - its not night and day from a 252 - yada yada yada - but it can get you closer to your recordings for a more enjoyable and immersive listening experience and mitigates some of the compromises that are otherwise present in the audio replay chain.

Golly Simon. Next you will be suggesting that there is no such thing as inky blackness.....

best

David

or or all those wretched veils that keep getting in the way.....

What you’re saying seems a bit odd to me. I’ve demoed the 552 vs 252 and found the difference huge but I have 300dr. The only area I found the 252 matched the 552 was with the bass, other than that the 252 lacked everything. I didn’t have to mess with the burndies or wait for it to warm up for four days. It was immediate.

I’m with Simon on this one, yes my 552 (non DR) is better but I didnt experience night and day over a 252 dr (non dr may be a different question)

I had loads of issues with my used 552, it had to go back to HQ twice and without the help of my dealer (Basically Sound) I would have struggled to diagnosed the issue - it took my dealer coming over with his 552 to realise mine had an issue and back it went.

It took a good few months to come on song post it’s service 

If it doesn’t sound “right” I would get a second ear on it, ideally a friendly dealer. I would be surprised if a bit of tweaking with cables and rack positioning would address an issue - yes it may squeeze the extra few percent of performance but that doesnt sound like wher you are with it. 

Gary

The NAC552 should sound great regardless of which Naim amp you with it. However, it will put some emphasis on gettting the best from your source and the setup of the system. It’s sensitive to rack and surface too - those solid feet. Make sure it’s pergectly level with no degree of rocking at all. Shims are available to ensure it sits perfectly square. 

Simon, your description of the 552 is very much what I am experiencing.  Certain recordings do sound off, especially if they have been tweaked or compressed in the studio.  However, that is to be expected.  As equipment becomes more revealing, certain over produced recordings reveal their manipulation.  

Simon, I am very surprised that you prefer a 250.2 over a 250DR with your 552.  I have found the 250DR to be an all round better performer than the 250.2, by a wide margin.  Would elaborate on this point?  It seems to suggest that the 552 and 250DR may not be a synergistic match.

BTW I believe we are using the same speakers, SCM 19. 

All, thank you to each for your replies -each very helpful in my assesment of this 552 demo and a very large financial decision

Please don't misinterpret my post that the 552 somehow sounds bad.  It doesn't.  It sounds wonderful, open, extended, detailed, and musical.  It's just that for the extra cost, its not a big step up from the 252 - which is often described as a bit warm and boring.  I have never fully understood those comments, although agree the 252 does not have the same dynamic drive as the 282 with a supercap.  I think the 252 is  also an especially good match for vinyl.  

I have the 252 and the 552 identically racked to be fair to each.  However, this does mean a compromise for each.  I have been working all week,  so not able to spend much time with different setups.  I will dedicate some time this weekend to see if  different racking arrangements help.  My experience, as others have mentioned above, is that racking will make incremental improvement but not alter the overall charter of piece.  Perhaps at the 500 level that no longer holds true?  I am using Isoblue for racking. While maybe not leading edge, I like it's simplicity and small foot print.

Richard, I think I was writing my last post while you were publishing yours.  Thank you for your input.  Always excellent advice.  I will explore different racking options over the weekend and report back my findings.

Chris

I've only skim read the earlier posts, but it may be a lot simpler issue. Filipe suggests warm up period. That's something I would certainly agree with. Even a fully run in NAC552 can take a week or more to reach its true operating performance after it's been switched off in my experience, so it may just be down to how long you've been using it. Four days does not seem that long to me.

I used mine with two 135s for a while and it was fine, so I'd have thought there would be no issue with a 250DR.

BTW just a thought - I assume you have removed the transit screws.

BritishSea posted:

I have found the 250DR to be an all round better performer than the 250.2, by a wide margin.  Would elaborate on this point?  It seems to suggest that the 552 and 250DR may not be a synergistic match.

 

in my system I am happy with the 250.2 - I have never heard it sound better - yes I may prefer the 250DR at some point - but not now - perhaps it goes to show what a superb preamp the 552DR is

Just my tup'orth.

I went from LP12/NDS/555PSDR/282/HiCap/250.2/nSats to the same but with 552DR.  Well worth it.  Of course, I now have a 300DR which is definitely better.  Alas there is no way I can physically fit a 500DR into my (very small) study.  (sigh)

Chris, my view is that the differences between 252 and 552 are simultaneously both subtle and obvious. Hard to describe but easily heard - eventually. I think it’s ideal that you have retained the 252 and can directly compare it with the 552, I’d recommend you don’t try to do any short term a/b comps as this will simply have you listening to HiFi details. Instead listen for an entire 24 hours with one, then the other for the whole of the next day. Don’t even play the same music - just whatever takes your fancy on each night. Switch back and forth 24 hours at a time and I reckon you’ll start to hear which one works best in terms of making the music more communicative for you. If you don’t prefer the 552 (and by some margin given cost)  then send the 552 back and keep your 252. 

What’s your source ? 

Alba1320 posted:

Assuming that the 552 is operating/installed correctly, my advice would be to stop trying to analyse differences in performance, doing A/ B tests etc., and generally 'fiddling' with equipment.

If you have the 552 for while, leave it hooked up, sit back, relax, and listen to some music 'normally' i.e. as you would, day in day out, with your usual system; meaningful, musical differences, if they exist, will become obvious over time, as you listen to different albums/genres, and once the trial is over, and you go back to the 252, the 552's worth (or lack thereof) should be quite apparent.

BTW, what source(s) are you using?

I think this is good advice, at this level if devices are correctly setup, although there are obvious sonic trait differences between the 252DR and the 552DR, the real appreciation of the performance differences come with extended listening of faniliar tracks... you simply almost certainly will be hearing more in a more immersive and captivating  way on the 552,which provides for a more absorbing and usually enjoyable  experience...  the 552 is an incredible device... you simply get closer to the recording... I know it’s a little cliched, but on some live recordings you are effectively there... it can be a very emotional experience... the Johnny Cash San  Quentin prison recording just is simply incredible... and the recording isn’t even of a really high quality..but the 552 transforms you to being an inmate.... the 252 has you as a producer listening to the master.

BUT both the 252 and 552 take quite a lot of finessing on support, cable dressing etc to sound their best... and if I am honest I’d say the 252 is a bit more fussy than the 552 here... in my own experience...

BTW my predominant source is the Hugo with some NAT05 and CDX2

I am not sure I want to be transformed to being an inmate yet. I might stick to the 252 a little bit longer then. 

Chag -

 Indeed... according to my son, my like of Johnny Cash means I probably should be inside.....

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Alba1320 posted:

Assuming that the 552 is operating/installed correctly, my advice would be to stop trying to analyse differences in performance, doing A/ B tests etc., and generally 'fiddling' with equipment.

...........

BUT both the 252 and 552 take quite a lot of finessing on support, cable dressing etc to sound their best... and if I am honest I’d say the 252 is a bit more fussy than the 552 here... in my own experience...

.....

Perhaps the 552 having sprung circuit boards isolates it better making it less fussy.

In connection with Wenger’s Fraim thread the Naim advice in FAQs regarding TTs is that they are better on top of no more than 3 Fraim shelves. Good long spirit levels recommended.

The trouble with testing is you never know the right day in the early stages of demoing. The Naim loan 552DR took 16 days to show its pedigree and it should have been well run in. Testing destroys the enjoyment of music. You will know if the 552 is your thing with a demo if you have it long enough.

Phil

My experience leads me to conclude that there's are often too many variable parameters in play to definitely say that one piece of equipment is better than another. I think generally the rule of 'high cost' equals 'higher performance' is true (in the Naim world anyway) but on occasions this rule can be broken. Sometime it can be, as Simon mentions, poor set-up. Who would argue against a well set-up 52/252 out-performing a poorly set-up 552? I, for sure, would bet on the 52/252.

As I have been going through my own gradual upgrade process I reminded of points in the process where I have questioned traditional logic. I went from 135's with my 52 to a 500/52. Most would say that the 52 should be upgraded first. Personaly, I found the change from (serviced) 135's to a 500 massive. Yet I found the upgrade from 52 to 552 nice but nowhere near as big. Inserting a SL interconnect between the source and pre was an improvement but putting SL leads into the power amp was significantly better. In my old system playing with Lavender cable vs. Hi-line I would often end up preferring the slightly raw Lavender presentation even though the Hi-line revealed more detail - don't ask me why?

What I do know is that this world of music reproduction we live in is a fickle and fragile environment, often defying traditional logic and personal experience. Ending a reccomendation with the word "my mileage may differ" has never been more true!