Cheating Cricketers

crackie posted:

Mostly agree. But lets be honest here, it's been going on since WG Grace's day. What these three are guilty of (in addition to the charge of ball tampering) are being the most stupid muppets in the history of the game.

With 30+ cameras covering their every move, and then panic set in when it was all over every tv screen in the ground. The extra CA punishment , for me, was for being so incredibly stupid in the first place the think a. They could ever not be seen to do the action and b. Think it would all blow over with a quick sorry at the end of the days play.  

 

I agree with that, Crackie. The stupidity beggars belief. I see the Warner has now held a tear-filled press conference, too. The embarrassment must be particularly acute and I can imagine very many Aussies watching this debacle must be wincing. This is not the image that Aussies like normally project.  

I know sledging is part of international cricket, hopefully delivered with the sprinkling of humour, and I can see this sorry episode, and the behaviour following, providing plenty of material for opposing teams to draw on.     

I have been away and watched this from afar for a while.

I think when caught out the way to deal with a situation is to admit the truth, the whole truth and take full responsibility immediately and boldly.

Beyond the stupidity of the act itself, and the fact is was so obviously and 'ineptly' planned, we have had the rolling admissions and responsibility/punishments. Nobody here emerges with any credit, including cricket Australia. The Aussie press looks pretty virulent too!

Other players and countries have ball tampered or cheated by illegally damaging the pitch in the past. They will probably try to do it again-though not for a while I will warrant!

There is a wider issue here about cricket and behaviour. For a decade or more Australia have deliberately and repeatedly sought to abuse opponents on the pitch, sometimes with obscene and personal insults including of family members. They have shown not lack of discipline, but a purposeful team plan to push the limits of acceptable behaviour supported and condoned by management. They are not alone-others have largely followed but rarely to the same level. NZ remain honourably exempt. In my view this has filtered down to the utterly minor level of club cricket I have played for 30yrs and abuse of players and umpires is now a fact of many games. It comes from young players and older hands, and it was not there when I started playing locally.

I genuinely hope that this does mark a change in philosophy from Australia that others follow, not just regarding active cheating but restoring some of the respect and cutting the abuse that has been so prevalent. Perhaps they can set standards of behaviour in future as at times in the past they have set standards of performance.

I hope Bancroft and Smith emerge from their bans to be good players again, and that they get a decent welcome back to The Ashes here in 2019 if that is possible. They will have served their penance.

As for Warner, it is hard not to detect a widespread dislike of him amongst former and current players and a sense that he has been the bully-in-chief for some time, on and off field. His press conference was cringing in his total failure to answer questions and it left me wondering that if he perceives he is being hung out to dry with all this he may 'go nuclear' and lift the lid on all sorts of previous shenanigans. Might be amusing. Whatever he seems a man with serious demons to me.

Anyway 'my' season starts in 3 week or so. I need to get my kit out from the bag still redolent with the scent of last summer. Boots, bat, gloves, pads, sandpaper etc...

Bruce

100% agree Bruce. I hold the Kiwi team in very, very high regard in that they punch extremly well above their weight in international cricket and do so with the most solid integrity. 

Australian cricket is a joke in comparison. The whole CA Board and CEO need a clean out, the coach has resigned, and it beggars belief that he CEO thinks he can still remain in charge after this. 

individuals have not told the truth for decades /out/not out.   but this is different the captain ,vice captain, and the bowler had planned it    3 out of 11.   the ban should have been longer . and the crocodile tears was the last straw .  

Mate, do you know what the offical penalty by ICC for this was ? It is:

Smith - 1 match ban

Bancroft - carry over points and no ban

Warner - nothing

The knee jerk CA ban is in addition to the ICC penalty. Any other country would most likely challenged  that ICC ban, and on current form, would have won any appeal.

Not saying CA should have done nothing - we need to send a message, but the ban imposed by them in my opinion is excessive - considering the ICC penalty - or ICC weak penalty as I see it. The penalty for slow overrate is more than ball tampering, go figure ...........

For me somewhere in between would have been fair say 6m match ban and 2 year ban on any leadership role.

crackie posted:

Mate, do you know what the offical penalty by ICC for this was ? It is:

Smith - 1 match ban

Bancroft - carry over points and no ban

Warner - nothing

The knee jerk CA ban is in addition to the ICC penalty. Any other country would most likely challenged  that ICC ban, and on current form, would have won any appeal.

Not saying CA should have done nothing - we need to send a message, but the ban imposed by them in my opinion is excessive - considering the ICC penalty - or ICC weak penalty as I see it. The penalty for slow overrate is more than ball tampering, go figure ...........

For me somewhere in between would have been fair say 6m match ban and 2 year ban on any leadership role.

For me, the bans should simply be for life. Lots and lots of keen cricketers who would do a better job of representing their country. The cheating grubs can get real jobs.

David Warner using his own child as a barricade between himself and the press at the airport was cowardly.

winkyincanada posted:

crackie posted:

Mate, do you know what the offical penalty by ICC for this was ? It is:

Smith - 1 match ban

Bancroft - carry over points and no ban

Warner - nothing

The knee jerk CA ban is in addition to the ICC penalty. Any other country would most likely challenged  that ICC ban, and on current form, would have won any appeal.

Not saying CA should have done nothing - we need to send a message, but the ban imposed by them in my opinion is excessive - considering the ICC penalty - or ICC weak penalty as I see it. The penalty for slow overrate is more than ball tampering, go figure ...........

For me somewhere in between would have been fair say 6m match ban and 2 year ban on any leadership role.

For me, the bans should simply be for life. Lots and lots of keen cricketers who would do a better job of representing their country. The cheating grubs can get real jobs.

The “Rules or Code of Conduct” need to be clear. The punishment for breaking the various rules etc needs to be clear. The punishment needs to be implemented consistently and openly. No exceptions.

audio1946 posted:

individuals have not told the truth for decades /out/not out.   but this is different the captain ,vice captain, and the bowler had planned it    3 out of 11.   the ban should have been longer . and the crocodile tears was the last straw .  

3 out of 11 have taken the can but I believe that the fast bowlers, who would be the beneficiaries of the swinging ball, would also be in on it.

I also think that the Aussies had been using this or a similar method of roughing the ball for some time given their ability to swing the ball earlier than any other team.

Ray

It’s very easy to be judgemental.

Unfortunately  pushing the boundaries of fair play is a given in most sports,  you only have to look at the state of Athletics... you get nothing for losing but the rewards for winning are off the scale.

Their only real crime is stupidity....as has been mentioned.

Its not to dissimilar to a football player that dives, it’s cheating, at best they might get a 3 game ban but more often than that they just get a booking ....

I think a little perspective is necessary... the mere fact that everyone will now refer to them as a cheat and their reputation is in tatters,  is possibly punishment enough...

Wenger2015,

Actually it really is quite dissimilar to a diving footballer as this is an act which occurs in the heat of the moment and is perpetrated by an individual.

The Aussies cheating involved premeditation and collaboration thus drawing a more servere punishment.

Ray

thebigfredc posted:

Wenger2015,

Actually it really is quite dissimilar to a diving footballer as this is an act which occurs in the heat of the moment and is perpetrated by an individual.

The Aussies cheating involved premeditation and collaboration thus drawing a more servere punishment.

Ray

I will respectfully disagree, I think footballers know exactly what they are doing, possibly part of the team tactics, and to be fair it’s quite understandable if the team lose three or four games in a row the media call for the manager to be sacked or player to be dropped, the supporters often have selective memories, a dive is fine if it’s for your team?

Sadly, Cheating is part and parcel of most sport... it certainly doesn’t make it right of course??

still think individual cheats  are not the same as plotting a team plan ,3 have been identified but I'm guess more knew.  Anderson knows alittle about  aswinging ball and he said he was amazed that they swung the ball in conditions that  normally doesn't.   have they done it before.   it looks like it was a team plan.....

I was speaking to a gentleman in his 70's or 80's on the train and he put it very well I think he said that the general public pay to watch sport wether or not that is on tv or live at an event they pay to watch very talented teams and individuals to pitch themselves against each other and to see the best person or team on the day win because they outplayed or out fought the opposition not  by cheating.

And to those Australian cricketers there is a responsibility as role models that comes with the fame, the riches and the adulation and that does not involve cheating.  if you do decide to cheat and get caught do not sit blubbering like babies infront of the cameras trying to evoke sympathy, take your punishment on the chin.

Incidentally well done to NZ for battling out a draw, and securing the series win.

In 7 winter Test matches England have only bowled a side out once. Not just the batting that needs review.

Bruce

And the Aussies truly trounced in the final test against South Africa. Not a happy tour for them. 

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Incidentally well done to NZ for battling out a draw, and securing the series win.

In 7 winter Test matches England have only bowled a side out once. Not just the batting that needs review.

Bruce

Yes we can't bat, can't bowl and can't field.

Time for the selectors to unearth a new Messiah (and I don't mean Stokes).

Went to the final day of the test today. Enjoyed it, either side could have won and tense at times. Sat near the Barmy Army, who were in fine voice and with a song for each England bowler. Even did a couple of songs about cheating. Witty lyrics and fun when the crowd joined in. Good crowd for a working day.

Thanks for the report Komet.

I presume you are Kiwi, and if so, congrats on a nice series win. Good to see the tail digging in rather than going out to bat thinking they are Viv Richards.

Ray

thebigfredc posted:

Time for the selectors to unearth a new Messiah.

Unlike the Australians who only find very naught boys!  :-)