4.6 update and upgrade sound quality ?

Well it took me best part of 3 days faffing around to get the blessed 4.6 updated on my NDS. Was it worth it. Damn right it was!

I listened to Meet Me In London hi res album by Antonio Forcione and Sabine Scuibba and I could hear immediately more separation without sacficing cohesion of the performance, greater bass extension but with more definition and greater detail. This made for a more relaxing listen even though I could hear more going on in the mix, something I have been chasing for a long time.

I then thought I would give a real test to this new-fangled firmware and see how good it really is. I give you Currency of Man by the lovely Melody Gardot. This is a tricky album for any system to make sense of and I always felt that my system struggled with the complexities and the occasional dense mix in this wonderful piece of work. All I can say, and I use the word advisedly, is blimey!

So much air around instruments and vocals, more intellibility with vocals and individual musical lines, greater depth and detail, just a far more rewarding listen and a greater understanding of each track.

I am in danger of appearing to be going over the top with my impression of this free upgrade, but I am still listening to Melody and her wonderful backing band (and orchestra at the moment) and I am very, very impressed. For a bit of software to be able to really get to grips with such a demanding piece of music is quite remarkable. I now feel I am listening in to the music.

Right, now I will prepare for a potential flaming. This firmware upgrade is akin to a black box upgrade, on my NDS (and 555PS), to these ears, in my room, with my system. There, I have said it. So all that is left is to congratulate both Naim and the beta testers. This upgrade is well worth the wait and the agro of installation.

My mother always told me, good things come to those who wait. All I would say to those who are still struggling with the update is persevere or take your streamer to your dealer to get this superb free upgrade.

Update, just listening to Sean Rowe - New Lore. Double blimey!

Glad you got there in the end, Nigel. I'm glad you're enjoying it so much too.

Thanks for your review, Nigel. I also found that vocals in particular benefited from the new DSP code in that the vocalist's inflections/expressions were better defined which made them so much easier to follow and understand.

Sjbabbey, totally agree and I was just thinking I probably didn't say enough about the uplift in vocals with 4.6. I have only heard Sabina Sciubba, Malody Gardot and Sean Rowe with the new firmware. Clearer tone and greater texture to vocals and those subtle inflexions are easier to hear and add so much to the emotional connection. Oh and lyrics are now crystal clear.

Congrats on finally getting it sorted, nigelb - well done!  So glad to hear you’re happy with the sound.

Regards,

Evan

Evan, writing my review made me feel for those such as yourself still unable to update to 4.6. All I would say is press Naim for a solution and don't give up. This thing is too good (and free) to pass over. If all else fails, can you get to a dealer where you are to have them perform update for you?

Thank you for the Melody Gardo introduction Nigel, what a beautiful album, stunning.

It seems the update is slightly different for everyone, for me it’s mainly been soundstage and vocals followed by clarity and bass, until now vocals were the  one thing I missed from my old 82 (over my 272) but it sounds better now than I could ever have thought possible with Just a system update. It’s quite amazing just what a step up a SW update can make. My guess is the choice of speakers will highlight different aspects of the update so we will all experience slightly differing focuses. 

Thanks again, what a brilliant album.

bobbyrab1 posted:

Thank you for the Melody Gardo introduction Nigel, what a beautiful album, stunning.

It seems the update is slightly different for everyone, for me it’s mainly been soundstage and vocals followed by clarity and bass, until now vocals were the  one thing I missed from my old 82 (over my 272) but it sounds better now than I could ever have thought possible with Just a system update. It’s quite amazing just what a step up a SW update can make. My guess is the choice of speakers will highlight different aspects of the update so we will all experience slightly differing focuses. 

Thanks again, what a brilliant album.

You are welcome, Bobby. You might also like the Sean Rowe - New Lore album I mention. in fact, if you don't already do so, I would urge you to visit the 'What Are You Listening To And Why Might Anybody Be Interested' thread in the Music Room on here. Loads of great music posted there.

We all need great music to listen to on our revitalised streamers, right?

Sorry for the diversion.

I finally succeeded!  i had difficulties with the usb driver.  Normally, when i download something, it stays on the screen and i have just to follow messages like open, agree, execute ....etc.  But here the download disappeared and i had to find it in my computer.  Yes, some will laugh, but i am not very computer man.  I prefer ipad by a great margin.  On my work it is my weak point, i know.  

So now the sound with my nds:   more free flowing, analog like,  but the differences are minimal.  

Thanks for the help and support, specially Mike and Sjbabbey and David.  Thanks for some other members too.

I think it is a weak point of naim audio here, because this update is not very friendly to do.  I read that many members had difficulties, or had to carry their streamer upstairs, or buy the appropriate cable, or had difficulties to install the usb driver like me.

French Rooster posted:

I finally succeeded!

Super fantastique,     I have both happy feelings & sympathy for you.    Even if you are not a computer man,  you had the confidence to at least go do it.  It should not have been so difficult & naim really need to look into this.

Please remember that when we bought these "legacy" streamers we knew updates were via a USB cable. Some dealers do these for free. This time we are given the option to undertake it ourselves, if we want to, and we must take note of the "Please read and follow these instructions". Otherwise proceed as before - talk to your dealer.

The DIY option has always been there,  its never been "this time".   

Mike-B posted:

French Rooster posted:

I finally succeeded!

Super fantastique,     I have both happy feelings & sympathy for you.    Even if you are not a computer man,  you had the confidence to at least go do it.  It should not have been so difficult & naim really need to look into this.

thanks very much Mike for your help. Hopefully i succeeded but i agree it was not easy. I was reading another thread “ installing usb driver on osx “ and read that some members had also difficulties.  My dealer doesn’t know how to do it, so i was even ready to go to a pc shop in my street and pay the shop to install me the usb driver.

Naim must find something easier in the future in order to install the updates.  For computer people it is easy, but we are not all computer men....

I can't disagree M.Coq,  problem is I suspect there is no other way with the 'legacy' products hardware.  But I must say based on & comparing what I've read of other Naim forum users who reported in the past, I do not think its ever been so difficult as we have with 4.6.  Personality, with 4.6,  I had zero problems & nothing  different to how its uploaded & installed in the past; but something is obviously not correct & its up to Naim to fix it.  The legacy products might still need a USB driver & cable(s) but once the connections are made,  it should just be a process of pressing 'Start' & the let the install software complete the process.

I have never had the problems I encountered this time with 4.6 in the many updates I have successfully performed in the past. There is something complicating things this time around and all I can think is that the newer operating systems on our home computers possibly combined with other software not previously installed has compatibility issues with the installation of the SiLabs driver.

I guess this will be the last manual update of the legacy machines, with the new streamers being updated OTA.

Yes Mike, i think the 4.4 was easier to install.  But i had a different laptop and the usb driver was very easy to install . I bought this cable for the 4.4 update and when i connected the cable it was detected and i had just to follow what was on the screen ( to install the driver).

The future streamers, ndx2 and nd555 will have different updates process?

I have an older Uniti with no 192 Khz board and according to the instructions, 4.6 update cannot be installed on it. Still, has anyone tried to do it?

What would happen if you do try? Would software just  close or you might continue and get yourself into a trouble?

If Naim says don't do it, then don't do it! Nothing good could come of it.

best

David

Interesting thing has emerged in another thread. If you are on a version earlier than 4.4, like 4.3 for example, and do this 4.6 upgrade without doing 4.4 first, you don't get the option of Tidal in the list of inputs. A factory reset after the firmware update doesn't help. You have to roll back to 4.4 and then do 4.6 again.

Presumably Naim didn't test the 4.6 upgrade jumping over 4.4 and anyone who is interested in Tidal will have been on 4.4, but for someone buying a second-hand or ex-demo unit that hasn't been updated to 4.4 before 4.6, it could be a major pain. I have reported in the beta forum.

best

David

Mike-B posted:

The DIY option has always been there,  its never been "this time".   

Quite right.

The process is easy. Maybe a bit daunting the first time, but straightforward. 

Unless it doesn't work. Which it doesn't for me under Win10. Luckily my old legacy Win7 machine can accomplish the task with it's obsolete OS and dust covered drivers.

I'm not devoting any more than the day I have already spent trying every way anyone can think of to make it work. I don't work for Naim.

They'll crack it. 

The fundamental problem is that the Silicon Laboratories CP210x chips don't respond on the USB with the full set of PnP identity data.  As a result the USB Bus Enumerators can't uniquely identify these devices and so the OS can't automatically install the drivers as normal.  When you combine this with the necessity to install the drivers before connecting to the device, there is a recipe for people to get things wrong.

This style of driver writing was the most common approach in the 1980s and 1990s; but with USB PnP, it's becoming rarer and so people forget the paradigm of the older devices.

Huge posted:

The fundamental problem is that the Silicon Laboratories CP210x chips don't respond on the USB with the full set of PnP identity data.  As a result the USB Bus Enumerators can't uniquely identify these devices and so the OS can't automatically install the drivers as normal.  When you combine this with the necessity to install the drivers before connecting to the device, there is a recipe for people to get things wrong.

This style of driver writing was the most common approach in the 1980s and 1990s; but with USB PnP, it's becoming rarer and so people forget the paradigm of the older devices.

But why then have I had no problems updating before (e.g. 4.4 update was straightforward) and have had real issues with 4.6 updating. Same NDS, same iMac, same process.

Did you use the same driver?
Has the Version of OSX (minor or Major) changed?

Jonn posted:

ken c posted:

I did my 4.6 update last Friday and as I reported then, this was quite straight fwd but I didn't have much time to listen properly then.

I managed to do this last night,

I am afraid for me it is definitely not good news. Yes, I can hear more -- but music lines just sound 'louder' to me -- the whole mix lacks subtlety and sounds somewhat 'un-balanced'. It all sounds somewhat more 'animated' and to me, the music seems to have been robbed of its emotion and warmth. Music which prior to the update would relax me now makes me anxious and the whole thing has completely lost 'that which makes me want to play it'. Yes, I can definitely hear more bass -- but it sounds completely wrong and it sounds somewhat out of time and out of tune to me -- in fact I sense 'timing' is now somewhat compromised.

This is all very surprising to me as I have never experienced what to me is a very in-naim like sound in an upgrade. And I find it very hard to believe Naim would release such an 'upgrade'.

Since some people with NDS like the upgrade -- then 2 possibilities -- (a) this is a new direction for naim streamers which I just happen not to like -- tough cheese I guess  (b) there is something wrong with my streamer (I would say this is unlikely as it sounded absolutely sublime before the upgrade)

Now a question for you learned forum members -- is it possible to roll-back this upgrade back to 4.4 and leave absolutely no trace of what to me has been a disastrous 4.6 upgrade? I hope and pray this is possible so I can have my music back... This is all very distressing to me...

many thanks

enjoy...

ken

Ken

I had the same experience (see earlier post). However I did a full factory reset, checked all the inputs and restarted. The NDS sounds fine now, much like what other people are describing following the change to 4.6. So worth doing this before reverting to 4.4.

Thought this was worth sharing. I was hearing the same weird presentation as Ken C after the update on my NDS. There was just too much bass, both vocals and instruments were overly warm, it all sounded nice but just not as engaging as with 4.4 and definitely not a presentation I could live with. So I Just followed John's advice and did a factory reset, system still sounds different but in a far more positive way than before, the difference is definitely more subtle and the balance is back. I'd suggest if you're not happy with the sound after the update, the first thing to try would be a factory reset, it's definitely worked for me.

loks posted:

Jonn posted:

ken c posted:

I did my 4.6 update last Friday and as I reported then, this was quite straight fwd but I didn't have much time to listen properly then.

I managed to do this last night,

I am afraid for me it is definitely not good news. Yes, I can hear more -- but music lines just sound 'louder' to me -- the whole mix lacks subtlety and sounds somewhat 'un-balanced'. It all sounds somewhat more 'animated' and to me, the music seems to have been robbed of its emotion and warmth. Music which prior to the update would relax me now makes me anxious and the whole thing has completely lost 'that which makes me want to play it'. Yes, I can definitely hear more bass -- but it sounds completely wrong and it sounds somewhat out of time and out of tune to me -- in fact I sense 'timing' is now somewhat compromised.

This is all very surprising to me as I have never experienced what to me is a very in-naim like sound in an upgrade. And I find it very hard to believe Naim would release such an 'upgrade'.

Since some people with NDS like the upgrade -- then 2 possibilities -- (a) this is a new direction for naim streamers which I just happen not to like -- tough cheese I guess  (b) there is something wrong with my streamer (I would say this is unlikely as it sounded absolutely sublime before the upgrade)

Now a question for you learned forum members -- is it possible to roll-back this upgrade back to 4.4 and leave absolutely no trace of what to me has been a disastrous 4.6 upgrade? I hope and pray this is possible so I can have my music back... This is all very distressing to me...

many thanks

enjoy...

ken

Ken

I had the same experience (see earlier post). However I did a full factory reset, checked all the inputs and restarted. The NDS sounds fine now, much like what other people are describing following the change to 4.6. So worth doing this before reverting to 4.4.

Thought this was worth sharing. I was hearing the same weird presentation as Ken C after the update on my NDS. There was just too much bass, both vocals and instruments were overly warm, it all sounded nice but just not as engaging as with 4.4 and definitely not a presentation I could live with. So I Just followed John's advice and did a factory reset, system still sounds different but in a far more positive way than before, the difference is definitely more subtle and the balance is back. I'd suggest if you're not happy with the sound after the update, the first thing to try would be a factory reset, it's definitely worked for me.

PS: Thank you John, Naim and the beta testers, update is sounding great now!