4.6 update and upgrade sound quality ?

Hi Claus,  the f/w changes are applied to the ND5,    it makes no difference if it has an internal or external DAC,  the changes (improvements) are the same,  

I've been impressed with the update on 272/555 across all inputs feeds I use.

Previously listening to the same track via a ripped CD on my Zen Vortex box & TIDAL, was pretty close sometimes rip seemed more musical sometimes Tidal depending on the track.    Now Tidal is the preferred option, so I only assume the management of the tidal stream has improved. Certainly seems rock solid with no drop outs so far.

Internet radio feed also seems to have improved in many ways .  Although the pita of the BBC hd channel dropping out and locking up for minutes still remains 

Happy with our simple two box system...

Thanks Mike,
So even if I don't use the DAC inside the ND5XS the new f/w will still be an improvement (well, according to most people here at least). 

Guess I'll give it a go then, when I have a few hours with nothing else to do. 

Claus

Evan Scheele posted:

Addendum:  much more presence on all vocals and instruments as well as much sharper transients (in a good, naim way) is my perspective so far.

Cheers!

Evan, this describes very well what I am hearing from my NDS post 4.6 update (and factory reset).

PianoBasher posted:

 

Has anybody tried doing a factory reset outside of a f/w upgrade and noticed any effect upon sound quality?

Yes and no. NDS.

Claus posted:

Thanks Mike,
So even if I don't use the DAC inside the ND5XS the new f/w will still be an improvement (well, according to most people here at least). 

Guess I'll give it a go then, when I have a few hours with nothing else to do. 

Claus

I would agree with Mike: the changes that may affect sound quality are, if I understand correctly, in the DSP, which is between the streamer module and the DAC, so I would expect these still to be audible when using an off board DAC. 

Memory might be playing tricks on me. I thought the screen message states "Updating DAC DSP". 

Yep! 

My understanding is that the DSP is part of the DAC's 'reconstruction filter' and oversampling system.  As such the S/Pdif output will be taken from before the DSP (to allow an external DAC to use it's own oversampling and digital filtering scheme).

However the improvements to the multi-room operation have most probably involved improvements to the efficiency of the network control logic and the better timing and flow control resulting from this will still yield sonic benefits.

Maybe the streamers are not all the same in this respect, but my understanding is that the NDX SPDIF output is taken from the DSP, so might be affected by any changes to it. Perhaps it's not quite that simple?

Yes, it is entirely conceivable that the DSP chip is used to run multiple different processes that can be used to process data at different points in the data flow.  The AD SHARC has a complex and very capable architecture.

Hi everyone,

Not been here for a while, but I thought I might as well chime in on this particular subject as I updated my NDS a couple of days ago.

For me, this is a very significant sonic upgrade. Going from 3.x to 4.x was a massive jump as the noise floor was dramatically lowered, and this new version is, to me, of a comparable magnitude in this regard. (How did they manage to further reduce the noise with "just" a few lines of code ??? Say what you will about the state of Naim software development, but at least some of them bloody well know what they are doing.)

Comparatively, I had found the 4.4 version, though wonderful, a little too laid-back for my taste and I'm delighted with the returning bass, even deeper and more controlled, and the slightly more "in your face" lead vocals and instruments (we're talking subtleties here). The soundstage is even wider and the interplay in complex pieces is fantastic, with secondary lines and background choruses very easy to follow. And every instrument has a proper detailed texture now (well, depending on the recording of course), even electronic ones if that makes any sense.

I feel sorry for those who had a bad experience with this update. It may well be that it fits my system and room acoustics particularly well.

One thing puzzles me however: the update went flawlessly and displayed successively the "Firmware upgrade", "DSPDAC Update" and "Streamer Update" stages, and I performed the recommended factory reset; but although the settings now show the expected 4.6.00 firmware version number (Western Europe), the DSP Version and DSP Boot Version numbers are the same as before. Does anyone now why ? Are these hardware related ? Not that it really matters to my ears, but just to ascertain that everything went as expected.

Anyway, a heartfelt thank you to the engineers at Naim for this release, and to all the beta testers for their collective help in achieving this stunning result. I bet the ND555 will be something to behold ...in 2–3 years...!  

A nice day to all from a very happy bunny !

Moomoo, an excellent description of the uplift I am enjoying from 4.6 on my NDS.

Yes, I too feel for those that are not getting (or possibly not appreciating) the the change in sonic balance. What you describe as more in your face and I would describe as more detail and air, others might be hearing as a harder, more etched presentation which might not suit their listening room, speakers or taste. The added bass with 4.6, even though much better controlled and with greater clarity (IMHO), might also be causing others issues with room acoustics and speakers or speaker positioning.

However, I can only speculate about what might be causing the disparity over opinions of 4.6.

ChrisR_EPL posted:

My ND5XS seems to have lost a bit of ooomph unless it's turned up a lot more. Anyone else noticed it?

I posted this (on p2) after doing the upgrade and the FR. Happy to report that it's restored the joy that had gone awol from my set-up, even in the smaller room that the gear lives in now. The space clarity and detail in 4.6 is a huge improvement, instruments sound more lifelike and the bass is so much better. In the original [bigger] room bass was always a bit too in yer face at higher volumes, in the smaller room I'm using these days it was almost unbearable; it's now superb even at neighbour-bothering volumes. Much better control of the bass, better mid & top, with much more realism. Currently working through Radio K.A.O.S, it's like hearing it again for the first time.

ND5XS > 5i > PMC Twenty.23

Dady posted:

I'm going to ask the question again, sorry if anyone responded that I may have missed, but, is there anybody out there with a Uniti 2 that has done the 4.6 and found it worthwhile in terms of SQ?

David

I did my Uniti 2 upgrade from 4.4 to 4.6 earlier this week, followed by the recommended factory reset. I’d be hard pressed to tell any SQ difference really. I’m not even sure that there is intended to be a difference on the Uniti 2, since the DSP line didn’t flag as upgraded although other aspects of the upgrade were flagged up by the software as it proceeded. 

If there is a difference in SQ it’s very subtle. I’ve tried with iRadio and UPNP sources from simple female vocals with piano up to heavy Mahlerian orchestral. Maybe there is slightly more transparency in what is already a very transparent system. The essence of Naim it seems to me is that it allows you to hear just what the recording engineer intended, without any extra colouration. Perhaps that neutrality has become even more enhanced with the upgrade.  Or perhaps not!  I suspect for those of us with “entry level” systems like Uniti 2 there is not a lot of perceptible change. It would be interesting to get some more feedback from the lower end of the spectrum.

Andrew

Andrew Lea posted:

Dady posted:

I'm going to ask the question again, sorry if anyone responded that I may have missed, but, is there anybody out there with a Uniti 2 that has done the 4.6 and found it worthwhile in terms of SQ?

David

I did my Uniti 2 upgrade from 4.4 to 4.6 earlier this week, followed by the recommended factory reset. I’d be hard pressed to tell any SQ difference really. I’m not even sure that there is intended to be a difference on the Uniti 2, since the DSP line didn’t flag as upgraded although other aspects of the upgrade were flagged up by the software as it proceeded. 

If there is a difference in SQ it’s very subtle. I’ve tried with iRadio and UPNP sources from simple female vocals with piano up to heavy Mahlerian orchestral. Maybe there is slightly more transparency in what is already a very transparent system. The essence of Naim it seems to me is that it allows you to hear just what the recording engineer intended, without any extra colouration. Perhaps that neutrality has become even more enhanced with the upgrade.  Or perhaps not!  I suspect for those of us with “entry level” systems like Uniti 2 there is not a lot of perceptible change. It would be interesting to get some more feedback from the lower end of the spectrum.

Andrew

I've also updated my Uniti2 and did the factory reset after having listened to it for a short while, but not any serious music listening. Didn't notice any sonic changes with the reset but it did remind me that I'd recently had an FM/DAB aerial installed and hadn't rescanned the DAB or FM channels, so I now have lots of new Channels...

What I have noticed is that I need to turn the sound up a bit more for the same volume I'd had before; that bass seems a little more extended and that everything seems a little 'cleaner; and more 'separated'. What I'm not sure yet is whether I think this sounds 'better' and I won't know until I've had a chance to listen to some music properly.

What I am sure about is that it sounds different.

Listening to dire straights Money for Nothing and bass definitely deeper and can be felt more on 4.6 with 272, 250dr, Ovator 400s. Well pleased.

Listening to the new Cult CD rip - Hidden City.  Great recording, they can still rock, I think there has definitely been an improvement to the SQ of my 272.   With regard to the band, though, I think that Ian Astbury's voice lacks the edge & raw power it once had in spades.  Sort of sounds like somebody's grandfather is singing karaoke to the Cult.  I'm waiting to hear the sound of false teeth hitting the studio floor soon.

I took my laptop in today to get a new hard drive put in,the old one was fried.They are installing windows 7 at my request,and they said they can transfer my existing data to the new drive.I had the drivers on it previously for the last update,but I have no idea if they will still be there.I looked at the Silabs list of drivers,and there appears to be 2 choices...does it matter which one I use?It is under V 6.7.5 for the 272,correct?...the one that says default in brackets.After I download this,I assume I then plug in the USB at the back and follow the directions,sound right?...I am nervous that I might screw it up.

No quarter posted:

I took my laptop in today to get a new hard drive put in,the old one was fried.They are installing windows 7 at my request,and they said they can transfer my existing data to the new drive.I had the drivers on it previously for the last update,but I have no idea if they will still be there.I looked at the Silabs list of drivers,and there appears to be 2 choices...does it matter which one I use?It is under V 6.7.5 for the 272,correct?...the one that says default in brackets.After I download this,I assume I then plug in the USB at the back and follow the directions,sound right?...I am nervous that I might screw it up.

You are correct indeed. Extract v 6.7.5, confirm your port number and follow the instructions.

G

GraemeH posted:

No quarter posted:

I took my laptop in today to get a new hard drive put in,the old one was fried.They are installing windows 7 at my request,and they said they can transfer my existing data to the new drive.I had the drivers on it previously for the last update,but I have no idea if they will still be there.I looked at the Silabs list of drivers,and there appears to be 2 choices...does it matter which one I use?It is under V 6.7.5 for the 272,correct?...the one that says default in brackets.After I download this,I assume I then plug in the USB at the back and follow the directions,sound right?...I am nervous that I might screw it up.

You are correct indeed. Extract v 6.7.5, confirm your port number and follow the instructions.

G

Tha main additional thing to watch is that the USB lead has to be a fully connected one and not something that came with a mobile phone charger because that will only have the dc contacts connected and won't work for this purpose.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

GraemeH posted:

No quarter posted:

I took my laptop in today to get a new hard drive put in,the old one was fried.They are installing windows 7 at my request,and they said they can transfer my existing data to the new drive.I had the drivers on it previously for the last update,but I have no idea if they will still be there.I looked at the Silabs list of drivers,and there appears to be 2 choices...does it matter which one I use?It is under V 6.7.5 for the 272,correct?...the one that says default in brackets.After I download this,I assume I then plug in the USB at the back and follow the directions,sound right?...I am nervous that I might screw it up.

You are correct indeed. Extract v 6.7.5, confirm your port number and follow the instructions.

G

Tha main additional thing to watch is that the USB lead has to be a fully connected one and not something that came with a mobile phone charger because that will only have the dc contacts connected and won't work for this purpose.

best

David

I have a cable that came with my cannon camera,hoping that one works?I use it to transfer photos and videos to my laptop.What does GRAEMH mean when he says confirm the port number?I assume once it is downloaded,I double click it to open it up,then proceed?

Yes the cable that came with a camera will be fine.

what he means is that you need to know the port number that the driver is assigned to, But in practice there will only be one or two showing up in the Naim updater drop down list and you can just try both and see which works. The one that doesn't work will just give you a message when you go to the next stage which tries to communicate with the Naim product that the updater can't see the product, so you go back a step, choose the other port and try again. On my Windows 7 pc, the driver runs on port 4 but there is a port 3 showing that is something else so that doesn't work. The correct port won't show up in the drop down list until the Naim unit is connected to the PC with your cable by the way.

On installing the driver, you download it to your PC (eg into download or on the desktop) and run it from there because it's a package and you have to choose the executable which is in the package along with release notes etc. I haven't done this for years literally but the main point is you can't install it directly off the website. It's all pretty obvious when you get to it.

Also you can't "brick" the unit even if it all goes wrong. In that instance you might need to get a dealer or another forum member to run their updater again, but the basic boot loader in the Naim product isn't modified by the updater, so in all circumstances the updater can always start again.

best

David

Thanks David,very helpful again.It will be Saturday morning before I get it updated,I imagine...but I am hoping for the best,it seems as though the 272 owners are the happiest out of all the streamer models.I really want to get this done before my Superlumina cables arrive.

Sounds as though nDAC will not be updated at some time because it is not a network device, even though the change affects the same DSP.

Phil