4.6 update and upgrade sound quality ?

I think Robiwan’s review is fair though I much prefer the update. My system can be a little bright and detail is plentiful. I’ve lost a little warmth for significant improvements to staging and separation. As per all Naim stuff, some recordings are stunning and others thin. Angus and Julia Stone is sublime. 

Laurie Griffiths posted:

As per all Naim stuff, some recordings are stunning and others thin. Angus and Julia Stone is sublime. 

That is true even with the 4.4 version. But overall for me i prefer 4.4 which also sounded more like the CD5si and turntable.

272/XPSDR really showing its 4.6 chops tonight. Listening to Billy Joel ‘52nd Street’ (a first pressing of the first commercially available CD) and the depth, layering and detail are there like never before. The subtle ‘tch, tch, tch’ through ‘My Life’ really helps drive the song along...I honestly hadn’t noticed it before.

Less than stellar recordings are really coming up trumps with the new firmware. Loving it!

G

Interesting that no one appears to be sitting on the fence with 4.4 vs 4.6. The two firmware versions appear to divide opinion, admittedly in favour of 4.6, but opinion is indeed significantly divided.

I wonder what is going on! It does appear that the division is apparent on NDS but we probably don't have enough feedback to ascertain if the divergence of opinion is product related.

4.6 definitely brings most tracks into sharper perspective which to me is probably closer to the 'truth', but some may appreciate the softer, smoother presentation, but I would characterise this kind of presentation as slight sugar-coating.

Yes, on some recordings 4.6 is a tougher listen, but it is closer to real voices and real instruments IMHO. But I cannot ignore those that have a very different view, many of whom's opinion I respect. I suspect the difference in opinion over 4.4 vs 4.6 could well be system and, in particularly speaker (and speaker positioning), dependent.

With so many choosing to revert back to 4.4, further investigation is surely warranted. Personally I love what 4.6 has brought to the presentation of music from my system. I therefore find it difficult to understand why others hold an opposite view. But I respect those opposing views and there must be some contributory factors causing such a disparity. It would be interesting to explore those factors and get to the bottom of this.

I would suggest such knowledge would be vital to Naim in future firmware developments.

Would that divided opinion, while more apparent for NDS than for any other player, depend on the type of music being played? I am 80% classical, more instrumental and chamber than concerting, 20% Jazz, bebop as much as free. On what side of the fence would that sit me? ????

Chag -

i listen mostly to modern jazz, some pop or blues sometimes, funk too.  I found the update positive for me:  a bit more articulated sound, easy going, with sharper relief too.  The rhythm is easier to follow also.

Chag:  i recommend you to test this update.  It is impossible to guess what it will give in your system.  If you don’t like it, it is easy to install the 4.4 again.

I’m firmly with 4.6.  Maybe still influenced by Leinster’s win on Saturday, but I don’t think I have heard better in my room. Roll on ND555!

4.6 for me. Love how it unravels complex material. The soul remains. Lifelike and involving. Thanks Naim. NDX/XPSDR/252/250DR/S400

Done, Rooster! Large change in SQ presentation indeed and just as many have reported. Will spend time listening to it during the long weekend coming and let sink it in over. Exciting times on all accounts in Salisbury these days. Thank you for making us all part of it. ????

Chag -

I have done more listenings mostly over tidal and my usb stick and details continue to surprise me. Little voice tremolo that I never noticed, all that with sharper imaging et better depth. At one moment I even got images one in front of another. I never had that kind of layered imaging before. 

For me the supereuniti has a signature around the upperbass where it sounds thickened and rounded. 4.6 helps with that too. 

Again im very happy. 

Chag... posted:

Done, Rooster! Large change in SQ presentation indeed and just as many have reported. Will spend time listening to it during the long weekend coming and let sink it in over. Exciting times on all accounts in Salisbury these days. Thank you for making us all part of it. 

No need to wait until King’s Day. This appears to be for me a no brainer, it’s a keeper! I would add to what has been rightly reported that timbres have gained texture, richness and even density. I can even hear that note commencement shows greater chiselling or modulating. As for the rest I may only need a few days for my ears to burn in to 4.6. 

This is in fact the other great news, I can hear and realize greater resolution and I will take little time to burn in to it. I have been updated too and for the greater. Thank you Naim.

Chag -

I'd never done a factory reset on my 272 despite multiple f/w upgrades  but, in view of the recent debate, I thought I'd give it a try....

On my system it made no SQ difference at all, I only suffered the minor inconvenience of needing to re-enter my own settings etc.

No doubt it's always best to follow Naim guidelines but, for what it's worth, that was my experience.

Anyway, I'm still loving 4.6

Hi all,

I'd just like to add my note of appreciation for all of the work that must have gone into the new streamer firmware update.

I have an NDX and have spent quite a few hours this weekend listening to the new update. I'm very pleased with the step up it represents in my system to my ears. The rest of the system is a '95 82, '95 supercap, '85 chrome bumper 250 and a pair of '87 mk1 SBLs. All kept in fine fettle courtesy of Darran at Class A, each unit having made a visit across the Pennines to Sheffield within the last 5 years including my trusty old sbls (tweeter units at least) for a tweeter & crossover change.

As you may sense from my eclectic mix, I for one really appreciate naim's philosophy of taking care of customers with the oldest of systems and long may it go on! As with many of the naim upgrades I've had over more years than I care to think about, it adds just a little more magic to an already magical system!

Thanks guys and girls!

Rich.

All I can say is no! no! no!

I have an NDS with two 555dr power supplies and have today updated to version 4.6 and after hours of listening have had to go back to version 4.4.

I tried the factory reset but even though it did improve things a bit it was not enough.

What is going on this is not an improvement it sounds hollow the bass is tighter the lower frequencies are passable but the mid-range is missing. To add insult to injury the upper frequencies are not satisfying.

If this is the way the naim sound is going this will be the end of the line for me. 

I now can not have the other multiroom features unless i have the new sound. You should separate the functional update from the DSP update.

David252 posted:

All I can say is no! no! no!

I have an NDS with two 555dr power supplies and have today updated to version 4.6 and after hours of listening have had to go back to version 4.4.

I tried the factory reset but even though it did improve things a bit it was not enough.

What is going on this is not an improvement it sounds hollow the bass is tighter the lower frequencies are passable but the mid-range is missing. To add insult to injury the upper frequencies are not satisfying.

If this is the way the naim sound is going this will be the end of the line for me. 

I now can not have the other multiroom features unless i have the new sound. You should separate the functional update from the DSP update.

Nothing about your system in your profile. Info about racks and cable dressing also relevant. Strange the way some like it and some don’t! Sometimes better boxes expose setup and rack isolation issues.

Phil

hi David252 -- the first time I installed 4.6 on my NDS/2x555PS-DR, it sounded so horrible that I decided to do it again. Unfortunately no luck 2nd time -- so I went back to 4.4 and was greeted with the good music that I was used to. After a week or so, I decided to try again -- and you can read my report on the other thread '4.6 verdict'. I have absolutely no idea why what I did made any difference -- but it did -- and the 'horribleness' is gone. the sound balance is quite different from 4.4 so I am learning to come to terms with it -- which I can now do because its not nasty any more. Seems to me the 1st 2 attempts affected 'something' negatively -- what/how - I have no idea. Good luck.

enjoy

ken

The rest of my system is 252, 300 power amp , sopra 2, supa lumina interconnects and speaker cable on two stacks of naim fraim.

The cables are dressed correctly and it sound great with 4.4.

The sound balance is definetely different. It just lacks what i like. I listen to my music loud and it sounded very bad loud.

My son came back and asked what was wrong with the HIFI and I had not even told him I had updated the NDS. 

I have heard a lot of hifi over the years and i picked naim because it did not sound like hifi. This update makes it sound like hifi.

I feel that it is not right for the manufacturer to completely change the sonic signature of a piece of equipment with an update as the user picked it for its sonic signiture

I will maybe try again later and see if it improves at least I have 4.4

It's different period (as confirmed by naim a change to the DSP), some like it, some dislike it, some hear no difference. It is a shame we are not given an option and support for the old vs new sound.

For those who don't like it, the cheer leaders will present reasons such as, it's your setup, your network, your USB cable, your download was corrupt, your hearing has an issue, move your speakers - until you submit and convince yourself it's better or learn to live with it. All the time insisting the sound has "improved" yet not "changed".

It is not the sound we bought at demo, it's moving in a new direction (or necessary direction to try and retain the sound within the other changes) and maybe at the next firmware it will change again, then again. I suppose then we don't need to upgrade boxes, maybe just tone controls.

I guess we need to make some statistics by gear model. On the superuniti alone I think its 100% prefer 4.6 by a large margin. If naim collects some data they can then fix a problem if there is one. 'Midrange missing' does not match what the upgrade did on my system. Naim and focal synergy should be near perfect, there might be a 'bug' in the update with the nds.

I think as somebody else has suggested Ken ended up with hybrid installation with the wrong DSP for the 4.6 firmware.

The reason Naim tweak the DSP is that the underlying firmware code that gives the functionality actually interferes in small ways with the way the streamer sounds and changes to the DSP can help to correct or overcome this.  With the wrong version of DSP to match the functionality changes it's anybody's guess what it would sound like but 'horrible' is a potential result.

You would expect the Naim software installed to verify that all phases have installed correctly but maybe something went wrong which Ken was able to correct upon reinstalling the firmware.

For me with an NDX it's all good, the best I have heard the system sounding.  It does seem that it's the NDS that has split opinions.

I am sorry but I think people read comments by other forum members and take them as gospel. I do not think that the changes to the functionality that is stated in the release notes (multiroom) would have such an effect on the sound.

I have writen software for over 20 years and as a developer the coding for the functionality and sound should be separate and I cannot believe would not be.

When you load the new firmware it is obvious that it is split up and programmed in three stages.

I think for the newer machines  (272 etc) the update seems to be well accepted. My NDS is one from 2012 when it was first released and I believe it is probably something to do with older NDS machines. It would be nice to see if there is a correlation between the age and issues.

It would be nice to hear from someone at naim on this subject.

David252 posted:

I am sorry but I think people read comments by other forum members and take them as gospel. I do not think that the changes to the functionality that is stated in the release notes (multiroom) would have such an effect on the sound.

I have writen software for over 20 years and as a developer the coding for the functionality and sound should be separate and I cannot believe would not be.

When you load the new firmware it is obvious that it is split up and programmed in three stages.

I think for the newer machines  (272 etc) the update seems to be well accepted. My NDS is one from 2012 when it was first released and I believe it is probably something to do with older NDS machines. It would be nice to see if there is a correlation between the age and issues.

It would be nice to hear from someone at naim on this subject.

Believe what you like but having gained this information from the person who deisigned the streamers on a recent visit to Naim I’m inclined to take this as true.

My NDS is also from 2012 and I went back to 4.4 after 2 weeks with 4.6.

Sound with 4.6 was more detailed but also tiring and stressing.

Since, I live happy with 4.4 

my setup : NDS, 555PS, 552 DR, 300, Superlumina full loom and Sonus Faber Cremona M

Pyrrhon posted:

I guess we need to make some statistics by gear model. On the superuniti alone I think its 100% prefer 4.6 by a large margin. If naim collects some data they can then fix a problem if there is one. 'Midrange missing' does not match what the upgrade did on my system. Naim and focal synergy should be near perfect, there might be a 'bug' in the update with the nds.

Not quite 100%, old chap. Mine went back to 4.4 after 2 weeks. On my system, at least, the 4.6 upgrade provided unwanted amounts of 'hi-fi'. But you're correct in stating that 100% is a large margin.

I found v4.6 too bass heavy on my system, in my room. A change of mains cables brought the balance back. I’m know other 272 owners with other speakers, cables, furniture and room and tastes immediately preferred V4.6. It does now sound better than v4.4, but If I couldn’t have brought the balance back in any other way, I’d have returned to v4.4. Im very happy with the current sound.