4.6 update and upgrade sound quality ?

Well done for sorting it out anyway!

best

David

ken c posted:

I did my 4.6 update last Friday and as I reported then, this was quite straight fwd but I didn't have much time to listen properly then.

I managed to do this last night,

I am afraid for me it is definitely not good news. Yes, I can hear more -- but music lines just sound 'louder' to me -- the whole mix lacks subtlety and sounds somewhat 'un-balanced'. It all sounds somewhat more 'animated' and to me, the music seems to have been robbed of its emotion and warmth. Music which prior to the update would relax me now makes me anxious and the whole thing has completely lost 'that which makes me want to play it'. Yes, I can definitely hear more bass -- but it sounds completely wrong and it sounds somewhat out of time and out of tune to me -- in fact I sense 'timing' is now somewhat compromised.

This is all very surprising to me as I have never experienced what to me is a very in-naim like sound in an upgrade. And I find it very hard to believe Naim would release such an 'upgrade'.

Since some people with NDS like the upgrade -- then 2 possibilities -- (a) this is a new direction for naim streamers which I just happen not to like -- tough cheese I guess  (b) there is something wrong with my streamer (I would say this is unlikely as it sounded absolutely sublime before the upgrade)

Now a question for you learned forum members -- is it possible to roll-back this upgrade back to 4.4 and leave absolutely no trace of what to me has been a disastrous 4.6 upgrade? I hope and pray this is possible so I can have my music back... This is all very distressing to me...

many thanks

enjoy...

ken

Strange.

But anyway yes you can roll back to 4.4 You have to download the 4.4 firmware update from Naim's website and do the update again with that. If you want to be quite sure there isn't something odd left behind (like a setting) then you should do the factory reset as well, after the 4.4 update has completed. Your NDS will be like out of the box, so you will have to redo any settings that you have changed.

best

David

I don't see why you can't just repeat the exercise with the v4.4 firmware sine it is still available on the Product Updates page. At least if you do that you can satisfy yourself that it is indeed the update that is causing the perceived adverse change in performance.

Just updated my NDS. Bit of a pain compared to the SU having to drag the power supply upstairs to the Mac too. It seems to sound livelier to me but I have just powered down the system for half an hour while doing it and moved the cables about a bit who who knows why it sounds better, if it does........

ken c posted:

I am afraid for me it is definitely not good news. Yes, I can hear more -- but music lines just sound 'louder' to me -- the whole mix lacks subtlety and sounds somewhat 'un-balanced'. It all sounds somewhat more 'animated' and to me, the music seems to have been robbed of its emotion and warmth. Music which prior to the update would relax me now makes me anxious and the whole thing has completely lost 'that which makes me want to play it'. Yes, I can definitely hear more bass -- but it sounds completely wrong and it sounds somewhat out of time and out of tune to me -- in fact I sense 'timing' is now somewhat compromised.

ken

Intresting... I do agree that there is a change in 'timing'. Either you like it or not, in my case I liked it after 30 sec but I understand if someone feels that it is broken now. I also think that this change needs some listening time. Reason is that personally I have been selecting totally wrong cables after one day listening. So, my first 30 sec feeling might be fooling me as well.

Strange that it sounds 'louder', in my case I feel opposite. I do agree that certain type of 'emotion' is missing but other type of 'emotion' comes instead. I feel it musicality, naturality at the moment. When you get used to something it gives you relaxing feeling, if you change it, it will be definitely odd for a while.

Keep on posting what you decide to do, liked your thoughts.

This all sounds like adding a power supply..all over again..

90% of people like what 4.6 does

5% are not sure

5% hate it 

This all sounds familiar

How can there be a change of 'timing'? Do you mean you perceive there to be a smearing of the leading edge of notes? I confess that when people talk about PRaT that is all I can assume they mean. If the leading edge attack were smeared it might appear that the note was heard later, which could be interpreted as a change of timing. Something similar might also occur in the decay. But many players anticipate the beat to give more attack to a note, or alternatively to lag the beat which can create a (literally) laid back feel.

The firmware update definitely gets a big thumbs up from me. Better all around. Especially the staging. 

Thumbs up from us too (NAC-N 272)  

Fwiw, I will powercycle NDS, Unitiserve/SSD, ReadyNAS and assess. Just a random idea...

ps: One thing I noticed after the upgrade on Fri while playing a track was the NDS display stayed ON indefinitely whereas it normally automatically switched off after a few seconds. whether this has any significance or not, I have no idea...

enjoy...

ken

ken c posted:

Fwiw, I will powercycle NDS, Unitiserve/SSD, ReadyNAS and assess. Just a random idea...

enjoy

ken

I think the old adage of "make haste slowly" is the right one in these situations and restarting everything is certainly a good plan.

Fingers crossed anyway.

best

David

ken c posted:

I did my 4.6 update last Friday and as I reported then, this was quite straight fwd but I didn't have much time to listen properly then.

I managed to do this last night,

I am afraid for me it is definitely not good news. Yes, I can hear more -- but music lines just sound 'louder' to me -- the whole mix lacks subtlety and sounds somewhat 'un-balanced'. It all sounds somewhat more 'animated' and to me, the music seems to have been robbed of its emotion and warmth. Music which prior to the update would relax me now makes me anxious and the whole thing has completely lost 'that which makes me want to play it'. Yes, I can definitely hear more bass -- but it sounds completely wrong and it sounds somewhat out of time and out of tune to me -- in fact I sense 'timing' is now somewhat compromised.

This is all very surprising to me as I have never experienced what to me is a very in-naim like sound in an upgrade. And I find it very hard to believe Naim would release such an 'upgrade'.

Since some people with NDS like the upgrade -- then 2 possibilities -- (a) this is a new direction for naim streamers which I just happen not to like -- tough cheese I guess  (b) there is something wrong with my streamer (I would say this is unlikely as it sounded absolutely sublime before the upgrade)

Now a question for you learned forum members -- is it possible to roll-back this upgrade back to 4.4 and leave absolutely no trace of what to me has been a disastrous 4.6 upgrade? I hope and pray this is possible so I can have my music back... This is all very distressing to me...

many thanks

enjoy...

ken

Ken

I had the same experience (see earlier post). However I did a full factory reset, checked all the inputs and restarted. The NDS sounds fine now, much like what other people are describing following the change to 4.6. So worth doing this before reverting to 4.4.

Finkfan posted:

Amazon basics mini USB cable arrived yesterday and I’ve just had time to get to the office to try it out. Plugged it in, ran the updater and.......

works perfectly!! 

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. 

You do need to download and extract the driver to your computer. Check that you have version 9/27/2017 6.7.5.1893 installed. I restarted my laptop. Started the updater and then plug in the USB to my laptop. It then came up with the message that it was installing the driver. Once that had completed, back to the updater. COM4 was now available in the drop down menu. Click next and it’s away. 

272 is just restarting so I’m off to have a listen. 

Thanks again gents! 

what is the version 9/27/2017?  of windows?  i have windows 7 and my pc don’t detect the usb to mini usb cable.   In the zip naim 4.6, i can’t extract the driver for the usb.  Do i have to install windows 10.   With my past laptop, with windows 10, i had this same cable and could install the 4.4 version.  But i have no more this pc and my old pc , dell xps 15 with windows 7, the cable is not detected.   

French Rooster posted:

Finkfan posted:

Amazon basics mini USB cable arrived yesterday and I’ve just had time to get to the office to try it out. Plugged it in, ran the updater and.......

works perfectly!! 

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. 

You do need to download and extract the driver to your computer. Check that you have version 9/27/2017 6.7.5.1893 installed. I restarted my laptop. Started the updater and then plug in the USB to my laptop. It then came up with the message that it was installing the driver. Once that had completed, back to the updater. COM4 was now available in the drop down menu. Click next and it’s away. 

272 is just restarting so I’m off to have a listen. 

Thanks again gents! 

what is the version 9/27/2017?  of windows?  i have windows 7 and my pc don’t detect the usb to mini usb cable.   In the zip naim 4.6, i can’t extract the driver for the usb.  Do i have to install windows 10.   With my past laptop, with windows 10, i had this same cable and could install the 4.4 version.  But i have no more this pc and my old pc , dell xps 15 with windows 7, the cable is not detected.   

You can install win 10 into your old pc as I did,my pc is 11 years old with win 10,you better format it to a clean windows

The driver is not in the Naim 4.6 zip. You have to get it from the Silebs website. If you read the instructions that are in the 4.6 zip, it explains it all there. You have to install the special USB driver before you start trying to do the Naim update. Windows 7 is fine by the way.

To say again, read the Naim instructions before you do anything.

best

David

You definitely don't need to install Windows 10!!

best

David

Yes, I installed the driver on windows 7. I used version 6.7.5 of the driver from the Silabs site. Like David said, you don’t need windows 10. Once the driver is installed connect the usb cable. The computer should say it’s installing a driver. Then go to the naim upgrade programme and COM4 should now appear in the drop down box. Click next and you’re away. 

i will try to go to the silebs website again. I have done that, click on download but after it disappeared.....i had no link to install or execute....  ( i had clicked on windows 7 version).  Perhaps i have to search now where is the download....

With my last laptop it was easier....

ken c posted:

Fwiw, I will powercycle NDS, Unitiserve/SSD, ReadyNAS and assess. Just a random idea...

ps: One thing I noticed after the upgrade on Fri while playing a track was the NDS display stayed ON indefinitely whereas it normally automatically switched off after a few seconds. whether this has any significance or not, I have no idea...

enjoy...

ken

Mine did that too, but I have now restored that under the 'display' settings. I switched mine back to 10s.

Also if you do a factory reset it will restore the information displayed when you press the 'disp' button on the remote to what you had before. After doing this you will have to reset any iRadio preferences you may have. It will all be fine after that.

I can't say what has changed in the sound specifically, but I believe it does seem to be able to clean up complex, congested music, making it a more pleasurable listening experience. I wonder now just how much better the ND555 can possibly be.

French Rooster posted:

i will try to go to the silebs website again. I have done that, click on download but after it disappeared.....i had no link to install or execute....  ( i had clicked on windows 7 version).  Perhaps i have to search now where is the download....

With my last laptop it was easier....

You have to download the driver, save it to your PC, unzip it and then install using the executable. When that is complete, you can start the Naim updater and connect the cable to the USB.

You can't install the driver directly from the Silebs website without saving it and expanding it.

best

David

John, Clive B, many thanks for suggestions... will try later tonite.

I take it factory reset doesn't wipe out playlists, right??

enjoy

ken

David Hendon posted:

French Rooster posted:

i will try to go to the silebs website again. I have done that, click on download but after it disappeared.....i had no link to install or execute....  ( i had clicked on windows 7 version).  Perhaps i have to search now where is the download....

With my last laptop it was easier....

You have to download the driver, save it to your PC, unzip it and then install using the executable. When that is complete, you can start the Naim updater and connect the cable to the USB.

You can't install the driver directly from the Silebs website without saving it and expanding it.

best

David

ok David, i must to find where is the zip first, and after save and expand as you said.

Open the silabs webpage in your web browser using the link given in the naim update pdf document and look for:

Download for Windows 7/8/8.1/10 (v6.7.5)

Click to download the first (default) version and once downloaded then open the default downloads folder (it may be called "My Downloads") on your computer. There you should see a zip file named CP210x_Windows10_Drivers.zip. Create a new folder and name it e.g. naim update and unzip the contents of the zip folder into it.

Depending on whether your Windows 7 computer is 32 bit or 64 bit you will need to click on the CP210xVCPInstaller_x86.exe file (32 bit) or CP210xVCPInstaller_x64.exe (64 bit)

This will start the installation of the silabs usb driver onto your windows computer.

Once this is done you can check that the driver has been installed by going to Control Panel/Programs and Features where it should appear as the latest software installed.  

As SJBabbey says, but to make it even easier, this is the link to the Silebs download 

https://www.silabs.com/documen...210x_VCP_Windows.zip

Best

David

ken c posted:

I take it factory reset doesn't wipe out playlists, right??

Playlists are stored on the Naim app, so you should be OK.