bi wire or naca 5 cable

There are of course quite a lot of speaker manufacturers now that used to sport bi-wire terminals on their long standing models that have now reverted back to single-wire sockets. 

Stephen Tate posted:

There are of course quite a lot of speaker manufacturers now that used to sport bi-wire terminals on their long standing models that have now reverted back to single-wire sockets. 

Indeed. And while I think this is fine, it does prevent passive biamping. I'd love to keep my PMC Twenty5.23 after we move and employ them in the kitchen. But a bare UQ2 isn't enough. Adding a NAP100 to share the load would have been an elegant solution. But now my options are to eventually sell them and get something UQ2 compstible or keep them and sell the UQ2. 

Biamping offers usage flexibility. No doubt about it. 

feeling_zen posted:

Stephen Tate posted:

There are of course quite a lot of speaker manufacturers now that used to sport bi-wire terminals on their long standing models that have now reverted back to single-wire sockets. 

Indeed. And while I think this is fine, it does prevent passive biamping. I'd love to keep my PMC Twenty5.23 after we move and employ them in the kitchen. But a bare UQ2 isn't enough. Adding a NAP100 to share the load would have been an elegant solution. But now my options are to eventually sell them and get something UQ2 compstible or keep them and sell the UQ2. 

Biamping offers usage flexibility. No doubt about it. 

I believe that like other PMCs the crossover is readily removeable, and a plain backplate could be fitted with separate terminals for each driver (and easily changed back if necessary), allowing active bi-amping with a suitable active crossover, which would be significantly better than passive bi-amping. PMC may even be able to assist, though that is only a guess.

Innocent Bystander posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Stephen Tate posted:

There are of course quite a lot of speaker manufacturers now that used to sport bi-wire terminals on their long standing models that have now reverted back to single-wire sockets. 

Indeed. And while I think this is fine, it does prevent passive biamping. I'd love to keep my PMC Twenty5.23 after we move and employ them in the kitchen. But a bare UQ2 isn't enough. Adding a NAP100 to share the load would have been an elegant solution. But now my options are to eventually sell them and get something UQ2 compstible or keep them and sell the UQ2. 

Biamping offers usage flexibility. No doubt about it. 

I believe that like other PMCs the crossover is readily removeable, and a plain backplate could be fitted with separate terminals for each driver (and easily changed back if necessary), allowing active bi-amping with a suitable active crossover, which would be significantly better than passive bi-amping. PMC may even be able to assist, though that is only a guess.

Ahh now you are talking going active which is another kettle of fish entirely.  I did ask PMC once when I had the previous 20.23s (which have bi-wire terminals). They said no. Clearly they've changed their minds since then since they have active kits for that range for use with Linn Exakt. 25 series presents more of an issue since they have that custom made stainless steel single wire back plate. Unless they are able to supply one with dual terminals for going active or unless you are prepared to do diy and wreck a gbp 3k pair of speakers, you are out of luck. In the latter case, you could do a perfect job but the mere fact you did the mod (undoable as it may be) has already wiped out the resale value. 

Back to the previous point you made: 100% agree. Active betters passive biamping (by miles). I don't see passive biamping as an upgrade. Merely an economical connectivity option. If you have a high quality decent amp that is underpowered for speaker X, would you rather get rid of it and buy a whole new amp, or add on a power amp for less cost and solve the problem that way? There will be advocates of both aporoaches and plenty if purists that dogmatically insist on one amp (the right amp - yawwwwn). 

I prefer the flexibilty to avoid unnecessary box swapping. "Prefer" being the operative word. I still willingly bought single wire speakers and they sound superb since I have the amp to drive them. 

I take part of the last comment back. PMC still say no to active and the kits are supplied by Linn and invaludate the PMC warranty.

with biwiring or biamping you ruin the homogenety of the signal, so the lows, mids and highs aren't a unity anymore. So that means poor sound

feeling_zen posted: 

   . 

Back to the previous point you made: 100% agree. Active betters passive biamping (by miles). I don't see passive biamping as an upgrade. Merely an economical connectivity option. If you have a high quality decent amp that is underpowered for speaker X, would you rather get rid of it and buy a whole new amp, or add on a power amp for less cost and solve the problem that way? There will be advocates of both aporoaches and plenty if purists that dogmatically insist on one amp (the right amp - yawwwwn). 

 

Ah, indeed, if you happen to have a spare amp I can see the logic.

Robiwan posted:

with biwiring or biamping you ruin the homogenety of the signal, so the lows, mids and highs aren't a unity anymore. So that means poor sound

No negative effect if the amps are identical in character (ideally identical amps), at least with active biamping.

Homogeneity ceases at the crossover. How does it make a difference where the crossover is located (e.g. before the amps with an active XO)?

Bi-wiring simply changes the electrical characteristics of the speaker cable. (I’m less clear what is happening electrically with passive bi-amping.)

Well, I went active once, never again. I found it too hard to get the system to truly sing andthere are just too many variables and to put it mildly, it was a pain in the backside. I decided to ditch the lot and go passive again with single wired speakers and have no regrets at all. I was strongly advised on this forum that a much bigger and better amplifier (passive) will out perform a lesser active or bi-amping system. I now have a simple little NAIT into a pair of single wired speakers - I could not be happier!

Stephen Tate posted:

Well, I went active once, never again. I found it too hard to get the system to truly sing andthere are just too many variables and to put it mildly, it was a pain in the backside. I decided to ditch the lot and go passive again with single wired speakers and have no regrets at all. I was strongly advised on this forum that a much bigger and better amplifier (passive) will out perform a lesser active or bi-amping system. I now have a simple little NAIT into a pair of single wired speakers - I could not be happier!

Out of curiosity, assuming that was fully active, what active XO? And which speakers/amps?

In terms of active with cheaper amps vs passive with a more expensive amp, it  will depend very much on the specific amps and the specific speakers, so I don’t think it is something where there can be a universally correct answer as to which will sound better. But certainly active with the same amps as passive should be better than passive, provided of course that the active XO is itself of adequate quality, and set up appropriately.

Robiwan posted:

with biwiring or biamping you ruin the homogenety of the signal, so the lows, mids and highs aren't a unity anymore. So that means poor sound

Not if it's done right...

It's just that it's quite hard to do it right!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Out of curiosity, assuming that was fully active, what active XO? And which speakers/amps?

In terms of active with cheaper amps vs passive with a more expensive amp, it  will depend very much on the specific amps and the specific speakers, so I don’t think it is something where there can be a universally correct answer as to which will sound better. But certainly active with the same amps as passive should be better than passive, provided of course that the active XO is itself of adequate quality, and set up appropriately.

Ok, in all fairness, I only ran a slimline active system which comprised of a Naim CD3 - NAC92 - Flatcap PSU - IXO - 2X 90.3 amps with four runs of NAC A5 into a pair of Credos. Don't get me wrong, when in fine fettle it rocked and could go extremely loud with no compression whatsoever and was very revealing and compelling.

The trouble starts when the system would sound 'off' for whatever reason - connection - mains - cable dressing - stacking order - this had me in a constant state of tweaking and paranoia and it would end up detracting me from just enjoying the music. One day it would sound great and then the next day not so great, maybe a cable had relaxed too much or something or another I don't know but because of the revealing nature of active you would hear it, whatever that maybe. This would have me pulling my hair out on quite a few occasions because pinning it down wasn't easy either and by the time I had sorted it I was no longer in the mood for listening to music.

I'm glad those days are gone. Now with my simple little Nait system I just enjoy the music in a much more consistent way, ok it does not have anywhere near the insight or the compelling nature of the active set but i'm still enjoying my music in a very enjoyable way nevertheless. At least the little Nait set gives me the emotion and timing of the music and is much more forgiving, I can now play rock music quite loud for instance without my ears being torn off, something that used to grate me with the active set. Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to put anyone off going active but I do think one has to do it properly though, by that I mean having a proper mains supply installed, buying ALL the kit brand new from scratch so it's as closely matched as possible and having lots of experience with Hi Fi in general. It's certainly not for the faint hearted!

Well, that's my experience anyway.

My apologies to the OP for the divergence, stick with the single wiring as others have advised, bi-wiring to me sounded awful when I tried it, the fun factor just seemed to disappear.

Thanks ST, and points understood.

Huge posted:

Robiwan posted:

with biwiring or biamping you ruin the homogenety of the signal, so the lows, mids and highs aren't a unity anymore. So that means poor sound

Not if it's done right...

It's just that it's quite hard to do it right!

That there's 8 options to consider when wiring up a single run pair into a biwire terminal with jumpers,   getting it right could take some time..