Running out of speakers to try!

The speaker that I think is stinking,y good for its price is the Russel K 50. With my 552 I hear so much more with them. Perhaps not totally totally neutral, they do seem to highlight upper mids, but generally in a superb way.. but for music replay I am finding then rather compelling. My ATCs cant compete in terms of detail and timing and musical fun, but the ATCs are I feel more neutral... 

Harbeth P3ESR or ATC SCM7 (possibly 11 or 19) with a DSP controlled sub.

Use the room simulation dialogue of REW to work out candidate positions for the speakers (particularly the sub), then try three or four of these.  The DSP controlling the sub (built in, miniDSP2x4 or Antimode S) will substantially reduce the effect of room resonances causing the bass 'boom' effect.

In tricky rooms where you still want decent bass weight and feel, one or two good subs working alongside a good small stand mount speaker can work very well. 

In a small room acoustic issues are quite unavoidable (unless you seriously treat the room).  Another fact is that the more air is put into “movement” the more marked are these problems.

I would suggest trying theJMR Abscisse. I have a pair of those.

The speaker’s cones are quite small, 13cm which means they don’t put big amounts of air in movement which means less acoustic problems.  (The updated (Abscisse Jubilé) version of these speakers has 14cm cones).

The speakers are fast, quite resolving, have wonderful mids and heights. But don’t get me wrong, the low frequencies are there when needed (Susuki’s interpretation of JS Bach Toccata and Fugue in Dm is really enjoyable!)

Regarding the room treatment, it is possible to do something with curtains. I added curtains made of a special voile fabric to my back walls (glass doors and windows). It made huge difference!

The fabric is a pretty technical product. It absorbs sound's energy. It has an alpha-s coefficient of 0.8 (max is 1). Some info here.

Hope it helps.

For that budget, you could get a pair of Kudos S20s s/h. They work really well in the sort of space you have and are a step up in musicality in comparison to other speakers that you mention. 

Moving the speakers is a vital part of getting them to work in the room, even half a centimetre came make an audible difference. If you’re constrained to eg an inch to the side of the chimney breast and the front of the speakers level with the it you’ll go through a lot of speakers trying to find a pair that fits those requirements. If on the other hand you have a bit of leeway  you stand more of a chance. What are your constraints?

I’ve heard the Russell K Red50 and Red100 sound sublime on the end of the Naim 272 / 200 (and UQ2), although they need a little space behind them. They certainly did not show any bass boom when I had a dem with them. 

Alternatively an infinite baffle design such as the new ProAc Tablette 10 (even though you have doubts) as they are gaining a dedicated following for placement flexibility and a room filling performance, then perhaps experiment with a dedicated sub to control the lower frequencies if required?

Another vote for Russell K

I have red 100 on the end of 272/xpsdr/250dr

They are either side of a fire place firing across the room and sound great

Worth a try deffo ...

MUNGOCHATNEY, what about ProAc Response D Two? A wonderfully balanced speaker!

I know this sounds strange perhaps an amp with more grip would actually help.... 

I bought the ATC SCM11 in December last year. I have to say they sound absolutely stunning on the end of my NAP200.

Additionally during my audition I compared the SCM11 directly to the Russell K red 50. To my ears the ATC bettered them considerably. 

One thing I did notice with the ATC SCM11 was the huge improvement at home compared to the demonstration room. I think is mostly attributed to the stands. In the demonstration room Target stands were used, but at home I have the SCM11 placed on Custom Design FS104 signature stands.

But we all hear things differently and I think choosing speakers is generally quite difficult. 

Ian.

ATC.      HTS11

Based on the ATC SCM11.  With the same internal volume and drivers.

Have heard on demo against the free standing box, and sounded better.    If you have the right sized and compatible room layout..

I too enjoy my Russell K Red 50s tremendously, driven by an original Qute with the digital upgrade; in a small room with a fireplace between the speakers.  Bass boom is not an issue, but the speakers are set out a bit from the back wall.

They look very promising Tobyjug. Did they need a sub to fill out the lower frequencies?

Yetizone posted:

They look very promising Tobyjug. Did they need a sub to fill out the lower frequencies?

With that wall reinforcement they seemed to go an octave deeper than the SCM, and without the bloom smokescreen you would imagine.

ProAc D20s and/or the ProAc Tablettes might be worth a try...

Look into the new floorstander from Proac called the DT8, it's from their Response line, has really great tight and fast bass, might be just what you're looking for. They will give you the scale and bass you are looking to get that can be lacking from a stand mount. I heard them on the end of a 200, seemed to have great synergy with the Naim gear.

They don't boom like the D20 and D30 models that can in some rooms, or the speakers that you mentioned you had auditioned. A phenomenal sounding speaker, especially with Naim.

I'm using PMC GB1i's, with a NAP200, firing across a similar sized room, but don't experience the bass boom you describe. In fact the bass is very solid but well controlled.

How far are the speakers positioned from the rear wall? How is the room furnished?

PMC speakers, I believe, are generally considered to be pretty room neutral.

Dave

There is no mention of good old Sbl's yet.

May be try some active small floor standers or stand mounts/bracket mounts from PMC (as you already appear to like the GB1i), ATC, Genelec etc.  

Neat Acoustics passives plus a sub may another option.

Bracket or wall Mount may be give more flexibility in positioning.

Those PMC GB1i's are phenomemental speakers. Anything new at that £3000 price is gonna be a side grade.

TOBYJUG posted:

Those PMC GB1i's are phenomemental speakers. Anything new at that £3000 price is gonna be a side grade.

 

That's the kind of comment I like to read. I must be doing something right. ????

With regard to the OPs issues Further to earlier suggestions are the speakers mounted on the plinth correctly using the supplied spikes? What kind of floor is it? What speaker cable is being used?

Dave

Thanks all for your replies. The speakers are stood on granite plinths using the supplied spikes with about 50cm behind them - I cant move them anywhere more suitable. Think my next step will be Amphion (supposedly designed to be minimally affected by room boundaries) and Russell K (although I think the smaller one is rear ported which will cause issues). I may try some Proac Response D2s but these look like large speakers and I would be concerned about boom. A sub isn't something I've previously thought about but might explore further when I truly have exhausted all other options.

Thanks again.

Try the Tab 10...You might be pleasantly surprised.

G

S400, you never know.....