The third try: Naim Superline with Rega RP10

Yes, I have also tried to run it without the HMS. In the dealer's configuration we also did not use a filter. We also tried it with and without the XPS DR for the 272.

I was also in contact with Musicline. The idea was, that it is a problem with the earth. And they told to try als these things with different cables, distances between the components, grounding of the RP 10... I have tried all of these advices. Therefore I decided to add a separate ground cable to the RP 10. Nothing solved my problem so long. My dealer will contact Musicline this week.

Ok thanks.  I've mailed one of the engineers at Naim to see whether he has any ideas here.

Richard: Thank you. I'm curious!

ChrisBerlin posted:

If the noise that I notice is usual for the combination of Superline and 272 then Naim should not offer it. In this case Naim must say, that this combination does not work! And because of no such statements from Naim, I think it works. I just don't know how...

As guys around here will know only too well I’m a complete idiot on all this stuff but adding vinyl does quite often add complications.   

Hope you get it sorted Chris because the RP10 with your system should be excellent. Good luck.  

Regards,

Lindsay

I have used the Superline (with Supercap) since its introduction, and in the early days ws often here moaning about the noise sensitivity. After all this time, and numerous cartridges, my belief is you MUST add some capacitance, and you MUST use properly screened and earthed interconnects. Mine is now completely silent (apart from the music ;-)

oh yes, and keep electrically noisey bits of kit away from it.

The noise that is produced with my setup is not a matter of sound quality. It is just so loud, that you do not want to listen to any music. Perhaps a 0.001 Ohm resistive plug and a 1 F capacitive plug would be good against the noise. But this would probably influence all the noise - the music included

Chris,

do you have any capacitance on the Superline?  You should try that. I use 1nF on my own Superline. 

I heard from one of Naim's R&D engineers - he asked: If he hasn’t already tried it I’d be interested to know what happens if he fits 100R and 10nf load plugs and disconnects the turntable totally (as in disconnect it’s psu from the mains and remove the tone arm leads from the superline). If it’s the lead causing the problem it should still be there in this state, although its character may change.

Faulty 272; might be it. Can’t think of a way that would give his symptoms though. The analogue side of a 272 is the same as any other big preamp we make – so it’s a relay input selector, buffer, volume control, gain, relay on output.

Failing that, and having tried all else, If you are still getting noise then it could possibly be a fault with the Hicap or with the NAC-N272.

Can't be a faulty 272 as he has tried several. Could be a faulty Superline?

Ah yes, thanks Dozey. Possibly a faulty Hicap or possibly Superline (but hasn't Chris already tried another SL?).  However, you do need to experiment with fine tuning the capacitance before judging the Superline faulty or not. It could just be that other phono pres have enough capacitance to minimise any noise whereas the SL allows you adjust this down incrementally to none, if you can get away with it, or a little which may be ideal.

Richard: Thank you very much. So long I have not tried any capacitance. I only use a no, a 100, 220 or 500 Ohm resistive plug. The lower the resistance, the lower the noise. Especially higher frequencies are filtered. But the noise is always audible.

Dozey: That is the point. We have tested different RP 10 and other turntables, different 272, different Superlines and different HiCaps. We also tried a Supercap to power the Superline.

Let’s see what happens with the 252?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Let’s see what happens with the 252?

It's another variable though. The only difference between this and the 252 should be down to the position of the grounding switch on the 272.

I'd start with adding capacitance on the Superline and work from there.

I wil try the capacitive plugs when I am at home again on the weekend. Thank you very much for your advices.

james n posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Let’s see what happens with the 252?

It's another variable though. The only difference between this and the 252 should be down to the position of the grounding switch on the 272.

I'd start with adding capacitance on the Superline and work from there.

I’ve absolutely no technical evidence or indeed knowledge on which to base this but I’ve got a gut instinct that it would be okay with a traditional pre.   

Regards,

Lindsay

There was no change when installing the Superline and RP10 on a 252. The noise was the same. So I will try different capacitive plugs on weekend.

That's good Chris - another variable eliminated. I'll be interested in what you find when you try the capacitive plug. 

James

james n posted:

That's good Chris - another variable eliminated. I'll be interested in what you find when you try the capacitive plug. 

James

 

I too look forward to hearing how things go when you add some capacitance.

My Superline, RP 10 and HiCap is home again. I have tested all capacitive plugs, but there is no change in the noise. In some situations I hear a very loud noise. This could sometimes be produced, when I select all activated inputs with the input button on the 272 from the DIN to the DIN input. Now I can avoid this loud noise, when I touch the tonearm, the bottom of the motor case or the Superline. This is obviously a grounding issue. A separate grounding cable is installed on the RP 10 now. I do not feel like it anymore.

Do you mean that now you have the separate grounding cable you no longer have the hum?

A separate grounding cable was added to the RP 10. But that causes no change of the noise or hum. In some situations the noise is even louder than before. I don't know what to do next.

Chris - have you tried another phono stage?

..or another cartridge?

Only time I've had a similar issues as this was with an example of the SPU Royal N.  It seems that the body wasn't "earthing" properly to the heads hell.  You could reduce hum noise by touching the arm or cartridge bolts.  In the end I used a thin copper "gasket" or shim between the cartridge and headshell and this totally cured the problem.

I wonder whether you are experiencing something similar here..

That's a shame Chris and it must be getting frustrating, particularly as this seems to happen with various combinations (and as you say you found the same substituting a SME TT for the RP10)

The noise you get - is it hiss, hum or what ? Does it stay constant or get louder with a change in volume ?

James

Out of interest, have you tried another cartridge, just to rule it out as a possible suspect?

Yes, we also tried another cartridge on the RP 10. That is not the reason. We thought, it could be the cartridge, because the body of the Koetsu is completely from aluminium. But as I said, noch change when using another cartridge.

Now, I get two different noises. Both vary with the volume level:

1. A kind of 50 Hz hum especially on the right chanel. This noise is not very loud. At lower volume levels it is not really noticeable. At volume levels of 40 and higher it is clearly noticeable. Because I often hear at higher volume levels of 50 this noise bothers me.

2. In some situations - it seems, that it needs an impuls - there is a really loud noise. This is not a 50 Hz hum. It is more a kind of hiss.