No more tuner from Naim ?

It is a sad day when Naim don't make tuners. It was sad when the SBL went out of production, ditto Olive boxes ..... Times change and not always for the better. However I sold my NAT02 as I couldn't hear any difference between that and my SBT/nDAC using the high rate BBC streams and couldn't jusify keeping it. Perhaps my age is impacting on my hearing? There are also so many stations available via internet radio that aren't available on FM e.g. Radio Schizoid, DylanRadio. If there is a reduction in quality then the variety of new stations out there more than compensates for me.

BN

blythe posted:

.............     Surely there is a problem with their signal quality/strength?

Not in my case,  NAT-05 with RS Galaxy & the transmitter 3.5 miles away.   I'm not saying iRadio is better,  just that it's different & with the highest bit rate stations & with some material/genre,  I prefer it

Robiwan posted:

There is no need for a FM tuner with iRadio. Furthermore >=192 kbs iRadio sounds better.  

I don’t think so  with a quality tuner...lossy  AAC is good, but I prefer lossless PCM 

further some content in the UK is not permitted on web radio and can only be broadcast over the air... web radio just gets that annoying loop saying that licence restrictions permit access via the web.

however the demand just isn’t there for a premium high cost radio... when I was at the Naim factory 16 months ago, I remember saying they hadn’t built a tuner for many weeks.

Hi value radio seem to be very much the domain for the communication engineer/ enthusiast now where they can cost many thousands of pounds, but stereo high  quality is not a key factor in those devices, I know, I have an Icom 

 Simon

So what's the outlook for FM radio broadcasts in Singapore?

james n posted:

I wouldn't say FM is dead. It looks like it'll be going for quite a while yet. The new tuner market is somewhat limited as the demand is just not there. As Richard mentions, there is some really nice pre-loved kit available for not a lot of money so plenty of choice around.

The demand is not there. I wonder if Joe Public has been conned into believing that digital is better, just like in 1983-4 when we were told that CD offered perfect sound forever. And what a load of horse dung that was!

Clive B posted:.

The demand is not there. I wonder if Joe Public has been conned into believing that digital is better, just like in 1983-4 when we were told that CD offered perfect sound forever. And what a load of horse dung that was!

Well, digital music, ehether CD or, better, streaming from a local store, has eventually turned out OK. The trouble with digital radio more than anything is its inability to remain coherent when reception conditions deteriorate, which is an inherent limitation of radio. So if FM days are numbered, in my view that meant the days of iistenable music on radio are numbered, and so the end of a Naim tuner more or less inevitable...

Eloise posted:

cat345 posted:

When FM is gone, […] What happens in case of an emergency if nobody can communicate the facts by radio?

You really think in cases of emergency we will get facts?

(Sorry this comment probably needs deleting being off topic and everything)

Probably off topic again but many people rely on FM for music listening, entertainment and news so why should these folks get a costly internet service and unnecessary computer/streamer they don't need in many cases? Should they be forced to do so just like kids are incited to go to school? 

NAD 402 was the best non Naim tuner I used. It was a bit more expensive than the (excellent) Denon TU260L but was a massive jump up.

Back in the day, a lot of customers went for　this over the NAT03. 

FM cutoff is this year in the place I live (not UK) and DAB never made it here. It is a shame. My NAD 402 got me through every night of studying for a few years. OTOH I don't miss needing to buy massive elaborate aerials that made it look like I was listening for aliens. Or having unsightly ct100 running around the house. Some aspects of FM are remembered through rose-tinted goggles.

These things should appear for auction occasionally. But for sure, anyone willing to buy a new Naim NAT (any version) is likely to have a special soft spot for the format and hang on to it. The excellent non Naim units are likely to be of an age benefitting a service but not being Naim, the prospects of a manufacturer service are greatly diminished in some cases.

Christopher_M posted:

So what's the outlook for FM radio broadcasts in Singapore?

We have nearly 30 radio  stations in Singapore and as a matter of fact, they have been growing in recent years.  

Most people listen to radio stations through their car audio systems while driving and in some work places like factories or workshops, they are used as "background music" to counter the monotony of the day. More and more are streaming from apps and desktop via the station's dedicated streaming service. I am just surprised that there aren't many options to buy a dedicated radio tuner today from an electronics departmental store.

engjoo posted:

Devasting to learn that analog radio is (almost) dead.

Interesting perception. I currently have 26 FM and 16 AM radio stations in close listening range. The AM number goes up to 30 for distant range, and 46 for fringe listening. When I lived in Alaska National Public Radio (NPR) was my primary source of news and information and it remains so today for many folks outlying areas of the US.

My grievance with today's FM radio rock/pop stations is their excessive bass boosting. For that reason XM (digital) radio sounds better on my car stereo. Taking that into account, I can see where some might prefer digital radio's SQ, especially on Naim gear at home where you don't have the bass and treble adjustments of a car stereo. No doubt though, there is a different "feel" between the FM and digital radio presentations.

To further the discussion - anyone still listening to a tube FM tuner? I do my AM listening at home on a 71-year-old six tube radio.

Robiwan posted:

blythe posted:

iRadio on my HDX doesn't even come close to my NAT05 using a roof mounted Ron Smith Galaxy aerial, even on BBC Radio 2, which although not as compressed as Radio 1, still isn't as good quality as Radio 3.
I'm surprised to see people saying they find iRadio better sounding. Surely there is a problem with their signal quality/strength?

nothing wrong with fm signal, iRadio simply sounds better. 

Whahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

joerand posted

To further the discussion - anyone still listening to a tube FM tuner? I do my AM listening at home on a 71-year-old six tube radio.

I still have a Leak Troughline 3 that I dig out every now and then.

feeling_zen posted:

NAD 402 was the best non Naim tuner I used. It was a bit more expensive than the (excellent) Denon TU260L but was a massive jump up.

Back in the day, a lot of customers went for　this over the NAT03. 

FM cutoff is this year in the place I live (not UK) and DAB never made it here. It is a shame. My NAD 402 got me through every night of studying for a few years. OTOH I don't miss needing to buy massive elaborate aerials that made it look like I was listening for aliens. Or having unsightly ct100 running around the house. Some aspects of FM are remembered through rose-tinted goggles.

These things should appear for auction occasionally. But for sure, anyone willing to buy a new Naim NAT (any version) is likely to have a special soft spot for the format and hang on to it. The excellent non Naim units are likely to be of an age benefitting a service but not being Naim, the prospects of a manufacturer service are greatly diminished in some cases.

Naim is rightly renowned for its service and support for old models but in a quieter way Quad also has a service department in Huntingdon which is similarly excellent. The main difference is that you don't have to access it via a dealer.

best

David

I'm slowly turning green reading this thread.  The problem with FM as a source is that most hifi tuners need a decent signal which we do not have here.  A whopping great aerial on the roof might do it, but even if we could find an installer to put one up I doubt we'd be allowed to as we live in a conservation area.  That is why my old Onix BWD 1 is sitting upstairs unused (but not unloved).

I don't really go along with the "iradio sounds better" assertion but the the BBC's FLAC broadcasts during the proms last year were excellent, some of the best sounds I have heard from the system.  Sadly the Beeb seem to have gone suspiciously quiet on the subject since then.  Still, here's hoping.

Roger

FM is one of the few real clever and innocent joys of life. It is obvious it's bound to be banned. Next they'll ban bicycles.

According to Wikipedia,   (for UK)  that in March 2018 it was announced officially that FM switch-off had been indefinitely postponed.       I'm still trying to find the "official" part of this,  & the definition of postponed is delayed so I'm not sure how indefinitely fits in with that.    All I've seen is a BBC proposal for a delay.   https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...switch-off-cancelled       Still looking,  has anyone else seen anything & a link to UK.Gov or Ofcom

Peakman posted:

I'm slowly turning green reading this thread.  The problem with FM as a source is that most hifi tuners need a decent signal which we do not have here.  A whopping great aerial on the roof might do it, but even if we could find an installer to put one up I doubt we'd be allowed to as we live in a conservation area.  That is why my old Onix BWD 1 is sitting upstairs unused (but not unloved).

I don't really go along with the "iradio sounds better" assertion but the the BBC's FLAC broadcasts during the proms last year were excellent, some of the best sounds I have heard from the system.  Sadly the Beeb seem to have gone suspiciously quiet on the subject since then.  Still, here's hoping.

Roger

Agreed on almost all points. I too have a bad reception area, which doesn't prevent me from enjoying a very few moments of good FM sound whenever (wherever) I can.

As for iRadio sounding 'better', that makes me laugh: in my youth, cable radio (filodiffusione) of pure classical music was snubbed because it was broadcast in MW and limited to 12 kHerz... Which now I can't here anymore anyway. Now people rave for 320K mp3s like if it was the epitome of broadcasting quality. I understand the old Stephen Still's wisdom 'If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with', but cheating oneself into believing what can't be avoided is not wisdom, it's depression. iRadio is digital mp3, background music. Exactly like digital TV is background brain masher. FM is another thing.

Mike-B posted:

According to Wikipedia,   (for UK)  that in March 2018 it was announced officially that FM switch-off had been indefinitely postponed.       I'm still trying to find the "official" part of this,  & the definition of postponed is delayed so I'm not sure how indefinitely fits in with that.    All I've seen is a BBC proposal for a delay.   https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...switch-off-cancelled       Still looking,  has anyone else seen anything & a link to UK.Gov or Ofcom

I'm pretty sure that DCMS hasn't formally decided yet and it is a DCMS decision, not Ofcom, although no doubt they will give the Government advice. But pretty well the only point of switching off FM was to save the BBC simulcasting costs and if the BBC wants to keep it, I think it's unlikely that the Government will argue. The spectrum is worth pretty well nothing anyway and almost certainly if the BBC exited it, the small broadcasters (hyper local radio) would be allowed to move in, but actually the cheap option for them is iradio. 

On quality I always prefer FM to the BBC HD streams. DAB in the UK is rubbish of course. But I do agree with Peakman that the BBC FLAC trial was the best of all and it's a great pity they haven't moved forward with that. One hopes they might be willing to give it a further "trial" during the Proms, as they did in 2017.

best

David

It has saddened me to read this thread, but I suppose if the public has been conned into buying BAD radio then the demand for high quality FM units will dry up. Therefore, it's not surprising that Naim Audio has decided to cease production.

I still find my NAT01 to be the best source I own. The only issue is that I do not get to choose the music, of course.

Having had mine serviced just a couple of years ago, I hope Naim Audio will still have the necessary expertise and facilities to service them in ten years time.

David Hendon posted:

On quality I always prefer FM to the BBC HD streams. DAB in the UK is rubbish of course. But I do agree with Peakman that the BBC FLAC trial was the best of all and it's a great pity they haven't moved forward with that. One hopes they might be willing to give it a further "trial" during the Proms, as they did in 2017.

My problem is none of my favourite (BBC) radio is on FM...

Richard Dane posted:

engjoo posted:

Thanks Richard. Currently shortlisting the NAD C427 tuner. 

Devasting to learn that analog radio is (almost) dead.

I remember that the Nad 4225 was a particular favourite of (IIRC) Noel Keywood in Hifi Review.

Big favourite of mine too in the early 90s before I got a NAT02. The NAT sounded better but the NAD stayed in tune!! 

Currently doing FM duties here is the tiny Project Tuner box S MARK 2 (stressed) - cheap, sounds remarkable.

Ironic thread given that the BBC have just realised the error of their DAB ways.

The 66 looks good. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the FM3 & 4 too.

Now the Lecson FM1. That's just beautiful 

David Hendon posted:

Mike-B posted:

According to Wikipedia,   (for UK)  that in March 2018 it was announced officially that FM switch-off had been indefinitely postponed.       I'm still trying to find the "official" part of this,  & the definition of postponed is delayed so I'm not sure how indefinitely fits in with that.    All I've seen is a BBC proposal for a delay.   https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...switch-off-cancelled       Still looking,  has anyone else seen anything & a link to UK.Gov or Ofcom

I'm pretty sure that DCMS hasn't formally decided yet and it is a DCMS decision, not Ofcom, although no doubt they will give the Government advice. But pretty well the only point of switching off FM was to save the BBC simulcasting costs and if the BBC wants to keep it, I think it's unlikely that the Government will argue. The spectrum is worth pretty well nothing anyway and almost certainly if the BBC exited it, the small broadcasters (hyper local radio) would be allowed to move in, but actually the cheap option for them is iradio. 

On quality I always prefer FM to the BBC HD streams. DAB in the UK is rubbish of course. But I do agree with Peakman that the BBC FLAC trial was the best of all and it's a great pity they haven't moved forward with that. One hopes they might be willing to give it a further "trial" during the Proms, as they did in 2017.

best

David

Incidentally I heard that the BBC is imminently taking Radio 3 off FM on some local relays in Wales, to gain room for a Welsh language broadcast station, because there is no alternative way of accommodating the Welsh language station on those relays otherwise. But there doesn't seem to have been much publicity (or fuss) about that.

best

David

Well it’s all a buggers muddle.  My favourite stations are BBC R3/4/6 Music,  Jazz FM and R Paradise.  

So it’s like this.  R3/4 are just excellent on FM on my Nat 05 and pretty good in the car.   On my Qb all 3 stations suffer from constant drop outs - apparently this is a Naim specific problem.   DAB in the car sounds somewhat less than good and suffers from regular and annoying drop outs particularly on Jazz FM which despite its title doesn’t broadcast on FM.  Paradise is excellent on the Qb as is Jazz FM.   

Regards,

Lindsay

Alba1320 posted:

I continue to toy with the idea of getting a Naim NAT 01, though.

Go on; you know you want to!

I've seen some recently on a well known auction site going for around £600. I even saw an olive one with the rotating wheel tuning indicator. That looked REALLY nice. I was almost tempted to buy that and sell... No I can't bring myself to write it.