The 4.6 verdict

Posted by: Jack From Adelaide on 14 April 2018

Well, it is now a week since I updated my NDX to use the new 4.6 firmware. My principle purpose was to try and improve the stuttering I had on TIDAL and I didn't expect anything else. The playback through TIDAL is vastly improved. There, post done. WAIT there's more.

What I didn't expect from the description was any noticeable change in sound quality. I don't have a multi-room system (would that I could afford such a luxury!) but I do have quite a good main music system, which includes an NDX.

What I found after the first few albums was that the bass was tighter and more "tuneful". Then I noticed higher resolution. This became apparent almost immediately because my music room is next door to my Mother In Law's bedroom and I usually have to either use headphones or listen at painfully low levels so as not to disturb her. I was reading a book and kept having my attention drawn to whatever I was playing. The instruments and the singers were literally leaping out of the speakers into the room. It was uncanny. At this very moment I am listening to K. D Lang's "Hymns of the 49th Parallel" on UpNP server (minim server - rendered to WAV) and the piano in Hallelujah has this wonderful dynamic presentation, the loud and quiet passages are rendered more noticeably. K.D.'s voice and her exquisite control of the pacing and phrasing is there to hear. In a way that I have never noticed before. A couple of days ago it was Imogen Heap and her Ellipse album on TIDAL. Again the sense of her being in the room was remarkable. At some points it made the hair on my arms stand up. I have listened to E. Power Biggs playing Handel, the bizarre and ultimately rewarding Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith's "The Kid", Dami Im's new album "I Hear a Song" and Ryan Teagues "Block Boundaries". Every album is surrendering new details and expression that I have never heard before.

For those of you as ancient as me it is equivalent to the first time I put a moving coil cartridge on my turntable: I am rushing to listen to old favourites and new music to see what it sounds like now! In some cases I am discovering that they aren't as well recorded as I thought (Scartaglen's "This Nights Fun" was closed in and you could hear each microphone feed was in a separate acoustic) others are better than I ever suspected.

This upgrade was extremely painful to load (see my recent posts on the issue) but it was well worth the effort. Here is the magic of digital audio: a simple firmware upgrade is like a multi-thousand dollar improvement in your system.

My advice: If you can't load the firmware after an hour of effort, simply take your gear to your dealer and offer them $20 or something to do it for you. It is well worth the effort.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by JogoVogo

Sorry,

bur cut off the important middle frequencies for all that bad speaker is not a experience...

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by DaveBk

Interesting Ken... that would imply that the actual firmware is sent via the serial connection with no checksums, or other means of verifying that the content is not corrupted. Seems a risky approach from Naim, but I suppose anything is possible,

I always update from a MacBook with a 0.5m USB, and a 1m Ethernet to the local switch at the bottom of my rack, so it’s all nice short connections. Perhaps some form of firmware corruption is possible?

Maybe someone with a better understanding of implementing an IIR filter on a SHARC DSP can explain further, but it seems extremely unlikely that a corruption could hit a non-critical byte or two that wouldn’t stop it working completely, but would materially impact the filter response such that the sound is so badly impacted?

In the NDS white paper, Naim state that the actual filter is implemented in 5 lines of assembly code, but I guess these are SIMD type operations, so they could each address loads of data. Could a corrupted data block containing coefficients for the filter be corrupted, but the actual execution inctructions be intact? Just trying to rationalise this in my own mind.

Glad the music is back though Ken, whatever the explanation.

Dave.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by ken c

Robiwan posted:
lot's of BS about the way to update the streamer etc. It really makes zero difference if the laptop is full of crap. Just connect a pc device with a suitable usb cable to the streamer and update the thing. There is really lot's of voodoo problems here on this Naim voodoo forum. Read the damn manuals, read the faq's, wash the ears etc.

wow!

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by musicfan51

ken c posted:
Robiwan posted:
lot's of BS about the way to update the streamer etc. It really makes zero difference if the laptop is full of crap. Just connect a pc device with a suitable usb cable to the streamer and update the thing. There is really lot's of voodoo problems here on this Naim voodoo forum. Read the damn manuals, read the faq's, wash the ears etc.

wow!
enjoy...
ken

Bit too much venom in Robiwan’s post ! Don’t let it bother you Ken.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by nigelb

Great news Ken, very pleased for you.

I would hope that Naim take note of your 4.6 'journey' and try to understand if there are any possible explanations of 4.6 SQ disparity (particularly on NDS) from your trials and tribulations.

I have always maintained there in something inconsistent with the 4.6 firmware update that can't be explained away by 'personal preference' as I cannot remember such a split in attitudes from any of the pervious updates. Having said this, it seems to me that 4.4 to 4.6 has had the biggest impact (positive in my view) on SQ, so I am sure personal preference is playing a part in the disparity of opinion, but I suspect there is more to it. Anyway, Trevor has said Naim are investigating.

In the meantime, as you say Ken, enjoy!

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by nigelb

JogoVogo posted:
Sorry,
bur cut off the important middle frequencies for all that bad speaker is not a experience...

....and now in a language some of us might recognise please...

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by ken c

DaveBk posted:
Interesting Ken... that would imply that the actual firmware is sent via the serial connection with no checksums, or other means of verifying that the content is not corrupted. Seems a risky approach from Naim, but I suppose anything is possible,
I always update from a MacBook with a 0.5m USB, and a 1m Ethernet to the local switch at the bottom of my rack, so it’s all nice short connections. Perhaps some form of firmware corruption is possible?
Maybe someone with a better understanding of implementing an IIR filter on a SHARC DSP can explain further, but it seems extremely unlikely that a corruption could hit a non-critical byte or two that wouldn’t stop it working completely, but would materially impact the filter response such that the sound is so badly impacted?
In the NDS white paper, Naim state that the actual filter is implemented in 5 lines of assembly code, but I guess these are SIMD type operations, so they could each address loads of data. Could a corrupted data block containing coefficients for the filter be corrupted, but the actual execution inctructions be intact? Just trying to rationalise this in my own mind.
Glad the music is back though Ken, whatever the explanation.
Dave.

Thanks Dave. I must admit I wasn't expecting what I did to make any difference at all, given that 2 previous iterations failed to produce the right SQ for me. In fact initially I really had to pinch myself to be sure that the nasty artefacts I was hearing before had gone. I have no idea what made the difference in the end -- I have no deep knowledge of the underlying issues, i.e. whether corruption is possible etc

One thing I cannot remember is whether I checked the version the first 2 times that I updated -- pity -- as that would been useful information.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by Robiwan

musicfan51 posted:
Robiwan posted:
lot's of BS about the way to update the streamer etc. It really makes zero difference if the laptop is full of crap. Just connect a pc device with a suitable usb cable to the streamer and update the thing. There is really lot's of voodoo problems here on this Naim voodoo forum. Read the damn manuals, read the faq's, wash the ears etc.

Why are you taking this personal Robiwan ? Ken just reported the facts of his experience. I thought it was nice of him to share !

nothing personal it's in general for this voodoo forum lack of any logical common sense and silly advices.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by JogoVogo

nigelb posted:
JogoVogo posted:
Sorry,
bur cut off the important middle frequencies for all that bad speaker is not a experience...
....and now in a language some of us might recognise please...

Magnificent!

Lost frequency.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by nigelb

JogoVogo posted:
nigelb posted:
JogoVogo posted:
Sorry,
bur cut off the important middle frequencies for all that bad speaker is not a experience...
....and now in a language some of us might recognise please...
Magnificent!
Lost frequency.

No, still don't understand the banter.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by ken c

nigelb posted:
Great news Ken, very pleased for you.
I would hope that Naim take note of your 4.6 'journey' and try to understand if there are any possible explanations of 4.6 SQ disparity (particularly on NDS) from your trials and tribulations.
I have always maintained there in something inconsistent with the 4.6 firmware update that can't be explained away by 'personal preference' as I cannot remember such a split in attitudes from any of the pervious updates. Having said this, it seems to me that 4.4 to 4.6 has had the biggest impact (positive in my view) on SQ, so I am sure personal preference is playing a part in the disparity of opinion, but I suspect there is more to it. Anyway, Trevor has said Naim are investigating.
In the meantime, as you say Ken, enjoy!

Thanks Nigel. 3rd time lucky I guess. I'm sure you remember that I also simply didn't think this was anything to do with personal preferences. I also found it difficult to believe Naim would release something that was no negatively different from the Naim signature that I fool myself to think I know well from my acquaintance with the brand since late 70's. But other than what I have conjectured, I have no idea what actually made 4.6 work on my NDS this time around...

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by hungryhalibut

Maybe you’ve washed your ears!!

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by ken c

Hungryhalibut posted:
Maybe you’ve washed your ears!!

'washed'? what's that..?

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by nigelb

ken c posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:
Maybe you’ve washed your ears!!
'washed'? what's that..?
enjoy
ken

What did you say?

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by Clive B

Congratulations on getting the music back, Ken.

It is a fairly complicated process and one which fills me with trepidation each time I've done it. Luckily, it worked fine when I did it, but the laptop I used is even older than yours. I used a Dell Inspiron 1525 with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, running Windows Vista! I used a 1m USB cable and a 5m Ethernet cable which has to reach the network switch in the next room.

I'm just about to acquire my mother-in-law's laptop, which is newer, but I wonder if I'll enjoy the same success next time I need to do a firmware update.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by ken c

Clive B posted:
Congratulations on getting the music back, Ken.
It is a fairly complicated process and one which fills me with trepidation each time I've done it. Luckily, it worked fine when I did it, but the laptop I used is even older than yours. I used a Dell Inspiron 1525 with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, running Windows Vista! I used a 1m USB cable and a 5m Ethernet cable which has to reach the network switch in the next room.
I'm just about to acquire my mother-in-law's laptop, which is newer, but I wonder if I'll enjoy the same success next time I need to do a firmware update.

yeah, i hope one of these days I will get to understand a bit of what's going on here. lucky you -- your mother-in-law is letting you 'acquire' her laptop!

Good luck and

enjoy

/ken

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by CDI

I’m an NDS user and was happy but thought I’d try the update - installed it. And it it sounded more detailed tiresome and rather harsh - when I double checked the version on the NDS display in the settings menu it still showed as 4.4? However there was a noticeable sound difference ?

Is the update supposed to do a factory update ? If not how is it done ?

Also -how do you revert back to previous version

Wishing I had not bothered - as the USB and port instructions are very confusing

I will try a shorter usb lead and repeat process shortly and hopefully at least get the NDS to say it is 4.6 rather than what appears be a nightmare partly installed version

Will report back soon -advice on factory reset and reverting to 4.4 appreciated

CDI aka NDS

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by Clive B

CDI,

No, the Updater doesn't do the factory reset. You'll need to do that once the update is complete from the remote control. It tells you how to do this on the last page of the instructions (you did follow it on the instructions, didn't you!). You'll then need to reset any iRadio presets you may have stored.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by CDI

Thanks Clive - done another go and reset as the instructions I hadn’t read to the end

now showing 4.6 so will report back soon after some listening - can’t be as bad as the half installed version !

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by musicfan51

Good Luck CDI

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by J.N.

Great news on getting your music back Ken.

A potentially dirty computer eh?

Rum ol' do, as we say hereabouts.

John.

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by Chag...

Does that really mean that we should perform firmware updates via audiophile grade or compatible laptops, operating systems, mini-USB B connectors and drivers? Could Salisbury provide us then with a list of recommendations? ????

Chag -

Posted on: 02 May 2018 by Mike-B

Interesting to note CDI reports his first install did not show 4.6 in the NDS display. Hopefully CDI comes back with positive news. This is something I’ve always checked but have never had an instance when it did not have a successful update. Whatever I will report it to Naim beta team as something to look at

Posted on: 03 May 2018 by ken c

Mike-B posted:
Hi Ken, I can't believe the USB cable made any difference, it either connects or it doesn't, & I use a 5m Lindy as well & thats been 100% OK over a few years of beta testing. You post does open up some ponderings & for sure I can't disagree with your theories, I too am left wondering if your first install failed to complete or corrupt something. As a matter of course I've always checked the DSP & other info in the NDX display after a new install, it would have been interesting to look at that in your previous install.
....

as I said -- what I did was not based on any deep knowledge or understanding -- it may in fact be purely coincidental that things changed for the better. The fact that I got an error in my 3rd attempt may suggest there was something wrong with the previous NDS updates.

what you say in the highlighted sounds important though. seems to suggest that even though the update process reports successful completion, this may not be enough -- we need to check what version the NDS or whatever device thinks it has.

You say 'ive always checked the DSP' -- how do you do that and what do you compare that against. and what 'other info' do you also check. This could help a lot of people.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 03 May 2018 by MNn

Dear all

Full of expectation I upgraded my NDS from 4.4 to 4.6 yesterday.

I'm a previous owner of a Linn sytem including Komri Aktiv with 8xKlimax Solo, Klimax Kontrol and Klimax DS.
In my opinion Linn started to go in wrong direction when it comes to pace and rhythm so I sold everything and started with Naim old school instead.
It was a good move; I really liked it :-)
Today my primary system consist of, for instance, NDS/555PSDR, NAC52, 6xNAP135CB and DBL active. I also have some Mana Acoustics to get the real old school feeling.

Now I'm concerned, I think 4.6 is moving back towards the Linn path on my system, and this is something that I do not want.
In my opinon this is not in the direction of PRaT.

I really hope this is not the beginning of me moving somewhere else...

Best regards from a worried Naim owner