The 4.6 verdict
Posted by: Jack From Adelaide on 14 April 2018
Well, it is now a week since I updated my NDX to use the new 4.6 firmware. My principle purpose was to try and improve the stuttering I had on TIDAL and I didn't expect anything else. The playback through TIDAL is vastly improved. There, post done. WAIT there's more.
What I didn't expect from the description was any noticeable change in sound quality. I don't have a multi-room system (would that I could afford such a luxury!) but I do have quite a good main music system, which includes an NDX.
What I found after the first few albums was that the bass was tighter and more "tuneful". Then I noticed higher resolution. This became apparent almost immediately because my music room is next door to my Mother In Law's bedroom and I usually have to either use headphones or listen at painfully low levels so as not to disturb her. I was reading a book and kept having my attention drawn to whatever I was playing. The instruments and the singers were literally leaping out of the speakers into the room. It was uncanny. At this very moment I am listening to K. D Lang's "Hymns of the 49th Parallel" on UpNP server (minim server - rendered to WAV) and the piano in Hallelujah has this wonderful dynamic presentation, the loud and quiet passages are rendered more noticeably. K.D.'s voice and her exquisite control of the pacing and phrasing is there to hear. In a way that I have never noticed before. A couple of days ago it was Imogen Heap and her Ellipse album on TIDAL. Again the sense of her being in the room was remarkable. At some points it made the hair on my arms stand up. I have listened to E. Power Biggs playing Handel, the bizarre and ultimately rewarding Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith's "The Kid", Dami Im's new album "I Hear a Song" and Ryan Teagues "Block Boundaries". Every album is surrendering new details and expression that I have never heard before.
For those of you as ancient as me it is equivalent to the first time I put a moving coil cartridge on my turntable: I am rushing to listen to old favourites and new music to see what it sounds like now! In some cases I am discovering that they aren't as well recorded as I thought (Scartaglen's "This Nights Fun" was closed in and you could hear each microphone feed was in a separate acoustic) others are better than I ever suspected.
This upgrade was extremely painful to load (see my recent posts on the issue) but it was well worth the effort. Here is the magic of digital audio: a simple firmware upgrade is like a multi-thousand dollar improvement in your system.
My advice: If you can't load the firmware after an hour of effort, simply take your gear to your dealer and offer them $20 or something to do it for you. It is well worth the effort.
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by GraemeH
Agree Graham. Interested to know what system they used to test the NDS 4.6. My guess is that it was just an afterthought as the NDS is no longer in production and sound quality testing was based on the 272, which does not seem to have received any negative comments from owners.
Only consolation is my NDS still sounds good on v4.4.
I just cannot imagine that naim would think like that myself.
G
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by French Rooster
i guess they tested with alll the streamers.....
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Graham Clarke
Graham, I was at Naim yesterday and we were discussing the firmware updates. As well as testing with Focals, they test with Ovators, and some SL2s that they still have at the factory. They test with DBLs too.
That's good to know but doesn't explain why it sounds so poor on my set up. I spent an hour trying to convince myself that it was better. After said hour I'd actually lost interest in listening to it (which never normally happens). Thinking it was just me, that I might not be in the right frame of mind I left it a few days and tried again. Same result. Got my wife to audition it without any explanations or comments from me and she reached the same conclusion. Went back to 4.4 and all the foot tapping was back.
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by hungryhalibut
The 272 was treated slightly differently as it uses different code, but just as much effort was made with all the streamers. The NDS was most definitely not an afterthought and if anything is given the greatest attention, being the flagship product. I find it surprising to read long term Naim owners suggesting that the company is working in such a slapdash way, with scant regard for customers. The level of detail they have gone into with this firmware update is unbelievably high. It’s far better to work with them to get to the bottom of any issues than simply slagging them off, surely?
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Graham Clarke
And they personally do care about that their customers, that was from Trevor himself and his team. They are trying to unravel what has gone wrong for some, but not others. I would personally be very hopeful that they will get to the bottom of this, based on the commitment I saw. Frustrating for those affected, but need to be patient.
Seems strange that I wasn't told this via support; that they were looking into it. All I got was a polite "thanks for your feedback" type reply.
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Graham Clarke
Agree Graham. Interested to know what system they used to test the NDS 4.6. My guess is that it was just an afterthought as the NDS is no longer in production and sound quality testing was based on the 272, which does not seem to have received any negative comments from owners.
Only consolation is my NDS still sounds good on v4.4.
I just cannot imagine that naim would think like that myself.
G
I would certainly hope that is not the case but it does seem odd that most of the people who don't like it are NDS users. Does make me wonder whether they've optimised for other streamers using things like Tidal as their source when I listen to ripped CDs/hi-res music from a NAS.
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Graham Clarke
The 272 was treated slightly differently as it uses different code, but just as much effort was made with all the streamers. The NDS was most definitely not an afterthought and if anything is given the greatest attention, being the flagship product. I find it surprising to read long term Naim owners suggesting that the company is working in such a slapdash way, with scant regard for customers. The level of detail they have gone into with this firmware update is unbelievably high. It’s far better to work with them to get to the bottom of any issues than simply slagging them off, surely?
Well, I'd hardly say that I have slagged them off, although, yes, I have been critical. That is based on the fact that they didn't seem interested in working with me, which is what I was originally requesting.
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Gazza
Cannot comment on the response from support, but rest assured it has got priority and they are trying to understand this. This has not been just tested at Naim HQ, but most team members have various levels of kit from bottom of the range to the higher level gear at home, for listening tests.
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Graham Clarke
Cannot comment on the response from support, but rest assured it has got priority and they are trying to understand this. This has not been just tested at Naim HQ, but most team members have various levels of kit from bottom of the range to the higher level gear at home, for listening tests.
That's slightly more encouraging but would have been good to hear this from Naim staff rather than the grape vine!
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Jonn
Whether you call it "slagging off" or constructive criticism the fact remains that a number of NDS users have found the V4.6 not to their liking. This from people who have extensive experience of and investment in Naim systems so can soon pick up when something is not sounding right. It may just be a coincidence but three of those that have posted are running high end active systems. So the question remains whether testing was done at this level.
I bought my NDS following a listening test. I'm happy with v4.4 and of course Naim are under no obligation to do any updates as long as the original functionality remains and is fit for purpose.
It seems to me that the comments that have been made are meant to be informative and Naim can choose either to investigate or not.
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by ken c
Ken, looking forward to your impressions with another NDS-based system. It's interesting that there are varied opinions on this update, especially with the NDS.
As it turns out, not as easy as I thought, Arun. I contacted 3 dealers and unfortunately they have moved on their NDSs to make room for the upcoming ND555. So I guess I will have to find a friendly 'forumite' who is happy with NDS4.6, who is close by (cant drive long distances) and also happy for me to come over and have a listen.
Anyhow, I am back on 4.4 now and the draw is back - I actually had a long listening session last night -- and the somewhat false sound artefacts I was hearing with 4.6 were now not apparent -- replaced with immersive involving sound. the difference is quite stark.
I am extremely relieved that 4.4 is still an option for me -- else I would simply stop listening to my NDS source.
No change to my NAT01 -- nor LP12 - both of still sounds absolutely fab, so, nothing wrong with my system.
I still continue to rack my brain to understand why this update didn't work at all for me -- but I suspect Naim support apparatus may be best positioned to get to the bottom of this. As I said before, I simply do not believe this is a "one mans meat is another mans ...." issue.
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by musicfan51
Whether you call it "slagging off" or constructive criticism the fact remains that a number of NDS users have found the V4.6 not to their liking. This from people who have extensive experience of and investment in Naim systems so can soon pick up when something is not sounding right. It may just be a coincidence but three of those that have posted are running high end active systems. So the question remains whether testing was done at this level.
I bought my NDS following a listening test. I'm happy with v4.4 and of course Naim are under no obligation to do any updates as long as the original functionality remains and is fit for purpose.
It seems to me that the comments that have been made are meant to be informative and Naim can choose either to investigate or not.
Are there any differences in early run NDS streamers and ones from later on . Mine is only about 26 months old . Would this effect the sound in anyway , as to date of purchase ?
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Jonn
Mines only 18 months old so I don’t think v4.6 perceived sound differences are due to age of NDS.
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by musicfan51
Mines only 18 months old so I don’t think v4.6 perceived sound differences are due to age of NDS.
Just throwing stuff out there ! It is a real puzzle !
Posted on: 27 April 2018 by Steve Crouch
Ken, I’m with you on this one. Active Naim Systems with Naim speakers do not seem to like this ‘upgrade’. Similar effect to me when I tried an upgraded Linear power supply to my UnitiServe: the musicality was sucked out and replaced with ‘HiFi’.
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by Richieroo
Hi I don't understand this .... from my perspective the 4.6 on my NDS was definitely better .... and I will be sticking with it. The player seems to have a wider bandwidth and a wider soundstage.... Bass is definitely better more tuneful in the low frequencies below about 40hz..... it's great.
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by Bert Schurink
Hi I don't understand this .... from my perspective the 4.6 on my NDS was definitely better .... and I will be sticking with it. The player seems to have a wider bandwidth and a wider soundstage.... Bass is definitely better more tuneful in the low frequencies below about 40hz..... it's great.
Hope my dealer can soon help me with the install and can still enjoy the improved sound before the ND555 arrives. Might be also already a audible step in the tonal direction of this new beast.
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by jon_jh
First impressions, after a couple of hours.
Wow, what a massive change from 4.3 and 4.4.
I was quite sceptical about updating to 4.6, however...
Naim have made the NDS even better!
The superlatives...
Velvety, dark, seductive, flowing, shimmering, floating, cohesive, ethereal, rhythmic, expansive, enveloping, deeper. Higher yet lower, faster yet slower, rounder yet sharper, seared and slow roast, complex yet simple...just better!
Thank you Naim
Jon
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by DaveBk
I also much prefer 4.6 on my NDS, so am fascinated by the split opinions here. It would be interesting to run a poll to see whether there is any statistically significant correlation between 4.4 vs 4.6 and Active vs Passive, Naim speaker generations, Focal speakers etc. I run NDS->552->300DR->Focal Scala Utiopa with SL cables throughout and have never heard my system sound this good.
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by ken c
anyone here 'close' to Herts and happy with NDS4.6 willing to allow me to come over and have a listen, please...
enjoy...
ken
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by Peakman
Late to the party as usual, yesterday evening I finally plucked up courage to update the 272 to 4.6, having been deterred by the various tales of woe in some of the other threads. Fortunately all went well and, so I thought, this gave me just enough time to sample a few tracks to see if I could hear a difference. Three hours later all was dark outside and I realised I had spent the whole thoroughly enjoyable evening completely immersed in music. Others have done a great job of describing the detailed effects of the DSP upgrade, but to me it was the increased connection with the music that mattered most. So a big thank-you to Naim and those beta testers involved for this remarkable free upgrade.
It seems that nearly all 272 owners and most NDX (and ND5XS?) owners are happy with 4.6 which makes the divided opinions amongst Uniti and especially NDS owners all the more surprising. Obviously, the rest of the system, the room, the type of music etc. have a role to play but I still think that personal taste is a very significant factor. Last autumn I spent more than an hour comparing ATC 19s in active and passive form, going through my selection of tracks on a memory stick. There was another listener sitting next to me throughout and at the end I was ready to spring for the active 19s (but held off pending an audition of the 40As) whereas he strongly preferred the passive setup. Same music, same room, same electronics, just different ears. I remember, too, after an nDAC update that significantly changed the presentation, beneficially to my ears, by no means all owners preferred the new software. At least Naim gives the option of easily reverting to the previous version so no one need be worse off after the update. This is in contrast to e.g. Apple where reversing an OS or iOS update can be far from straightforward or easy.
Roger
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by ken c
anyone here 'close' to Herts and happy with NDS4.6 willing to allow me to come over and have a listen, please...
enjoy...
ken
doesn't have to be that 'close' ...
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by musicfan51
Hi I don't understand this .... from my perspective the 4.6 on my NDS was definitely better .... and I will be sticking with it. The player seems to have a wider bandwidth and a wider soundstage.... Bass is definitely better more tuneful in the low frequencies below about 40hz..... it's great.
Great to hear you say that !
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by musicfan51
I also much prefer 4.6 on my NDS, so am fascinated by the split opinions here. It would be interesting to run a poll to see whether there is any statistically significant correlation between 4.4 vs 4.6 and Active vs Passive, Naim speaker generations, Focal speakers etc. I run NDS->552->300DR->Focal Scala Utiopa with SL cables throughout and have never heard my system sound this good.
I suggested a poll too DaveBK. Will it happen ?
Posted on: 28 April 2018 by DaveBk
anyone here 'close' to Herts and happy with NDS4.6 willing to allow me to come over and have a listen, please...
enjoy...
ken
doesn't have to be that 'close' ...
enjoy
ken
I’m just outside Milton Keynes. Is that close?
