Buying a CDP is outdated?

Richard Dane posted:

Lindsay, yup, it also applies to Classical CDs, although it's still  very much WIP for me as far as ripping my classical CDs is concerned .  Some are easy to rip, but others need quite extensive editing of the metadata - something that can really only easily be done by computer - so I edit them on a PC and then put them on the external Usb drive that holds downloads, Hi-re stuff etc..  I think for anyone with a CD collection consisting primarily of classical music, a CD player is still a good idea unless you have a LOT of spare time to carefully rip your CDs and edit metadata.  So many CDs have more than a single work, and often with multiple composers, conductors, so whatever you are using to rip/serve classical music, it's often a lot more involved than with other genres.

iTunes does a decent enough job of auto-sorting classical music for us. We can find anything by piece, composer or conductor pretty much instantly. We're not interested in the other details in meta-data. Prefer just to listen to the recording. And there is way more information about just about every recording available online for free. Life is too short to get upset about meta-data.

Patrick Lam posted:

Hi folks,  

As titled, is there anybody who is willing to spend funds in purchasing a CDP?  Is it so stupid in doing so?  Will a smart consumer buy a network player instead of a CD player?  My girlfriend likes listening CDs and wonder if I should buy a CDP to her or a network player? If I buy a network player to her, then, I have to rip all her favourite CDs.  This will give me extra works.   

Please advise me.

Cheers,

Patrick

Do you wish to be a "smart consumer" or simply listen to the music that you like ? I don't have a streamer, I listen to CDs and vinyl and I'm quite happy with what I have. Plenty of second hand Cds to be had for next to nothing - it's a free world, you don't have to have the latest gizmo to be a "smart consumer".

SamClaus posted:

- it's a free world, you don't have to have the latest gizmo to be a "smart consumer".

All my streamers are now discontinued products, luckily they are Naim so I still feel smart and give them that 'just out of the box' stroke with a feather duster

To use Naim’s description, you are now ‘legacy’.

Patrick, Are you really asking, 'Should I buy a streaming thingy to supplement my CDS3?'

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Apparently both are being dropped at end of June - I read on social media - so it must be true

Not what I heard from a very good source. Time will tell I guess! Either you or I will have an "I told you so" the end of June. 

ATC have recently announced a new version of their CD player/DAC/preamp so not all companies have dropped CD players.

My wife likes to borrow CDs from the library and the legality/morality of ripping them must be doubtful.  Certainly, I'd feel obliged to delete the rips as soon as she returned them.  And I have a recently purchased Pat Metheny CD which plays fine on the CD Player but won't rip or even play on my computer.  It's either faulty or is copy-protected.  Overall I don't regret hanging on to my CD5XS when I got the 272, but I'm not sure I'd purchase a new one now.

Roger

Hi Patrick, 

I use a Network server from Innuos with built in CD transport/Ripper. What are the benefits?

1. Sound quality. The ripped CD is stored on a SSD and plays from an internal memory cache, so there’re  no motors, stepper motors and servos whirring away, putting loads of noise into the system. My server SQ is better than a reasonably high-end analog system in terms of every quality you care to compare, including soundstage, imaging, resolution, noise, warmth, listener involvement, PRAT. 

2. Convenience. Take a CD, push it into the slot, where its grabbed, loaded, ripped and ejected in 2 or 3 minutes. The system loads all the CD stored meta data then goes to several Net-based databases to add more information....so there’s a lot more information available about the artists and the recordings than on a regular CD, all stored automatically with zero effort.

3. User interface......The system supports really nice user interfaces and library management systems like iPeng or Roon. Like an album? Have your system suggest similar artists then simply click to listen.  Don’t feel like listening to a whole album? Have your system play random tracks from your collection.  Really don’t like a particular track? Dustbin. 

4. Manage libraries....you can manage your ripped CD collection and any other library. The system will consolidate the content of several libraries so you no longer have to worry about where a particular track is stored. 

5. Internet Streaming....get transparent ‘Native’ access to Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz etc. With the right network switches and cables and CD quality files, the SQ is indistinguishable from a regular CD and in most cases probably better. Like a particular artist? Listen to their other albums via Tidal or Qobuz. Like 2 or 3 particular albums....store them in your favourites so you can simply click and play via your user interface. All the meta data is similarly a click away. 

6. Meta data....listening to an album and want to read about the artist or the track? Click either to see the stored meta data. Want to know what other albums and which other artists your artist has performed with?  Just scroll down....its all there

7. Back-up.  Just hook up a USB disc drive to the streamer port. Back-up of all your files, playlists and favorites is automatic

8. Network access.....Want a bit of variety or to discover new music?  Select from hundreds of channels on network radio. I particularly like a Swiss Classical Channel that play a huge range of classics.  Want to stick to a particular genre?  Select from hundreds of playlists available on Tidal and Qobuz.

In summary....are you making a compromise on anything by using a network server? Quite the opposite.....CDPs are noisy devices that never fully delivered on digital’s SQ potential. Too much noise. Carefully implemented, digital has the potential to sound better than high quality analog, but the word ‘carefully’ rules out noise generators like CDPs. 

Blackmorec posted:

Hi Patrick, 

I use a Network server from Innuos with built in CD transport/Ripper. What are the benefits?

1. Sound quality. The ripped CD is stored on a SSD and plays from an internal memory cache, so there’re  no motors, stepper motors and servos whirring away, putting loads of noise into the system. My server SQ is better than a reasonably high-end analog system in terms of every quality you care to compare, including soundstage, imaging, resolution, noise, warmth, listener involvement, PRAT. 

2. Convenience. Take a CD, push it into the slot, where its grabbed, loaded, ripped and ejected in 2 or 3 minutes. The system loads all the CD stored meta data then goes to several Net-based databases to add more information....so there’s a lot more information available about the artists and the recordings than on a regular CD, all stored automatically with zero effort.

3. User interface......The system supports really nice user interfaces and library management systems like iPeng or Roon. Like an album? Have your system suggest similar artists then simply click to listen.  Don’t feel like listening to a whole album? Have your system play random tracks from your collection.  Really don’t like a particular track? Dustbin. 

4. Manage libraries....you can manage your ripped CD collection and any other library. The system will consolidate the content of several libraries so you no longer have to worry about where a particular track is stored. 

5. Internet Streaming....get transparent ‘Native’ access to Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz etc. With the right network switches and cables and CD quality files, the SQ is indistinguishable from a regular CD and in most cases probably better. Like a particular artist? Listen to their other albums via Tidal or Qobuz. Like 2 or 3 particular albums....store them in your favourites so you can simply click and play via your user interface. All the meta data is similarly a click away. 

6. Meta data....listening to an album and want to read about the artist or the track? Click either to see the stored meta data. Want to know what other albums and which other artists your artist has performed with?  Just scroll down....its all there

7. Back-up.  Just hook up a USB disc drive to the streamer port. Back-up of all your files, playlists and favorites is automatic

8. Network access.....Want a bit of variety or to discover new music?  Select from hundreds of channels on network radio. I particularly like a Swiss Classical Channel that play a huge range of classics.  Want to stick to a particular genre?  Select from hundreds of playlists available on Tidal and Qobuz.

In summary....are you making a compromise on anything by using a network server? Quite the opposite.....CDPs are noisy devices that never fully delivered on digital’s SQ potential. Too much noise. Carefully implemented, digital has the potential to sound better than high quality analog, but the word ‘carefully’ rules out noise generators like CDPs. 

Yes OK, but why do you actually like it?

best

David

(cf What have the Romans ever done for us?)

Perol posted:

I was hesitating buying a cd player back in mid 80'ies

Now I would not be without, same with turntable 

Never tried to rip anything

But when you do and when you try a decent streamer, I reckon you would not be without.

winkyincanada posted:

We can't imagine going back to physical media. We have no room nor inclination to clutter our living space with boxes of shiny plastic discs, just for some sort of retro-buzz.

I have about 700 CDs and 700 LPs and absolutely no clutter from them. They're kept alphabetically on quality furniture shelving that integrates handsomely into my listening room and also act as sound diffusors on my front wall. When I'm done listening to one, I return it to its sleeve and put it back on the shelf. A simple process that gives me no sort of retro-buzz, and I enjoy reading the actual credits and liner notes. 

"Clutter" for me would arise from reliance on a smart or i device to access my music library. Keeping it charged, updated or simply the general distraction it poses that might divert from my primary purpose of dedicated time to be engrossed in music. Clutter is what you choose to make or not make of it.

As long as I can hear music I'll always have a CDP and TT. Nothing outdated about either. Naim's own decision to discontinue some CDPs seems irrelevant to the topic. There are numerous manufacturers out there still offering high end CDPs. Many of these upscale, offer a variety of digital outputs and inputs, and can be used as dedicated DACs. So you can have the best of both worlds if inclined; spin a CD or stream from the same box.

JRHardee posted:

I met Ivor Tiefenbrunn a year or so back. He told me he only uses a streamer these days.

Interesting that even the creator of a World-beating £15k+ record player - one that would presumably cost him nothing to own - can’t be bothered with it anymore 

David Hendon posted:

Blackmorec posted:

Hi Patrick, 

I use a Network server from Innuos with built in CD transport/Ripper. What are the benefits?

1. Sound quality. The ripped CD is stored on a SSD and plays from an internal memory cache, so there’re  no motors, stepper motors and servos whirring away, putting loads of noise into the system. My server SQ is better than a reasonably high-end analog system in terms of every quality you care to compare, including soundstage, imaging, resolution, noise, warmth, listener involvement, PRAT. 

2. Convenience. Take a CD, push it into the slot, where its grabbed, loaded, ripped and ejected in 2 or 3 minutes. The system loads all the CD stored meta data then goes to several Net-based databases to add more information....so there’s a lot more information available about the artists and the recordings than on a regular CD, all stored automatically with zero effort.

3. User interface......The system supports really nice user interfaces and library management systems like iPeng or Roon. Like an album? Have your system suggest similar artists then simply click to listen.  Don’t feel like listening to a whole album? Have your system play random tracks from your collection.  Really don’t like a particular track? Dustbin. 

4. Manage libraries....you can manage your ripped CD collection and any other library. The system will consolidate the content of several libraries so you no longer have to worry about where a particular track is stored. 

5. Internet Streaming....get transparent ‘Native’ access to Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz etc. With the right network switches and cables and CD quality files, the SQ is indistinguishable from a regular CD and in most cases probably better. Like a particular artist? Listen to their other albums via Tidal or Qobuz. Like 2 or 3 particular albums....store them in your favourites so you can simply click and play via your user interface. All the meta data is similarly a click away. 

6. Meta data....listening to an album and want to read about the artist or the track? Click either to see the stored meta data. Want to know what other albums and which other artists your artist has performed with?  Just scroll down....its all there

7. Back-up.  Just hook up a USB disc drive to the streamer port. Back-up of all your files, playlists and favorites is automatic

8. Network access.....Want a bit of variety or to discover new music?  Select from hundreds of channels on network radio. I particularly like a Swiss Classical Channel that play a huge range of classics.  Want to stick to a particular genre?  Select from hundreds of playlists available on Tidal and Qobuz.

In summary....are you making a compromise on anything by using a network server? Quite the opposite.....CDPs are noisy devices that never fully delivered on digital’s SQ potential. Too much noise. Carefully implemented, digital has the potential to sound better than high quality analog, but the word ‘carefully’ rules out noise generators like CDPs. 

Yes OK, but why do you actually like it?

best

David

(cf What have the Romans ever done for us?)

Good question!  What I really like is the utterly beguiling, fault-free,  completely unfatIguing and highly involving nature of the sound.  Finally delivers what recorded music has been promising for half a century.

I use a good DVD transport with a Hugo and have no interest in ripping my large and still-growing CD collection.  Sometimes the CD5X gets a workout too.  

Yes, it is outdated. Unlike vinyl.

It is strange but my CD 'collection' has grown far faster having the convenience of a streamer (and ripper) than it ever did when I had a CDP. This phenomenon is also partially due to now having access to Tidal for music discovery and access to a big river to fish out those special finds. No more racks of unplayed and unloved CDs.

It is all so easy and convenient these days. Yes, I do need to keep my iPad charged, but if I forget, I just plug it in and away I go.

when your cant be arsed with servers/not working all you have to do is pop a cd in ... i'll never sell my naim Cd player at a potentially poor price!

sjw posted:

when your cant be arsed with servers/not working all you have to do is pop a cd in ... i'll never sell my naim Cd player at a potentially poor price!

There’s wisdom in that sjw. I wish I had a decent CD player right now as my broken NDS is visiting a health spa in Salisbury for the next 3-5 weeks 

sjw posted:

when your cant be arsed with servers/not working all you have to do is pop a cd in ... i'll never sell my naim Cd player at a potentially poor price!

also when your cant be arsed with spelling and punctuation eh

nigelb posted:

It is strange but my CD 'collection' has grown far faster having the convenience of a streamer (and ripper) than it ever did when I had a CDP. This phenomenon is also partially due to now having access to Tidal for music discovery and access to a big river to fish out those special finds. No more racks of unplayed and unloved CDs.

It is all so easy and convenient these days. Yes, I do need to keep my iPad charged, but if I forget, I just plug it in and away I go.

 Nigel, exactly the same here I’ve never bought as much music so cheap second hand.Tidal is a good reference point to listen to music prior to purchase I also listen to a wider genre of music since adopting an all streaming set up.

sjw posted:

when your cant be arsed with servers/not working all you have to do is pop a cd in ... i'll never sell my naim Cd player at a potentially poor price!

If the servers not working (almost never for me) I’ll get a record out.  Sometimes I’ll get a record out anyone.

I may be weird though... but liking (local) streaming and networking while liking vinyl but not having the time for CDs kind of sums me up.  I guess the way I see it: vinyl gives me something different, where CD and local streaming are (to me) identical “sound” with CDs just being 8nconvinient... but each to their own.

winkyincanada posted:

sjw posted:

when your cant be arsed with servers/not working all you have to do is pop a cd in ... i'll never sell my naim Cd player at a potentially poor price!

also when your cant be arsed with spelling and punctuation eh

Steady on Winky.

Now come on Winkyincanada, there's no need to be arsie!

I have streamers all over the house fed from a UnitiCore, but I still went out and bought an ex-demo CDX2. I always enjoy the theatre associated with swinging open the door and clamping the CD with the puck. It sounds lovely and it is a joy to use. OK I am lucky enough not to have to choose one or the other but I would never diss someone who prefers to be able to play CDs the traditional way, even though I spend most of my Naim Forum time in the Streaming Audio room.

best

David

A question I'm asking myself lately given my CDX gave up the ghost last week (yes, I've played around with the puck and that did help for a while). What does one do with a dead CDX? A real  shame considering most of it's life was spent in storage. I'm thinking of getting an Oppo 205 if they do another production run. I am on the waiting list.

You send the dead CDX back to Salisbury for a life transfusion and then you either keep it gratefully or sell it....

Best

David