Buying a CDP is outdated?

leni v posted:

GregU posted:

I am old. And with age comes wisdom.  Everyone here thinks this is about sound quality.  It is not about sound quality.  It is about your girlfriend.  Your girlfriend wants a CD player.  She probably does not care about sound quality.  Get her a CD player.  Get a cheap DVD player that you can use as a transport that you plug into the DAC of your network player.  She can play CDs.  You have a network player for serious listening.  You are happy.

Thats very patronizing and chauvinistic.

While the way @GregU writes is perhaps patronising and chauvinistic ... the sentiment isn't.  To make a relationship work takes compromise ... it would be more chauvinistic to be dictatorial and say "we have a streamer and THAT is the way you must listen to music!"

I'm sure many a wife has equally gone "Yes Dear" when a husband declares how much improved the sound is when he's spent the new car fund on a set of cables.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I disagree - it is simply the way to peace and happiness. Like it or not, women rule. Maybe that’s why many men are chauvinistic pigs, asserting their “masculinity” to try to ignore this fact. The way if the world seems split in two in this, those who recognise the above fact, consciously or otherwise,  open acceptance often coming with the benefit of experience as GregU alluded, and those who treat women like pieces of meat.

Of course declaring that "women rule" and suggesting men have to put up with it isn't exactly non-chauvinistic (though I will give [@mention:41551091830475636] the benefit of the doubt and suggest he was being a bit humorous.

Eloise posted:

leni v posted:

GregU posted:

I am old. And with age comes wisdom.  Everyone here thinks this is about sound quality.  It is not about sound quality.  It is about your girlfriend.  Your girlfriend wants a CD player.  She probably does not care about sound quality.  Get her a CD player.  Get a cheap DVD player that you can use as a transport that you plug into the DAC of your network player.  She can play CDs.  You have a network player for serious listening.  You are happy.

Thats very patronizing and chauvinistic.

While the way @GregU writes is perhaps patronising and chauvinistic ... the sentiment isn't.  To make a relationship work takes compromise ... it would be more chauvinistic to be dictatorial and say "we have a streamer and THAT is the way you must listen to music!"

I'm sure many a wife has equally gone "Yes Dear" when a husband declares how much improved the sound is when he's spent the new car fund on a set of cables.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I disagree - it is simply the way to peace and happiness. Like it or not, women rule. Maybe that’s why many men are chauvinistic pigs, asserting their “masculinity” to try to ignore this fact. The way if the world seems split in two in this, those who recognise the above fact, consciously or otherwise,  open acceptance often coming with the benefit of experience as GregU alluded, and those who treat women like pieces of meat.

Of course declaring that "women rule" and suggesting men have to put up with it isn't exactly non-chauvinistic (though I will give [@mention:41551091830475636] the benefit of the doubt and suggest he was being a bit humorous.

Thank you - and I did, quite genuinely, mean it in the nicest possible way

Whatever pros and cons of CD one might have, we should factor in ever-dwindling CD sales and ever-shrinking shelves with CDs in "CD" shops. We are not far from the day when some new album will not be issued on CD at all. CD looks like unloved child now and it will be the streaming who killed the CD star.

rmatosev posted:

Whatever pros and cons of CD one might have, we should factor in ever-dwindling CD sales and ever-shrinking shelves with CDs in "CD" shops. We are not far from the day when some new album will not be issued on CD at all. CD looks like unloved child now and it will be the streaming who killed the CD star.

I think this is actually incorrect. CD sales are not declining very fast if at all and the fact that High Street shops don't stock many titles is more about the decline of that sales outlet in the face of competition from the on-line retailers. You can check what is going on by googling CD sales 2017 for example.

I think the imminent demise of CD, like the demise of FM, is over-stated and not something to worry about currently.

best

David

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

When I needed to replace a CD player a few years ago, I looked around and decided that though CD may not yet be dead, straming was clearly the future medium, so went for a streamer instead - and have never looked back. Less to intrfere with the signal, access to highr resolutions, no periodic replacement or repairs as mechanisms wear, reduced storage space, etc etc. So, in my view, the answer is emphatically yes, CD is outdated.

Nah, just don’t get this ... CDP and streaming are intrinsically linked... a media server is effectively a CDP transport, and the streamer the CDP interface, and the DAC is  the DAC. Sure a streamer can play local CDs or remotel CDs, as well as hidef media so it offers greater flexibility, and a streamer can optionally support web stream services, but effectively a streamer and it supporting components is effectively a variant CDP...or another way of looking at it a CDP is a simplified streamer... if you don’t need or want the extra features a streamer offers the traditional CDP is a simpler variant..... they are siblings of the same family.

Simon - agreed. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Simon is drawing parallels between what the various things do, not how they do it. If you read his post with that in mind, it makes perfect sense. 

Indeed his post makes perfect sense.  

David Hendon posted:

rmatosev posted:

Whatever pros and cons of CD one might have, we should factor in ever-dwindling CD sales and ever-shrinking shelves with CDs in "CD" shops. We are not far from the day when some new album will not be issued on CD at all. CD looks like unloved child now and it will be the streaming who killed the CD star.

I think this is actually incorrect. CD sales are not declining very fast if at all and the fact that High Street shops don't stock many titles is more about the decline of that sales outlet in the face of competition from the on-line retailers. You can check what is going on by googling CD sales 2017 for example.

I think the imminent demise of CD, like the demise of FM, is over-stated and not something to worry about currently.

best

David

Blimey I’m agreeing with everyone today

David Hendon posted:

Now come on Winkyincanada, there's no need to be arsie!

I have streamers all over the house fed from a UnitiCore, but I still went out and bought an ex-demo CDX2. I always enjoy the theatre associated with swinging open the door and clamping the CD with the puck. It sounds lovely and it is a joy to use.

best

David

Just got to get that Thorens out the loft David and then your audiophile ritual will be complete!

David Hendon posted:

I think this is actually incorrect. CD sales are not declining very fast if at all and the fact that High Street shops don't stock many titles is more about the decline of that sales outlet in the face of competition from the on-line retailers. You can check what is going on by googling CD sales 2017 for example.

I think the imminent demise of CD, like the demise of FM, is over-stated and not something to worry about currently.

I might disagree a bit on that David,  Album music sales in UK are down,  I don't have details on individual digital track purchases or how it shows against streaming,  but I suspect streaming is the growth area & also the music buying public are in decline, demise,  or just no longer buying.     

UK album sales (vinyl, digital (download) & CD) since 2008 are halved by 2016.    CD (this thread subject) fell 11.7% in 2016.  Surprising to me is digital (download) albums are down 29.6% to their lowest point since 2009.        The only growth area is vinyl with a growth of 52.6%,  but even so its total sales were only 3.2m & in the grand scheme of things is insignificant.

I believe a similar trend is seem in all other significant music sales markets in USA, Europe & far East ,  but also that UK is declining the least.  

If I was going to do vinyl again Lindsay, I would probably buy a new Rega or even an LP12, but I'm not tempted at all. I still recall the cartoon which was in HFi News, but someone posted here, where two men are standing in front of a turntable and one asks the other "Was it the expense or the inconvenience that first attracted you to vinyl?" I relate to that question!

best

David

Mike

The graphic doesn't show in the Forum but did come through by email. I'm not disagreeing that CD sales are down since 2008. What I am saying is that they are not declining particularly fast right now and I don't think you can use a graphic about album sales to support an argument that one format in particular is declining.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

If I was going to do vinyl again Lindsay, I would probably buy a new Rega or even an LP12, but I'm not tempted at all. I still recall the cartoon which was in HFi News, but someone posted here, where two men are standing in front of a turntable and one asks the other "Was it the expense or the inconvenience that first attracted you to vinyl?" I relate to that question!

best

David

I don’t hold with the expense argument really.  I think you’d find that a Rega RP8 would see off either off your digital sources although of course any judgements on the relative merits are entirely subjective.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Got a used CDS3 last year for an amazing price. There's some amazing bargains out there. Been having a blast with it. Cd's are so cheap these days, it;s like buying vinyl in the 90's. That format was also " super outdated " back then. Look where we are today....?

If you like the convenience of streaming, I believe there's some very high quality stuff to buy from Naim or Linn. However, you have to invest time in ripping your albums, or money (relatively a lot actually) in getting high res files. For me the streaming process is a bit less engaging than using physical formats and I really like the album format. Others like to skip between songs a lot, if that's the case streaming is def more convenient. 

I only use Spotify with Sonos connect amps in my kitchen and bathroom. One of the drawbacks is so called "option paralysis", where I don't know what to choose if faced with an empty "search" field in Spotify. Sometimes I have trouble with my wifi, beacause I live in a large/high house. I like that I'm not dependent on wifi networks when I'm doing a serious listening session but for me what's most important is that I'm not looking at a screen when I'm listening to music. These days, phones and ipads (and my computer at work) demand so much of my attention already. When I put on a CD or a record, I like to sit back, close my eyes and listen with a nice cup of tea or something and enjoy. Sometimes I read a little in the sleevenotes or just look at the photo's in a gatefold cover of a nice record.  I doubt I could have that same experience with an ipad or iphone on my lap, I would maybe be tempted to look at FB or my email (or the  Naim forum...)

I normally rip everything to the Core but use the OPPO 205 for occasional Audio disc spinning including some of those legacy DVDAs I still have. I also bought a pile of new CDs from Chandos earlier in the week - £2.50 each with some box sets for a fiver. Bargain. Reminds me of all those 99p Decca and EMI lps I bought when everyone flocked to CD

winkyincanada posted:

SamClaus posted:

winkyincanada posted:

We can't imagine going back to physical media. We have no room nor inclination to clutter our living space with boxes of shiny plastic discs, just for some sort of retro-buzz.

I clutter my living space with CDs, LPs, and books. That's how I prefer it to be - and it helps with the acoustics. I don't really wish to live in a bare room, straight out of House and Garden. I'm not sure what you mean by "retro-buzz"...

Our living space isn't bare, but there is still no room for CDs...

By retro-buzz, I mean the notion that the use of CDs or LPs is appealing because of how it evokes a bygone age. Like a vintage car or an antique piece of furniture. Each to their own.....

Well, for me, and for most other people, it doesn't evoke a bygone age. They are books, CDs and LPs I acquired over the years, and which I've learnt to live with. A bit like living with a dog...

Mike, I've made a small edit and hopefully the chart in your post should now show up.

SamClaus posted:

winkyincanada posted:

SamClaus posted:

winkyincanada posted:

We can't imagine going back to physical media. We have no room nor inclination to clutter our living space with boxes of shiny plastic discs, just for some sort of retro-buzz.

I clutter my living space with CDs, LPs, and books. That's how I prefer it to be - and it helps with the acoustics. I don't really wish to live in a bare room, straight out of House and Garden. I'm not sure what you mean by "retro-buzz"...

Our living space isn't bare, but there is still no room for CDs...

By retro-buzz, I mean the notion that the use of CDs or LPs is appealing because of how it evokes a bygone age. Like a vintage car or an antique piece of furniture. Each to their own.....

Well, for me, and for most other people, it doesn't evoke a bygone age. They are books, CDs and LPs I acquired over the years, and which I've learnt to live with. A bit like living with a dog...

For me playing a CD, Reel to Reel, VHF or LP means that I’m not staring at screens after looking at a VDU for my job for most of the day. At pushing 60 I’m probaly retro myself

Richard Dane posted:

Mike, I've made a small edit and hopefully the chart in your post should now show up.

.....   hmm  strange,  it was OK at my end,  I had changed the size & would not have left it had it not shown up for me    .........   thanks anyhow 

ravenswood; i'm glad to see you totally agree with what i wrote 

SamClaus posted:

winkyincanada posted:

SamClaus posted:

winkyincanada posted:

We can't imagine going back to physical media. We have no room nor inclination to clutter our living space with boxes of shiny plastic discs, just for some sort of retro-buzz.

I clutter my living space with CDs, LPs, and books. That's how I prefer it to be - and it helps with the acoustics. I don't really wish to live in a bare room, straight out of House and Garden. I'm not sure what you mean by "retro-buzz"...

Our living space isn't bare, but there is still no room for CDs...

By retro-buzz, I mean the notion that the use of CDs or LPs is appealing because of how it evokes a bygone age. Like a vintage car or an antique piece of furniture. Each to their own.....

Well, for me, and for most other people, it doesn't evoke a bygone age. They are books, CDs and LPs I acquired over the years, and which I've learnt to live with. A bit like living with a dog...

"bygone age" might not be what I'm looking for here. I guess I mean the notion that people stick with LPs/CDs because they like the physical interaction with the media; or the "simplicity" (I find computer-based to be simpler); and/or the look of their collection in their racks/cabinets. I understand these notion have appeal, but just not for me. I classified the reasons as "retro-buzz". Call it what you like.

rmatosev posted:

Whatever pros and cons of CD one might have, we should factor in ever-dwindling CD sales and ever-shrinking shelves with CDs in "CD" shops. We are not far from the day when some new album will not be issued on CD at all. CD looks like unloved child now and it will be the streaming who killed the CD star.

Any small company could create a CD production run at any time.  It's cheap.  It's easy.  It doesn't need huge economies of scale.  Even if there's the smallest demand, someone will fill that demand.  Streaming is not its successor - for better or for worse, it doesn't look like it will ever have one.

I suppose it also depends on the type of music you listen to. If you're into classical music - which I am - then you know that the number of works is, if not exactly finite, at least more limited. New rock/popular bands seem to appear every day, literally everywhere on the planet -  in that case streaming might be fully justified - but Beethoven is unlikely to add another string quartet to his catalogue. So if you have them all, you may want a new version from time to time - but you're not going to get rid of your CDs, unless you're really pushed for space, or unless you're starting from nothing, which is believe is the case with the OP.

Richard Dane posted:

EDO, when you say "played around with the puck", did you replace it with a new one?

If the mech really has died, then first check with Naim whether they have any VAM1205 replacements - it's worth a try as things can turn up.  Failing that, give someone like Darran at Class A a call, as he may be able to advise further.

Richard, I did try a new/old stock puck with more pliable gaskets, soaking the old gaskets in hot water/ArmorAll and some new gasket material. I'm also in the US - contacted AV Options but they are not servicing CD players with VAM1205's - no stock.

I'd say that CDs are readily available online from many sites, including Amazon and Elusive Disc.  If I'm looking for new releases, I often go to local stores in the Vancouver area called London Drugs - essentially a pharmacy superstore that carry many products including stereo systems, computers & a large CD collection.  I really haven't had problems finding what I'm after.  To play them, in my main system I have an EMM Labs XDS1 SACD/CD player.  I also rip many of them to my Core.

e d o posted:

Richard Dane posted:

EDO, when you say "played around with the puck", did you replace it with a new one?

If the mech really has died, then first check with Naim whether they have any VAM1205 replacements - it's worth a try as things can turn up.  Failing that, give someone like Darran at Class A a call, as he may be able to advise further.

Richard, I did try a new/old stock puck with more pliable gaskets, soaking the old gaskets in hot water/ArmorAll and some new gasket material. I'm also in the US - contacted AV Options but they are not servicing CD players with VAM1205's - no stock.

Thanks EDO.  If all else fails you could try a Clamp 5 (as used on the VAM1202 mech'd machines) although you have to be very careful using this on the older mechs as the doubled up magnets can tear apart in some cases.

As for the VAM1205, it has been long out of production and unavailable.  I think Naim probably had the last genuine new units but I guess they have now been exhausted. As the official channels will only ever fit a new mech (or a refurb where a refurb program is in place), you're left with independent techs who might be able to scavenge a s/h mech that's still working from a Philips machine or else fit a replacement laser to your existing mech if that's what has failed.  I can't offer you any recommendations here - it would anyway fall outside of forum AUP - but I'm sure you'll find some options with a bit of a search online.