UnitiCore output sound quality

The Core was developed with Upnp and I found at first that Spdif was better. When I sorted my networkout with a Cisco switch and Melco cables, the Upnp was much better.

Hello - maybe one of you would know the answer to this question.  I have a Core with a 2TB SSD that is starting to fill up.  In retrospect, I should have bought a 4TB SSD.  If I go ahead with the 4TB SSD, how difficult will it be to transfer everything from the 2TB to the 4TB drive, without losing anything on the 2TB drive?  I imagine that the 4TB drive will have to formatted first by the Core, and then a transfer can be done.  I wonder if I shouldn't hire a computer pro (or geek) to do the job.

Thanks.

It seems the UnitiCore sounds better as network storage, a fancy NAS, rather than a renderer through Spdif. The question then becomes, does the UnitiCore as a NAS sound better than a regular NAS (Synology, Qnap, etc)?

Putting aside the UnitiCore can also rip CDs, the UnitiCore would need to sound much better since it is much more expensive than a regular NAS. 

Daniel H. posted:

It seems the UnitiCore sounds better as network storage, a fancy NAS, rather than a renderer through Spdif. The question then becomes, does the UnitiCore as a NAS sound better than a regular NAS (Synology, Qnap, etc)?

Putting aside the UnitiCore can also rip CDs, the UnitiCore would need to sound much better since it is much more expensive than a regular NAS. 

A couple of people have reported better sound from a regular NAS than a Unitiserve, but this has not been the case for me. I think it is something you need to asess carefully in your own system. 

If you use a NAS for automatic backup of a Core, you can put a server such as Asset or Minimserver on that, and make the comparison for yourself. 

docmark posted:

Hello - maybe one of you would know the answer to this question.  I have a Core with a 2TB SSD that is starting to fill up.  In retrospect, I should have bought a 4TB SSD.  If I go ahead with the 4TB SSD, how difficult will it be to transfer everything from the 2TB to the 4TB drive, without losing anything on the 2TB drive?  I imagine that the 4TB drive will have to formatted first by the Core, and then a transfer can be done.  I wonder if I shouldn't hire a computer pro (or geek) to do the job.

Thanks.

Docmark, I would ask Naim support.  I may well be that a simple clone of your existing drive to a larger 4TB will suffice, but best get Naim's advice before proceeding. 

Back it up first to an external usb hdd(you should have a back up anyway). Then reformat new 4 Tb ssd in the core, create music store, then import music. The 2 Tb Drive is untouched....still will have you music, a second back up. The external usb hdd should be only 70 or 80 pounds much less than paying someone. I would get a 4 Tb to then use as back up to your new ssd.

Reply to drmark re 2 to 4tb. Make backup of 2tb using the Naim app to another location or storage device any size will do so long as it's big enough for your existing collection, this is an important prerequisite, don't use any other method of backup apart from Naim app, (Settings, Manage music, Backup music). Next, remove the old HD from the Core and replace with the new. Set up HD as per instructions, ie format and configure music store to internal sata. (someone mentioned import music, don't do that). Next go to Settings, manage music, restore from backup, select backup. Job done but it'll take a few hours and suggest that  you do it over night. Make sure your backup location is is set to remain on 'forever' during both the backup and restore sessions, don't allow anything to go into hibernation, sleep or off. Any other methods of backup apart from using the Naim app will result in you having to import music to the 'Downloads' folder (read/write location) rather than the 'Music' folder (read only location). Hope this helps, Rich 

Yes I agree with Gazza and Rich the answer to changing to a 4TB disc is to back up the existing music to a USB HDD, change the internal drive, set it as a Music store and format it and then "restore" from the backup HDD. That is how you are supposed to do it.

best

David

J Novak posted:

In the process of setting up my new system, I have chosen UnityCore as a ripper/ storage device, and put in a 4TB Samsung SSD.

I have been interested in the performance of S/Pdif vs. LAN outputs. The system used for comparison was MSB Select II with built in renderer, connected as pre into Gryphon Antileon driving Pantheon speakers. S/Pdif cable was Naim DC1 BNC to RCA, switch was Hewlett Packard ProCurve 1410-8G, ethernet cables were Audioquest Cinnamon, and TeraGrand Cat7.

We listened first to the S/Pdif connection, then both the UnitiCore and MSB connected directly to a router, and finally with HP switch connected to a router, and UnitiCore and MSB connected to the switch.

The difference was very noticeable, with S/Pdif connection being by far the worst. The sound improved in speed, transparency and weight as we moved to the ethernet connection, to culminate with additional soundstage extension and depth with the switch introduced.

One could argue that a superior S/Pdif cable could improve performance, however the difference was so significant that I do not think that would change the conclusion.

I hope you will find this useful, best, JN

Thanks for reporting your findings! These might be the result of a poor S/PDIF implementation in the Core or of a poor S/PDIF interface in the MSB. Have you tried feeding the MSB with another S/PDIF source like the Allo DigiOne or the output of a Mutec MC-3+ USB? That would give an idea of where the Core stands in terms of S/PDIF sound quality.

nbpf posted:

J Novak posted:

In the process of setting up my new system, I have chosen UnityCore as a ripper/ storage device, and put in a 4TB Samsung SSD.

I have been interested in the performance of S/Pdif vs. LAN outputs. The system used for comparison was MSB Select II with built in renderer, connected as pre into Gryphon Antileon driving Pantheon speakers. S/Pdif cable was Naim DC1 BNC to RCA, switch was Hewlett Packard ProCurve 1410-8G, ethernet cables were Audioquest Cinnamon, and TeraGrand Cat7.

We listened first to the S/Pdif connection, then both the UnitiCore and MSB connected directly to a router, and finally with HP switch connected to a router, and UnitiCore and MSB connected to the switch.

The difference was very noticeable, with S/Pdif connection being by far the worst. The sound improved in speed, transparency and weight as we moved to the ethernet connection, to culminate with additional soundstage extension and depth with the switch introduced.

One could argue that a superior S/Pdif cable could improve performance, however the difference was so significant that I do not think that would change the conclusion.

I hope you will find this useful, best, JN

Thanks for reporting your findings! These might be the result of a poor S/PDIF implementation in the Core or of a poor S/PDIF interface in the MSB. Have you tried feeding the MSB with another S/PDIF source like the Allo DigiOne or the output of a Mutec MC-3+ USB? That would give an idea of where the Core stands in terms of S/PDIF sound quality.

Interesting that you found SPDIF performance to be lacking, as others reported excellent results playing it over SPDIF into a Naim streamer or NDAC. I think I would want to investigate this further just in case something is not functioning as it should. 

ChrisSU posted:

nbpf posted:

J Novak posted:

In the process of setting up my new system, I have chosen UnityCore as a ripper/ storage device, and put in a 4TB Samsung SSD.

I have been interested in the performance of S/Pdif vs. LAN outputs. The system used for comparison was MSB Select II with built in renderer, connected as pre into Gryphon Antileon driving Pantheon speakers. S/Pdif cable was Naim DC1 BNC to RCA, switch was Hewlett Packard ProCurve 1410-8G, ethernet cables were Audioquest Cinnamon, and TeraGrand Cat7.

We listened first to the S/Pdif connection, then both the UnitiCore and MSB connected directly to a router, and finally with HP switch connected to a router, and UnitiCore and MSB connected to the switch.

The difference was very noticeable, with S/Pdif connection being by far the worst. The sound improved in speed, transparency and weight as we moved to the ethernet connection, to culminate with additional soundstage extension and depth with the switch introduced.

One could argue that a superior S/Pdif cable could improve performance, however the difference was so significant that I do not think that would change the conclusion.

I hope you will find this useful, best, JN

Thanks for reporting your findings! These might be the result of a poor S/PDIF implementation in the Core or of a poor S/PDIF interface in the MSB. Have you tried feeding the MSB with another S/PDIF source like the Allo DigiOne or the output of a Mutec MC-3+ USB? That would give an idea of where the Core stands in terms of S/PDIF sound quality.

Interesting that you found SPDIF performance to be lacking, as others reported excellent results playing it over SPDIF into a Naim streamer or NDAC. I think I would want to investigate this further just in case something is not functioning as it should. 

the same results for me with the nds:  the core in upnp mode is ahead the spdif.  I had the core a couple of days and could try both connection.

French Rooster posted:

ChrisSU posted:

nbpf posted:

J Novak posted:

In the process of setting up my new system, I have chosen UnityCore as a ripper/ storage device, and put in a 4TB Samsung SSD.

I have been interested in the performance of S/Pdif vs. LAN outputs. The system used for comparison was MSB Select II with built in renderer, connected as pre into Gryphon Antileon driving Pantheon speakers. S/Pdif cable was Naim DC1 BNC to RCA, switch was Hewlett Packard ProCurve 1410-8G, ethernet cables were Audioquest Cinnamon, and TeraGrand Cat7.

We listened first to the S/Pdif connection, then both the UnitiCore and MSB connected directly to a router, and finally with HP switch connected to a router, and UnitiCore and MSB connected to the switch.

The difference was very noticeable, with S/Pdif connection being by far the worst. The sound improved in speed, transparency and weight as we moved to the ethernet connection, to culminate with additional soundstage extension and depth with the switch introduced.

One could argue that a superior S/Pdif cable could improve performance, however the difference was so significant that I do not think that would change the conclusion.

I hope you will find this useful, best, JN

Thanks for reporting your findings! These might be the result of a poor S/PDIF implementation in the Core or of a poor S/PDIF interface in the MSB. Have you tried feeding the MSB with another S/PDIF source like the Allo DigiOne or the output of a Mutec MC-3+ USB? That would give an idea of where the Core stands in terms of S/PDIF sound quality.

Interesting that you found SPDIF performance to be lacking, as others reported excellent results playing it over SPDIF into a Naim streamer or NDAC. I think I would want to investigate this further just in case something is not functioning as it should. 

the same results for me with the nds:  the core in upnp mode is ahead the spdif.  I had the core a couple of days and could try both connection.

Again, if the goal is to assess the quality of the Core's S/PDIF output, we should compare it to other S/PDIF outputs, not to UPnP. Otherwise we might actually be assessing the quality of our S/PDIF inputs, cables, environment, etc. It is possible that the Core's S/PDIF output is actually very good and yet it does not compare well against UPnP!

nbpf posted:

French Rooster posted:

ChrisSU posted:

nbpf posted:

J Novak posted:

In the process of setting up my new system, I have chosen UnityCore as a ripper/ storage device, and put in a 4TB Samsung SSD.

I have been interested in the performance of S/Pdif vs. LAN outputs. The system used for comparison was MSB Select II with built in renderer, connected as pre into Gryphon Antileon driving Pantheon speakers. S/Pdif cable was Naim DC1 BNC to RCA, switch was Hewlett Packard ProCurve 1410-8G, ethernet cables were Audioquest Cinnamon, and TeraGrand Cat7.

We listened first to the S/Pdif connection, then both the UnitiCore and MSB connected directly to a router, and finally with HP switch connected to a router, and UnitiCore and MSB connected to the switch.

The difference was very noticeable, with S/Pdif connection being by far the worst. The sound improved in speed, transparency and weight as we moved to the ethernet connection, to culminate with additional soundstage extension and depth with the switch introduced.

One could argue that a superior S/Pdif cable could improve performance, however the difference was so significant that I do not think that would change the conclusion.

I hope you will find this useful, best, JN

Thanks for reporting your findings! These might be the result of a poor S/PDIF implementation in the Core or of a poor S/PDIF interface in the MSB. Have you tried feeding the MSB with another S/PDIF source like the Allo DigiOne or the output of a Mutec MC-3+ USB? That would give an idea of where the Core stands in terms of S/PDIF sound quality.

Interesting that you found SPDIF performance to be lacking, as others reported excellent results playing it over SPDIF into a Naim streamer or NDAC. I think I would want to investigate this further just in case something is not functioning as it should. 

the same results for me with the nds:  the core in upnp mode is ahead the spdif.  I had the core a couple of days and could try both connection.

Again, if the goal is to assess the quality of the Core's S/PDIF output, we should compare it to other S/PDIF outputs, not to UPnP. Otherwise we might actually be assessing the quality of our S/PDIF inputs, cables, environment, etc. It is possible that the Core's S/PDIF output is actually very good and yet it does not compare well against UPnP!

Actually the OP was specifically comparing SPDIF with UPnP, whether intended as a comparison of either the Core’s renderer against the MSB Select’s renderer or as a comparison of the SPDIF protocol and cabling against the ethernet protocol, cabling and ancillary components, or whether s/he recognised that the comparison encompassed all of these.

Of course it is equally valid to compare different renderers outputs by SPDIF, just that this is something quite different. 

Innocent Bystander posted:

nbpf posted:

French Rooster posted:

ChrisSU posted:

nbpf posted:

J Novak posted:

In the process of setting up my new system, I have chosen UnityCore as a ripper/ storage device, and put in a 4TB Samsung SSD.

I have been interested in the performance of S/Pdif vs. LAN outputs. The system used for comparison was MSB Select II with built in renderer, connected as pre into Gryphon Antileon driving Pantheon speakers. S/Pdif cable was Naim DC1 BNC to RCA, switch was Hewlett Packard ProCurve 1410-8G, ethernet cables were Audioquest Cinnamon, and TeraGrand Cat7.

We listened first to the S/Pdif connection, then both the UnitiCore and MSB connected directly to a router, and finally with HP switch connected to a router, and UnitiCore and MSB connected to the switch.

The difference was very noticeable, with S/Pdif connection being by far the worst. The sound improved in speed, transparency and weight as we moved to the ethernet connection, to culminate with additional soundstage extension and depth with the switch introduced.

One could argue that a superior S/Pdif cable could improve performance, however the difference was so significant that I do not think that would change the conclusion.

I hope you will find this useful, best, JN

Thanks for reporting your findings! These might be the result of a poor S/PDIF implementation in the Core or of a poor S/PDIF interface in the MSB. Have you tried feeding the MSB with another S/PDIF source like the Allo DigiOne or the output of a Mutec MC-3+ USB? That would give an idea of where the Core stands in terms of S/PDIF sound quality.

Interesting that you found SPDIF performance to be lacking, as others reported excellent results playing it over SPDIF into a Naim streamer or NDAC. I think I would want to investigate this further just in case something is not functioning as it should. 

the same results for me with the nds:  the core in upnp mode is ahead the spdif.  I had the core a couple of days and could try both connection.

Again, if the goal is to assess the quality of the Core's S/PDIF output, we should compare it to other S/PDIF outputs, not to UPnP. Otherwise we might actually be assessing the quality of our S/PDIF inputs, cables, environment, etc. It is possible that the Core's S/PDIF output is actually very good and yet it does not compare well against UPnP!

Actually the OP was specifically comparing SPDIF with UPnP, whether intended as a comparison of either the Core’s renderer against the MSB Select’s renderer or as a comparison of the SPDIF protocol and cabling against the ethernet protocol, cabling and ancillary components, or whether s/he recognised that the comparison encompassed all of these.

Of course it is equally valid to compare different renderers outputs by SPDIF, just that this is something quite different. 

Sure, I read the original post. it's just that the comparison made by the OP does not allow to draw conclusions on the quality of the Core's S/PDIF output: this could be very good, very bad or just average. If we want to assess the quality of the Core's S/PDIF output (which would be a very interesting piece of information for perspective buyers) we should compare this to the S/PDIF outputs of other devices. This is the only point that I would like to make.

Hello NBPF,  i understood that the op found the sound quality of the upnp mode better than spdif for the combo core/msb.  But i didn’t understood that he pointed that spdif of the core was bad.

Re comparing S/PDIF outputs - I’ve had my Core for 2 weeks. I have the S/PDIF out into NDAC (which is powered by 555PS DR). I also have CD5XS with S/PDIF out into the NDAC. Both connected to NDAC via DC1 cables (BNC to BNC). When comparing the SQ between the two, the Core holds up well although it isn’t quite at the same level as the CD5XS, but close. Some ripped recordings sound a little bright with bass rolled off compared to CD. Other well produced albums sound fab. Overall, I’m pleased with the SQ of the Core - tho I would welcome any suggestions how it could be improved further.

Thanks for the input, Bongoman!

Aside from trying out a different cable, your best bet is to use the ethernet output of the UnitiCore feeding a renderer of some sort.

The S/Pdif output is by no means poorly sounding, it is just that, in my findings, the ethernet is better by quite a margin.

Best, JN

Ethernet is better (UnitiCore + NDS + 2x555PS DR).

BP.

J Novak posted:

Thanks for the input, Bongoman!

Aside from trying out a different cable, your best bet is to use the ethernet output of the UnitiCore feeding a renderer of some sort.

The S/Pdif output is by no means poorly sounding, it is just that, in my findings, the ethernet is better by quite a margin.

Best, JN

That was my thought too. There is a distinct difference of opinion, with some preferring s/pdif and some preferring upnp. But in any case I would expect the UnitiCore to sound better than a CD5 XS on any material.

best

David

Thanks J Novak!

Can you advise please how I could set up the renderer? I have the ethernet out from the Core into Apple Airport Express as my router is in another room so can’t connect directly.

bongoman posted:

Thanks J Novak!

Can you advise please how I could set up the renderer? I have the ethernet out from the Core into Apple Airport Express as my router is in another room so can’t connect directly.

You mentioned before that you were using the Core over SPDIF into an NDAC. If you are thinking of adding a streamer, you may want to use a network connection to the Core: is this what you had in mind? If so, you might want a direct Ethernet connection to your network for both streamer and Core. 

ChrisSU posted:

bongoman posted:

Thanks J Novak!

Can you advise please how I could set up the renderer? I have the ethernet out from the Core into Apple Airport Express as my router is in another room so can’t connect directly.

You mentioned before that you were using the Core over SPDIF into an NDAC. If you are thinking of adding a streamer, you may want to use a network connection to the Core: is this what you had in mind? If so, you might want a direct Ethernet connection to your network for both streamer and Core. 

Hi ChrisSU - Yes, I'm thinking of adding a streamer, e.g. NAC N 272 with 250 DR (I currently have SN2). Then feeding both Core and 272 into a direct network connection. Aside from extra expense, this will involve moving the BT master socket - I live in a Grade II listed property so not easy to run cabling around the house.

bongoman posted:

ChrisSU posted:

bongoman posted:

Thanks J Novak!

Can you advise please how I could set up the renderer? I have the ethernet out from the Core into Apple Airport Express as my router is in another room so can’t connect directly.

You mentioned before that you were using the Core over SPDIF into an NDAC. If you are thinking of adding a streamer, you may want to use a network connection to the Core: is this what you had in mind? If so, you might want a direct Ethernet connection to your network for both streamer and Core. 

Hi ChrisSU - Yes, I'm thinking of adding a streamer, e.g. NAC N 272 with 250 DR (I currently have SN2). Then feeding both Core and 272 into a direct network connection. Aside from extra expense, this will involve moving the BT master socket - I live in a Grade II listed property so not easy to run cabling around the house.

In that case I would suggest that you keep the Core close enough to the 272 to connect them both to a switch so that they have a wired connection. Then, to connect them to the web, if an Ethernet cable is impractical, connect your Airport Express to the same switch.

Are you replacing the NDAC with a 272? Just curious, as I'm not sure this would be a step up in sound quality.

bongoman posted:

Thanks J Novak!

Can you advise please how I could set up the renderer?

That depends on the renderer or streamer that you will buy, of course. You will likely have to move to an NDS streamer (or to non Naim products) to improve against your Naim DAC. Why do you want to move away from it? If you are not satisfied with the Core's S/PDIF output (but you like the S/PDIF output of your CD5XS), you could perhaps consider another S/PDIF source.  

nbpf posted:

bongoman posted:

Thanks J Novak!

Can you advise please how I could set up the renderer?

That depends on the renderer or streamer that you will buy, of course. You will likely have to move to an NDS streamer (or to non Naim products) to improve against your Naim DAC. Why do you want to move away from it? If you are not satisfied with the Core's S/PDIF output (but you like the S/PDIF output of your CD5XS), you could perhaps consider another S/PDIF source.  

Thanks nbpf - I'm not entirely dissatisfied with the Core's S/PDIF output, but interested in the comments here on how sound quality is better in the upnp mode than S/PDIF. 

ChrisSU - I agree that replacing the NDAC with a 272 may not be a step up in sound quality. A NDS might be a better option as I have already have a 555PS DR (and at some point add a second).