Dipping toes into the NAS (world) with no clue and getting rid of the CD player

Stephen Tate posted:

I guess one way to find out for sure is to visit my local dealer and hear what they can advise and demonstrate to me. I have this Friday off from work so will pop in and see them then, hopefully they'll cast some their magic on me and refuse to take no for an answer!

Thanks 

Sounds like an excellent idea. Are they in London Road by any chance?

Dave

dave4jazz posted:

Sounds like an excellent idea. Are they in London Road by any chance?

Dave

Yes they are. 

Stephen Tate posted:

dave4jazz posted:

Sounds like an excellent idea. Are they in London Road by any chance?

Dave

Yes they are. 

It's a while since I visited them but always found them to be very friendly and helpful.

Good luck.

Enjoy.

Dave

Stephen Tate posted:

I guess one way to find out for sure is to visit my local dealer and hear what they can advise or demonstrate to me. I have this Friday off from work so will pop in and see them then, hopefully they'll cast some of their magic on me and refuse to take no for an answer!

Thanks 

My guess is that you'll find a Naim dealer's advice weighted towards the streamers, rather than a computer/DAC source. Why? Because that's what Naim do, and their standalone DACs are not big sellers. Also, to set up a meaningful demo of a computer/DAC setup vs a streamer is easier said than done, as there are so many variables when setting up a computer as a source. Still worth seeking a dealers advice, though. 

Stephen

I should have also said, as well as a visit to London Road, have a talk to Martin at the Audiostore/Vortexbox.

He's very knowledgeable and helpful.

Dave

dave4jazz posted:

Stephen Tate posted:

I must admit, when I first connected my laptop to my Arcam irDAC via a JitterBug and Chord Silver Plus USB cable and then started streaming from Qobuz it did hit me for six how good the sound was/is. I mean, compared to my CD5si with a Hi-Line or Grey/lavender lead, there isn't that much in it. I will say the CD player is little heavier in the bass and maybe a little richer but that's about it. I am expecting a dedicated Naim streamer and NAS to blow both of those out of the water. Do you think i'm in for a little disappointment in that it will not?

Regards,

Stephen

I can't answer your question but let's just say there's nothing that makes me want to go down the Naim streamer route.

Dave

I run both a 'streamer' (Linn Klimax DS/1) in one system and a separate renderer/DAC (Sonore microRendu/Hugo) in a second system. I also used to run a Naim streamer (ND5XS).

My preference, and my recommendation for anyone wants to get into local network streaming (or external streaming services) would be to go down the dedicated streamer and NAS route. Whilst the renderer/DAC route can be really good if you get it right and get it working, there are a number of advantages to the dedicated streamer option.

The most obvious advantage is that (assuming your chosen streamer is from Naim, Linn, Auralic or similar), it should be easier to get up and running than other perhaps slightly more 'complicated' options. It will also be significantly easier to get access to a multitude of Internet Radio stations (I find Naim to be particularly good in this respect) , or to have integrated access to streaming services such as Qobuz, Tidal or Spotify. I moved from a Naim ND5XS streamer to an ND5XS/Hugo to my current microRendu/Hugo in my second system simply because the sound quality of the original ND5XS on its own wasn't quite good enough, and the difference in sound quality between it and the streamer in my main system (at the time a Linn Klimax Renew) was just a little too much to be comfortable. I haven't heard the latest generation of Naim streamers, but I suspect that they will be pretty good at their price points, and there are a number of other options available as well. Unlike a number of people on this forum, I also like the Naim app (on iPad at least), and find its ease of use (and that of the Linn equivalent) enhances the whole music experience. 

My advice would be to demo one or more of the new Naim streamers, and look at a number of the interesting alternatives should you wish to broaden your search a little bit.  

Stephen Tate posted:

dave4jazz posted:

Sounds like an excellent idea. Are they in London Road by any chance?

Dave

Yes they are. 

your nas will come to life with a streamer. For now it is like a car in the garage.   The nd5xs2 with nas will sound better than arcam r dac into your laptop.  It will be more on the level of cd5xs with flatcap.  Perhaps even better.    Later, if you want, you can add a second hand naim dac to your nd5xs2, and you will be in the cdx2/xps2 level of sound.

Stephen,

Don't have your focus on SQ alone. 

At the price it's probably possible to have better SQ. But the Naim ND5XS (I have the present/old one) does have a lot more than SQ to offer. Not least for someone who isn't an expert in computers, network, servers and things like that. 

First, it's extremely easy to add to your system, plug'n play I would say. Once you have the NAS up and running, that is. For features it has a USB input and includes a very good and easy to use i-radio as well. It's upgradable both on PSU and DAC side. It looks really good and it's very well built and will probably last well beyond 10 years of use. 

So, in line with what HMack said above (more or less) I would say simply go for the Naim streamer, be it ND5XS2 or a s/h NDX or even, like me, old ND5XS. Personally I have added an nDAC to mine, found s/h at a nice price, but I found the bare streamer to sound very good and enjoyable, though not as good ad my CDX (not surprising given their price levels). 

Claus

Given that you seemed to struggle with the NAS, and, if you will forgive my interpreting some of your posts in that way, you seem to be a bit prone to throwing up your hands in despair and giving up when computer setup type issues raise their ugly heads, I am inclined to think that a ready made turnkey streaming device is what you need, not anything that is at all DIY-ish, regardless of cost and/or sound quality benefits. Given that you already have a NAS, meaning that the alternative option roure of a store-renderer plus DAC is at this stage not something to consider, I’m inclined to agree that the best solution is indeed probably something like ND5XS, whether that is get a mark 1 model at a good secondhand price once the new one is out, or save enough for v2 which I am sure will be better.

Once you’ve got well past the learning curves involved with getting streaming, you can always consider other possibilities, whether that is adding a better DAC to the ND5XS (certainly scope there for improving Mk1, who knows re Mk2), or moving up the Naim streamer range, or swapping for an Innuos/Melco etc plus DAC. Or you may find yourself sufficiently content with it that you don’t need to upgrade at all, in which case job done!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Given that you seemed to struggle with the NAS, and, if you will forgive my interpreting some of your posts in that way, you seem to be a bit prone to throwing up your hands in despair and giving up when computer setup type issues raise their ugly heads, I am inclined to think that a ready made turnkey streaming device is what you need....

Give the poor guy some credit!! He already has a laptop/USB DAC working, and has successfully set up a NAS/server, which is probably the trickiest thing he needs to do to get up and running. My gut feeling is that for his stated budget, Stephen would get a bigger boost to sound quality with a DAC upgrade than an ND5XS2. There are other considerations, of course, such as aesthetics and practicality, and we all have our own views on that.

Stephen Tate posted:

dave4jazz posted:

Sounds like an excellent idea. Are they in London Road by any chance?

Dave

Yes they are. 

Ah yes, I know them well. Heck, I’ve even bought L*** (shhhhhh!) stuff from them.

Often pass the shop....normally on the way from the car park to the Ghandi!

Innuos Zenith?

ChrisSU posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Given that you seemed to struggle with the NAS, and, if you will forgive my interpreting some of your posts in that way, you seem to be a bit prone to throwing up your hands in despair and giving up when computer setup type issues raise their ugly heads, I am inclined to think that a ready made turnkey streaming device is what you need....

Give the poor guy some credit!! He already has a laptop/USB DAC working, and has successfully set up a NAS/server, which is probably the trickiest thing he needs to do to get up and running. My gut feeling is that for his stated budget, Stephen would get a bigger boost to sound quality with a DAC upgrade than an ND5XS2. There are other considerations, of course, such as aesthetics and practicality, and we all have our own views on that.

Indeed he has - but He also showed what appeared to me to be quite a bit of stress in the process (and thatbis not being critical, just the way the responses on here came across)

As my own several contributions have indicated I think a good DAC would bring better SQ for the money, but it does require more setting up of a computer source or other to do it right, and I’m guessing the OP may be happier with soemthing dead straughtforward

Apologies to the OP if I have misjudged.

T38.45 posted:

Innuos Zenith?

 

A Raspberry Pi & Volumio based solution for around £170?

Dips the toe in at low cost. Sounds OK and then if Stephen likes what it does he can move into the big league with the Naim streamers.

T38.45 posted:

Innuos Zenith?

 

But he’s already gone the NAS route!

or sell this nas, buy a second nas and have the big pleasure to install it again.  

Suzy Wong posted:

T38.45 posted:

Innuos Zenith?

 

A Raspberry Pi & Volumio based solution for around £170?

Dips the toe in at low cost. Sounds OK and then if Stephen likes what it does he can move into the big league with the Naim streamers.

The OP was already streaming before getting a NAS, but wants to do it properly now, replacing his, source and DAC. And he liked what HH demonstrated. I think the remaining question is whether to go for a packaged unit like ND5XS, or aasemble renderer and DAC seperately - effectively trading convenience and ease against sound quality for money. My gut feeling - which might be wrong - is that at this point in time he may be more up for the simple option.

French Rooster posted:

or sell this nas, buy a second nas and have the big pleasure to install it again.  

Ah, of coutse, with the benefit of experience!

Hi folks,

Thank you so much for all your contributions here, I really appreciate all your input, I would rather people spoke their mind other than just giving me what they think I should hear. I love good old plain honesty. Honesty is the best policy!

£2,000 is a really hard & fought for/ work my arse off  lot of money for me. I really love music & hi fi, it is indeed my coping mechanism (as is for a lot of others here) of getting through daily life. I can't thank Naim audio enough for giving me this experience over the years and i'm sure they will continue to do so in the future. Times and things have obviously changed, it's a learning curve for everyone, including them. I mean; I loved my Olive set up, it gave me so much enjoyment over the years, especially when I went active with my slim line system, this made me feel on top of the world everytime when challenged with alternatives.

I have now stripped right back to the basics (hence the NAIT) and hope to keep on coping, if you get my drift?

Anyway, enough of all that..

The difficulty I am finding with the NAS solution at this moment is it's like learning all about computers rather than just listening to music, which is why we are all not here to do; right?

I don't know whether I am ready for it or not, I just need change in that i'm fed with using CDs because of the clutter and the machines themselves do bring their own set of reliability  issues, which I don't think I can longer be bothered with. Streaming from a network player seems the next best thing.

Basically, I want a fuss free, easy to use, reliable and get with the times, great sounding solution that will better what I already have now. 

It just seems as though it is not as simple as it once was. Now I can see why vinyl has it's appeal and why many folks are revisiting it although it then can be access to one's music that my prove difficult, which is another issue for some.

It's all a little bit over whelming for some of us, that's all, especially us oldies!

Many thanks

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi folks,

Thank you so much for all your contributions here, I really appreciate all your input, I would rather people spoke their mind other than just giving me what they think I should hear. I love good old plain honesty. Honesty is the best policy!

£2,000 is a really hard & fought for/ work my arse off  lot of money for me. I really love music & hi fi, it is indeed my coping mechanism (as is for a lot of others here) of getting through daily life. I can't thank Naim audio enough for giving this experience over the years and i'm sure they will continue to do so in the future. Times and things have obviously changed, it's a learning curve for everyone, including them. I mean; I loved my Olive set up, it gave me so much enjoyment over the years, especially when I went active with my slim line system, this made me feel on top of the world everytime when challenged with alternatives.

I have now stripped right back to the basics (hence the NAIT) and hope to keep on coping, if you get my drift?

Anyway, enough of all that..

The difficulty I am finding with the NAS solution at this moment is it's like learning all about computers rather than just listening to music, which is why we are all not here to do; right?

I don't know whether I am ready for it or not, I just need change in that i'm fed with using CDs because of the clutter and the machines themselves do bring their own set of reliability  issues, which I don't think I can longer be bothered with. Streaming from a network player seems the next best thing.

Basically, I want a fuss free, easy to use, reliable and get with the times, great sounding solution that will better what I already have now. 

It just seems as though it is not as simple as it once was. Now I can see why vinyl has it's appeal and why many folks are revisiting it although it then can be access to one's music that my prove difficult, which is another issue for some.

It's all a bit over whelming for some of us, that's all.

Many thanks

 

tomorrow, as you said, you will go to a dealer and hear some streamers, perhaps borrow one. It will be much easier for you to decide after.   Anyway, with a nd5xs2, you can’t go wrong.  Naim is a leader today in streaming music, for audiophiles.    With linn of course...

The most cost effective and easiest to manage is to get a Mac Mini, get a used Chord Hugo / Mojo, rip to the MM hard drive, hook the MM to the DAC using Toslink or USB, then you are done. No more fiddling with the NAS, networking, streaming, etc.

I shall  indeed hear what my dealer will suggest. Unfortunately I have been asked to go in work tomorrow, so Saturday seems more likely now, to have chat with the guys at my local retailer.

Stephen, just remember that you went through a logical process to come to a decision about your direction. You have the Nas set up, so it’s not overwhelming, nor are you in any way not up to it. The problem is that you don’t have a streamer that can play the music, so the ‘what ifs’ remain. Just stick with it, you’ll be fine. And I’m always happy to pop round to help. 

Yes, thank you for your reassurance here Nigel! Indeed, there is a logical process to begin with for the final goal. It's of course very easy to start 'over thinking' such things and become easily side tracked...

I am going to stick with what I intended to do in the first place, I have already purchased the NAS and now my next step is to get a streamer. 

Kind regards,

Stephen

I completely agree.

NAS + streamer is the way to go, especially now your NAS is up and running. I think you will be delighted with the sound quality of your system (assuming you end up with a Naim streamer) and the ease with which you can access your favourite music via the streamer. I am assuming that you will have a device on which to install the Naim app (if you end up with a Naim streamer), and that you can put up with the brief tedium of ripping your CD collection to your NAS.

Have fun & good luck.