Dipping toes into the NAS (world) with no clue and getting rid of the CD player

Posted by: Stephen Tate on 25 April 2018

Hi folks,

please forgive me for my lack of knowledge, I don't frequent here much because I don't really understand the computer world that much to be completely honest. I do find it daunting.

At the moment, as far as this streaming malarkey goes, I just subscribe to qobuz via my PC laptop via a Jitterbug and into a USB DAC. I'm toying with the idea (in my day dream world probably) to buy a Network Attached Storage device to replace my CD player.

I need advice as I'm not computer literate by any stretch of the imagination and I can't quite afford a Naim solution at this moment in time, I wish I could have a Naim but I can't, other pressing priorities are dictating right now.

I have looked at a Qnap device on Amazon, do I just get one, plug it in and then go from there? as I say, i'm out of my depth here with any confidence or knowledge. I will have around £1000 to play with to replace my CD5si into Nait 5si with Neat motive SX2 speakers . Are there other options to look at that are better? I've only picked bits here and there from other threads, put two & two together and probably come up aready with five. 

Top sound quality with what I've got is what i'm after. I just use a basic PlusNet servive provider via a landline, no switch or anything like that. I only have a smart TV connected via a Ethernet cable and that's about it.

Qobuz is streamed wirelessly and runs faultlessly via my laptop but...

Thankyou kindly advance guys for any guidance and info that maybe offered.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate

I do like the idea of using a NAS as I have a separate cupboard that it can reside in and I can use an i pad (when I have one) with a streamer of some sort whilst sat in the listening chair.

I do think my laptop connected via USB into my DAC and then into my Nait 5si is a rather 'scruffy' arrangement, I can't walk around 'freely' selecting my favourite tracks which I rather quite like the thought of being able to do.  

I will probably need to read this whole thread again and then maybe again...until it all sinks in

P.S. I have noticed that my CD5si player has started skipping towards the very end of a disc on all discs and I don't know whether I have the heart to continue with this format although I do enjoy it's sound and simplicity. It's just that times seem to be a moving on... hence thinking of the migration to all out streaming.

Again,many thanks.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
ChrisSU posted:

If you want to be free of the computer, I would also consider an Innuos Zen. This will rip your CDs, store them, and play them into your existing DAC, or a V1, or a Naim streamer. It will also play from Tidal, Qobuz and Spotify.

Thanks Chris,

Yes, this does seen to be the kind of solution I have in mind until I can afford something better. You have now got me thinking about thinking about a V1 too!

I'm sure I have read on here that a NAS device connected to laptop is better sounding than using a laptop via the USB DAC. I do like the sound of getting rid of the USB cable connection.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Mike-B posted:

Hi Stephen,   like Antony D,  I moved from CDX2/XPS to NDX/XPS (also in 2014).   My NAS is a Synology with WD Red HDD's.  I also rip with dBpoweramp but although most purchases are downloads, dBpoweramp is an excellent metadata editor for these.

Hi Mike,

I have looked online and I only really need a NAS - 1TB or 2TB absolute max, more than plenty for what I will ever need. This must be a highly regarded solution if you went from a CDX2/XPS to a NDX/XPS or in my case a possible V1?

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Peakman

Hi Stephen

I agree with most of the posts above except possibly Reanimate's.  I have been streaming to my 272 from a QNAP NAS for more than a couple of years now in spite of having no idea what a subnet mask, gateway or port 9000 is.  However, I did buy my NAS from Ripcaster rather than Amazon.  I'm sure I paid a bit more but the opportunity to discuss my requirements over the phone and the fact that the NAS came ready to connect to my network and worked straight from the box made it well worth while.

Roger

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by ChrisSU
Stephen Tate posted:
ChrisSU posted:

If you want to be free of the computer, I would also consider an Innuos Zen. This will rip your CDs, store them, and play them into your existing DAC, or a V1, or a Naim streamer. It will also play from Tidal, Qobuz and Spotify.

Thanks Chris,

Yes, this does seen to be the kind of solution I have in mind until I can afford something better. You have now got me thinking about thinking about a V1 too!

I'm sure I have read on here that a NAS device connected to laptop is better sounding than using a laptop via the USB DAC. I do like the sound of getting rid of the USB cable connection.

A NAS is really the ideal partner to a streamer, with both devices connected to your network, where they find each other. You wouldn't connect a NAS to a laptop, just use either its internal drive or a USB drive. These are the two distinct ways to build a system that I was referring to earlier. If you stick to using a DAC as you are now, it's possible to connect it to a dedicated computer optimised for audio, rather than using a general purpose PC. A Mac Mini is a popular choice for this, with a bit of software called Audirvana on it to optimise the audio.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Innocent Bystander
Stephen Tate posted:

 

I have looked at an Auralic device on-line where you just plug everything into that, is this the same as a ND5XS? 

 

Haven’t experienced myself Auralic producrs seem to have a good reputation for sound quality for the money.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Innocent Bystander
Stephen Tate posted:

.

I do think my laptop connected via USB into my DAC and then into my Nait 5si is a rather 'scruffy' arrangement, I can't walk around 'freely' selecting my favourite tracks which I rather quite like the thought of being able to do.  .

I dont think you’ve identified your DAC yet?

 

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Innocent Bystander
Stephen Tate posted:

Yes, this does seen to be the kind of solution I have in mind until I can afford something better. You have now got me thinking about thinking about a V1 too!

I'm sure I have read on here that a NAS device connected to laptop is better sounding than using a laptop via the USB DAC. I do like the sound of getting rid of the USB cable connection.

If you consider DAC, also consider Chord Hugo, or Mojo which is significantly cheaper.

Nothing wrong with a usb DAC - the problem is RF from the computer. You need good RF isolation, unless the DAC is exemplary in that respect. Provided the Renderer is bit-perfect, and the DAC is asynchronous (generating irs own ‘clock’), then I believe that RF is  the biggest cause of differences with different rendering solutions. When I used a Mac Mini as store, running Audirvana as its rendering program, into a Hugo DAC I found an isolator called Gustard U12 to be very effective in blocking the RF (Hugo has no RF isolation of its own, but otherwise is an excellent DAC for the money).

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
ChrisSU posted:
Stephen Tate posted:
ChrisSU posted:

If you want to be free of the computer, I would also consider an Innuos Zen. This will rip your CDs, store them, and play them into your existing DAC, or a V1, or a Naim streamer. It will also play from Tidal, Qobuz and Spotify.

Thanks Chris,

Yes, this does seen to be the kind of solution I have in mind until I can afford something better. You have now got me thinking about thinking about a V1 too!

I'm sure I have read on here that a NAS device connected to laptop is better sounding than using a laptop via the USB DAC. I do like the sound of getting rid of the USB cable connection.

A NAS is really the ideal partner to a streamer, with both devices connected to your network, where they find each other. You wouldn't connect a NAS to a laptop, just use either its internal drive or a USB drive. These are the two distinct ways to build a system that I was referring to earlier. If you stick to using a DAC as you are now, it's possible to connect it to a dedicated computer optimised for audio, rather than using a general purpose PC. A Mac Mini is a popular choice for this, with a bit of software called Audirvana on it to optimise the audio.

Thanks for the clarity Chris. 

Can I now assume that a Naim streamer with a Qnap or whatever NAS drive is a natural progression from the Mac Mini & software solution that you describe above.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Innocent Bystander posted:
Stephen Tate posted:

Yes, this does seen to be the kind of solution I have in mind until I can afford something better. You have now got me thinking about thinking about a V1 too!

I'm sure I have read on here that a NAS device connected to laptop is better sounding than using a laptop via the USB DAC. I do like the sound of getting rid of the USB cable connection.

If you consider DAC, also consider Chord Hugo, or Mojo which is significantly cheaper.

Nothing wrong with a usb DAC - the problem is RF from the computer. You need good RF isolation, unless the DAC is exemplary in that respect. Provided the Renderer is bit-perfect, and the DAC is asynchronous (generating irs own ‘clock’), then I believe that RF is  the biggest cause of differences with different rendering solutions. When I used a Mac Mini as store, running Audirvana as its rendering program, into a Hugo DAC I found an isolator called Gustard U12 to be very effective in blocking the RF (Hugo has no RF isolation of its own, but otherwise is an excellent DAC for the money).

Got you IB. 

I take it you have now progressed onto now a Naim solution ?

I'm warming to the idea of a Mac Mini.

Thanks.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Innocent Bystander posted:
Stephen Tate posted:

.

I do think my laptop connected via USB into my DAC and then into my Nait 5si is a rather 'scruffy' arrangement, I can't walk around 'freely' selecting my favourite tracks which I rather quite like the thought of being able to do.  .

I dont think you’ve identified your DAC yet?

 

I'm only using an Arcam irDAC  now for about three years but only for streaming Qobuz.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Hungryhalibut posted:

Do I recall that you live near Portsmouth?

Yes HH, I do live in the Portsmouth area.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by ChrisSU
Stephen Tate posted:
ChrisSU posted:
Stephen Tate posted:
ChrisSU posted:

If you want to be free of the computer, I would also consider an Innuos Zen. This will rip your CDs, store them, and play them into your existing DAC, or a V1, or a Naim streamer. It will also play from Tidal, Qobuz and Spotify.

Thanks Chris,

Yes, this does seen to be the kind of solution I have in mind until I can afford something better. You have now got me thinking about thinking about a V1 too!

I'm sure I have read on here that a NAS device connected to laptop is better sounding than using a laptop via the USB DAC. I do like the sound of getting rid of the USB cable connection.

A NAS is really the ideal partner to a streamer, with both devices connected to your network, where they find each other. You wouldn't connect a NAS to a laptop, just use either its internal drive or a USB drive. These are the two distinct ways to build a system that I was referring to earlier. If you stick to using a DAC as you are now, it's possible to connect it to a dedicated computer optimised for audio, rather than using a general purpose PC. A Mac Mini is a popular choice for this, with a bit of software called Audirvana on it to optimise the audio.

Thanks for the clarity Chris. 

Can I now assume that a Naim streamer with a Qnap or whatever NAS drive is a natural progression from the Mac Mini & software solution that you describe above.

Naim have certainly developed their streamers as the main digital sources in their product range, but I wouldn't automatically assume that this is the only way to go. You may find that you can get more for your money by staying with the Mac & DAC (or PC and DAC) setup you already have. Take Naim's reference DAC, the NDAC - it costs about the same as their entry level separates streamer, the ND5XS. There are many different ways to go. Like you, I started out with a computer and a cheapish DAC connected to my Naim amp, but jumped ship and bought a streamer, which I've been very happy with, but it isn't the only way to get good sound. 

Do you have access to a decent dealer? You might find it helpful to compare, say, a V1 (with your laptop) to an ND5XS so that you can get a feel for all this stuff. (The dealer, of course, will say buy the streamer!) 

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Christopher_M posted:

Stephen, this is a sad day!

Hope it turns out.

Chris

I know Chris.

My CD player has now started playing up towards the very end of discs, it's already on it's second mech and because I have had a few players in the past replaced with new mechs (which is not cheap), I don't know if I can be bothered anymore, especially if I now start to factor in the price & popularity of an alternative streaming solution. 

If my CD player was still soldiering on faultlessly I would of just carried on because of the simplicity alone but I've now started to question the reliability of the Compact Disc player in general. 

 

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Innocent Bystander
Stephen Tate posted:
ChrisSU posted:
..
 

A NAS is really the ideal partner to a streamer, with both devices connected to your network, where they find each other. You wouldn't connect a NAS to a laptop, just use either its internal drive or a USB drive. These are the two distinct ways to build a system that I was referring to earlier. If you stick to using a DAC as you are now, it's possible to connect it to a dedicated computer optimised for audio, rather than using a general purpose PC. A Mac Mini is a popular choice for this, with a bit of software called Audirvana on it to optimise the audio.

Thanks for the clarity Chris. 

Can I now assume that a Naim streamer with a Qnap or whatever NAS drive is a natural progression from the Mac Mini & software solution that you describe above.

No, they are two different approaches. The ‘natural progression’ might be a Melco store-player, or an Innuos Zenith, at least in terms of simplicity, all direct into a  DAC, which is upgradeale seperately.

(I now use my Mac Mini/Audirvana into Chird Dave,)

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Innocent Bystander posted:
Stephen Tate posted:
ChrisSU posted:
..
 

A NAS is really the ideal partner to a streamer, with both devices connected to your network, where they find each other. You wouldn't connect a NAS to a laptop, just use either its internal drive or a USB drive. These are the two distinct ways to build a system that I was referring to earlier. If you stick to using a DAC as you are now, it's possible to connect it to a dedicated computer optimised for audio, rather than using a general purpose PC. A Mac Mini is a popular choice for this, with a bit of software called Audirvana on it to optimise the audio.

Thanks for the clarity Chris. 

Can I now assume that a Naim streamer with a Qnap or whatever NAS drive is a natural progression from the Mac Mini & software solution that you describe above.

No, they are two different approaches.

Ok, two different approaches but still trying to achieve the same result?

I may need to go back through and re-read some replies.

*ah, I see you have edited your post while I was replying, I should really be patient wait for the 'fifteen minute window' 

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Innocent Bystander

Are you now reconsidering budget, or are you still bound to avlimit around £1k?

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Innocent Bystander posted:

Are you now reconsidering budget, or are you still bound to avlimit around £1k?

Yes, i'm now starting to think that maybe I can up the budget, I have now realized that £1K is maybe not enough. I could at a push and it really is a push and stretch to £1,500/2,000 but this really is me sticking my neck out.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Innocent Bystander
Stephen Tate posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:
Stephen Tate posted:

Yes, this does seen to be the kind of solution I have in mind until I can afford something better. You have now got me thinking about thinking about a V1 too!

I'm sure I have read on here that a NAS device connected to laptop is better sounding than using a laptop via the USB DAC. I do like the sound of getting rid of the USB cable connection.

If you consider DAC, also consider Chord Hugo, or Mojo which is significantly cheaper.

Nothing wrong with a usb DAC - the problem is RF from the computer. You need good RF isolation, unless the DAC is exemplary in that respect. Provided the Renderer is bit-perfect, and the DAC is asynchronous (generating irs own ‘clock’), then I believe that RF is  the biggest cause of differences with different rendering solutions. When I used a Mac Mini as store, running Audirvana as its rendering program, into a Hugo DAC I found an isolator called Gustard U12 to be very effective in blocking the RF (Hugo has no RF isolation of its own, but otherwise is an excellent DAC for the money).

Got you IB. 

I take it you have now progressed onto now a Naim solution ?

I'm warming to the idea of a Mac Mini.

Thanks.

I started with Naim streamer, tried adding an external power supply and found it disappointing, so swapped it for a Hugo DAC, keeping ND5XS as renderer and NAS. Then Mac Minni as a NAS, then added Audirvana and sold ND5XS, but needed to add Gustard isolator. Later swapped Hugo for Dave, and no longer need Gustard. 

I am not wedded to Audirvana, finding its library handling frustrating with my poor metadata, so one day will change the renderer when something better catches my fancy, but Audirvana’s sound quality is so good that I put up with its irritations for now - it may end up waiting till Mac Mini reaches end of life, even if not for many years yet. On the other hand it is tempting to look into the micro/ultraRendu sometime... who knows? 

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Tony2011

I have been following this thread, which has been very  passionate and immensely informative, with great interest. That has finally given me the confidence to take the plunge and I have just ordered a Synology DS218+ and a 4TB WD red, arriving tomorrow. It should keep me busy over the weekend transferring all my CD rips from an old PC. I'm really looking  forward to it. Thanks to the OP for posting  and you guys!

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Hungryhalibut posted:
Stephen Tate posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Do I recall that you live near Portsmouth?

Yes HH, I do live in the Portsmouth area.

If you fancy a trip to sunny Emsworth you’d be most welcome. At least you can see a nas and streamer in operation and get a handle on the basics, which should help you make the right decisions going forward, and to see if it’s something you want to get into. 

Noted HH. Thank you ever so much for your kind offer, I may just take you up that.

Thank you.

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Stephen Tate
Tony2011 posted:

I have been following this thread, which has been very  passionate and immensely informative, with great interest. That has finally given me the confidence to take the plunge and I have just ordered a Synology DS218+ and a 4TB WD red, arriving tomorrow. It should keep me busy over the weekend transferring all my CD rips from an old PC. I'm really looking  forward to it. Thanks to the OP for posting  and you guys!

Wow! I wished I had your confidence Tony!  You certainly sound as though you have a plan.

Keep us all posted how you get on 

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Frank Yang
Stephen Tate posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:
Stephen Tate posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Do I recall that you live near Portsmouth?

Yes HH, I do live in the Portsmouth area.

If you fancy a trip to sunny Emsworth you’d be most welcome. At least you can see a nas and streamer in operation and get a handle on the basics, which should help you make the right decisions going forward, and to see if it’s something you want to get into. 

Noted HH. Thank you ever so much for your kind offer, I may just take you up that.

Thank you.

Is there still a marine barrack in Thorney Island? I was in Emsworth / Chichester area many moons ago!

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Tony2011
Stephen Tate posted:
Tony2011 posted:

I have been following this thread, which has been very  passionate and immensely informative, with great interest. That has finally given me the confidence to take the plunge and I have just ordered a Synology DS218+ and a 4TB WD red, arriving tomorrow. It should keep me busy over the weekend transferring all my CD rips from an old PC. I'm really looking  forward to it. Thanks to the OP for posting  and you guys!

Wow! I wished I had your confidence Tony!  You certainly sound as though you have a plan.

Keep us all posted how you get on 

Thank you, Stephen.  I had all my CDs ripped to a an old PC a year ago using dBpoweramp, Bit-perfect in WAV. The hard work has been done and transferring them to the NAS should be comparatively easier. Besides, I find technology fascinating and I am always up for a challenge. 

Posted on: 26 April 2018 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Tony, indeed ripping and streaming is not difficult... i think it’s more about attitude... and yours suggests to me you won’t have many downsides, but a lot of fun and musical enjoyment.