Dipping toes into the NAS (world) with no clue and getting rid of the CD player

I'm ok, thanks for your thoughts. (the Nas might aswell be a piece of Moon rock sat on the shelf )

I would echo what was said above that devices like the Innous range make so much more sense than very expensive streamers.  They can rip and store all your CD's,  stream from all of the major streaming services, play music stored on a USB sick or hard drive and also play all of your downloads and can also be connected to any USB dac.                                    

ChrisSU posted:

Stephen Tate posted:

ChrisSU posted:

I’m sure there is a dealer near you that sells Innuos, so it would be easy to check out. My experience of music storage devices, either off the shelf products like the Core and Innuos Zen, or NAS drives, is that if there is any difference in sound quality at all, it is quite subtle. I was thinking more of the ease of use of a product that does everything from riping to editing, storage and serving music files, without the need to ever fire up a computer or instal a piece of software  

A Zen Mini costs £699. A Naim Core costs £2k and has a smaller set of features. I would go for the Zen. 

Hi Chris,

I have just been looking at the Innuos Zen MK.II although i was looking at the Mini to start with,  very interesting bits of kit indeed...Actually, come to think of it I don't think my dealer had one in the store to show me.

Funny enough my dealer (last week) kept on mentioning and rating a device called a Bluesound NODE 2?  but then still reassured me that the Naim streamers are easily the best sounding.

I take it one would still need a dedicated streamer to pair up with the Innuos and the whole point being that one would eliminate the laptop & NAS in one go?

The Zen devices can be used as a NAS into a streamer. They can also be used straight into a separate DAC, giving you access to your own CD rips, Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, Roon and iRadio without the need for a streamer. This would work with the DAC you already own, which of course you could upgrade, perhaps to a Naim V1, a Chord DAC, or something else. 

Certainly food for Thought. ..Thanks Chris.

Listening right now to Curtis Mayfield - moving on up (extended version)

Stephen Tate posted:

Listening right now to Curtis Mayfield - moving on up (extended version)

great album, difficult to find the lp , from 1970, on mint condition.....enjoy 

Stephen Tate posted:

Hmack posted:

Stephen Tate posted:

At the moment i'm just using Asset's 'free trial' App. I'm assuming that when this free trial is close to it's expiry date I will be sent a reminder with a link asking for a purchase or not?

I have just been playing around with Asset, it seems easy enough to understand and get used to. Now I have made my mind up with the Naim streamer (hurry up Naim ) it would seed obvious to me to just go ahead and purchase the Asset App anyway?

IYou should not have to pay in order to use Asset on your NAS. How did you obtain the Asset software, and where have you installed it? It should be installed on your NAS, and not on your laptop. I use minimserver server (in essence much the same as Asset) which was available as a free piece of software on my Synology NAS along with an alternative Synology server that I don't like quite as much as minimserver. When I got my NAS, I simply chose the installation option for minimserver to get it installed on my NAS & up and running. 

I am pretty sure that Asset will come as a free Installation package option on your QNAP NAS. Perhaps a QNAP/Asset user can confirm this? 

Hi Hmack,

I think it was so I could have a control point on the laptop. Richard (aka Trickie Dickie) of this forum loaded it onto my laptop. I can see that there is an Asset tile on my QNAP interface. Maybe I would have to purchase the Asset App if I was to continue using it on the laptop?

I f so, then I won't bother purchasing it seeing as though it's  already loaded onto the QNAP.

Again, many thanks!

Stephen, you are correct, the Asset Control program that was installed is so you can see your music collection grow, simulating what you will see when you have the Naim application running on a tablet when you have a streamer.  The Asset Control program is free so no need to purchase.

The Asset UPNP Server program is installed on your NAS, this is in trial mode at the moment and will revert to the free version if you don't purchase it.

It will still allow you to play your music, here is the feature comparison from Illustrate's website.  The price is quite trivial to buy so I think it is nice to support the author and Dynamic Browsing is quite cool once you get used to it but it will still be very usable without the premium features.

Huge posted:

Stephen, dealing with that on you own - MUCH RESPECT - that's very hard to do.
I'm sure we can all wish you well with your ongoing coping strategies.

I'm so pleased Nigel has offered to come to your aid, he's a really nice guy, I very much enjoyed meeting him.
I hope that goes a long way to helping you settle.

You are very kind. The trouble is that Stephen and I have met, so he knows the truth. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Huge posted:

Stephen, dealing with that on you own - MUCH RESPECT - that's very hard to do.
I'm sure we can all wish you well with your ongoing coping strategies.

I'm so pleased Nigel has offered to come to your aid, he's a really nice guy, I very much enjoyed meeting him.
I hope that goes a long way to helping you settle.

You are very kind. The trouble is that Stephen and I have met, so he knows the truth. 

Oh well! I suppose it was worth trying to convince him!  

trickydickie posted:

Stephen, you are correct, the Asset Control program that was installed is so you can see your music collection grow, simulating what you will see when you have the Naim application running on a tablet when you have a streamer.  The Asset Control program is free so no need to purchase.

The Asset UPNP Server program is installed on your NAS, this is in trial mode at the moment and will revert to the free version if you don't purchase it.

It will still allow you to play your music, here is the feature comparison from Illustrate's website.  The price is quite trivial to buy so I think it is nice to support the author and Dynamic Browsing is quite cool once you get used to it but it will still be very usable without the premium features.

Feature	Free	Premium Registered
UPnP Server	X	X
Internet Radio		X
Dynamic Playlists		X
Jukebox Random Selection		X
Browse by File & Folder		X
PC Sound Card Streaming (Windows Only)		X
Dynamic Browsing		X
DSD Support		X
Asset Collections		X

Excellent Richard, thank you ever so much for the clarification here.

I will just go ahead and purchase it.

ChrisSU posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Remember too that if you have a Core or a Zen, when you start buying downloads you will still need to download to the computer, adjust the metadata and copy to the storage. So the ease of the Core etc is only really relevant for ripping CDs. Once they are all ripped you don’t need the functionality  

The Zen (unlike the Core) allows you to download directly to it and edit the downloads, no computer required. Given that it has web streaming built in too, I think it is questionable whether you then need a streamer, when you could spend the money on a standalone DAC, potentially giving you better sound quality for your budget. The Naim approach is, of course, a little different, but I think it’s good to keep an open mind on how to build a digital front end. 

Hi Chris,

The more I look at the Zen MKII ( on their website) the more I think it is a rather neat  and complete solution indeed .

Would you consider the Zen (full width) machine to be a better sounding and more convenient solution to a Qnap and Naim streamer?

Strangely to me it does seem a little odd in having all these different boxes and switches with extra cables to cook up (what I would call) a finnicky digital front end?

Do you think I have dropped a bxxxxxk in purchasing the Qnap?

Sorry for the 'on the spot' questions but i'm after your views more than anything. I do realise that I might have to purchase a better DAC if I were to purchase a Innuos Zen (full width).

Thanks

Stephen, I’ve only listened to the Zen Mini, which sounded fine, but in a system I wasn’t familiar with. My gut feeling is that, for your stated budget, you might get the best sound quality by going for the best DAC you can afford, fronted by a Zen Mini. 

I guess you now have some time while you wait for the ND5XS2 to be released, so if I were you, I would try to find the opportunity to listen to a few alternatives to help you make a good choice. 

Of course the REAL difficulty with building a dedicated digital front end these days is the overwhelming options that are available, it's mind boggling. It seems to me that there are no simple answers but obviously one has to choose a path and stick with it. 

ChrisSU posted:

Stephen, I’ve only listened to the Zen Mini, which sounded fine, but in a system I wasn’t familiar with. My gut feeling is that, for your stated budget, you might get the best sound quality by going for the best DAC you can afford, fronted by a Zen Mini. 

I guess you now have some time while you wait for the ND5XS2 to be released, so if I were you, I would try to find the opportunity to listen to a few alternatives to help you make a good choice. 

Yes, I think I will do just that and take it from there. I think I would be a bit silly not to get a handle on what one can achieve with my given budget.

Thanks

ChrisSU posted:

Stephen, I’ve only listened to the Zen Mini, which sounded fine, but in a system I wasn’t familiar with. My gut feeling is that, for your stated budget, you might get the best sound quality by going for the best DAC you can afford, fronted by a Zen Mini. 

I guess you now have some time while you wait for the ND5XS2 to be released, so if I were you, I would try to find the opportunity to listen to a few alternatives to help you make a good choice. 

Chris, you seem quite keen on this approach, which I find a little curious as you use a Naim streamer yourself. I guess a Zen and a used Hugo or similar might be better, but it’s hard to know when the new Naim box won’t appear for some time yet. I believe Audio T sell Innuos so a comparison of that against an ND5XS may be helpful at this point. A lot of it is about how one wants to interact with the system and how easy it is to store and manage the music. When Stephen left my house he was very clear. The Forum is great for bringing alternatives to the table but at some point a decision needs to be made and adhered to. There is no ‘best’ in this. 

Well; I do have a Hi-Line and a Powerline Lite to utilise... I have also purchased the best NAS I can afford and I can't imagine living without a Naim source in the system once the CD player has found a new home. The ND5 XS 2 is almost certainly in the bag me-thinks and I may even look to owning another pair of Naim speakers further on down the line. without realising it, i think I may have just figured out my own destination.

I agree with HH. 

I know very little about the Zen, and although the Zen + Hugo might end up sounding slightly better that the ND5XS2, I am pretty sure it would be more difficult to set up and to get to run completely reliably. My experience was that adding a Hugo to the original ND5XS in place of its internal DAC brought an improvement in sound quality. I haven't heard the ND5XS2 of course, but I would expect the difference between it and the Hugo to be significantly less.

The original ND5XS in my second system was pretty much plug-n-play and more or less 100% reliable (as is the Linn Klimax DS/1 streamer in my main system). By contrast, the microRendu/Hugo I now use in my second system was a bit of a nightmare to get up and running reliably, and still has to be re-booted and massaged into life every few weeks, and gaining access to Tidal was also initially quite tricky. I still haven't bothered to incorporate internet radio stations to this set-up because it's certainly not straightforward to do so.

Stephen, my advice is to try to borrow an ND5XS from your dealer for the time being if you can in order to get up and running, and move to the ND5XS2 when it becomes available. You will be getting a great sounding device that is pretty much plug-n-play (particularly if you have someone like HH to give you a hand if you run into difficulties). You will also have very easy access to internet radio (Naim's implementation of internet radio is the best I have come across) and integrated & very straightforward access to streaming services such as Spotify, Tidal and Qobuz.

I suppose it's possible that a Zen/Hugo setup might sound marginally better than the ND5XS2, but that's by no means certain, I would be surprised if the difference is huge and I am pretty sure the ND5XS2 will sound significantly better than what you currently have. I really think you will probably avoid a great deal of hassle if you stick with your original choice.         

ChrisSU posted:

Stephen, I’ve only listened to the Zen Mini, which sounded fine, but in a system I wasn’t familiar with. My gut feeling is that, for your stated budget, you might get the best sound quality by going for the best DAC you can afford, fronted by a Zen Mini. 

I guess you now have some time while you wait for the ND5XS2 to be released, so if I were you, I would try to find the opportunity to listen to a few alternatives to help you make a good choice. 

Of the various options I think this is the one I would take, giving a choice of DACs, and an easy upgrade path with the DAC if wanted. But having already spent on a NAS, and with a nearby forum member in the form of HH willingly (if that is not presumptious!) to go round and help, it may be a matter of bird in hand... and I am sure the ND5XS-2 will be a great player and easybto use.

Hungryhalibut posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Stephen, I’ve only listened to the Zen Mini, which sounded fine, but in a system I wasn’t familiar with. My gut feeling is that, for your stated budget, you might get the best sound quality by going for the best DAC you can afford, fronted by a Zen Mini. 

I guess you now have some time while you wait for the ND5XS2 to be released, so if I were you, I would try to find the opportunity to listen to a few alternatives to help you make a good choice. 

Chris, you seem quite keen on this approach, which I find a little curious as you use a Naim streamer yourself. I guess a Zen and a used Hugo or similar might be better, but it’s hard to know when the new Naim box won’t appear for some time yet. I believe Audio T sell Innuos so a comparison of that against an ND5XS may be helpful at this point. A lot of it is about how one wants to interact with the system and how easy it is to store and manage the music. When Stephen left my house he was very clear. The Forum is great for bringing alternatives to the table but at some point a decision needs to be made and adhered to. There is no ‘best’ in this. 

To some extent, I admit I am playing devil's advocate here, having gone down the streamer route myself, but having played with a Zen Mini a couple of times, I was quite impressed with it.

There are two reasons why I thought it could be a good option for Stephen to listen to. First, I think it might, with the right DAC, sound better than an ND5. Second, personally, I wouldn't want to make any major HiFi purchase by listening to a single box, and not comparing it to any alternatives.

Hmack posted:

I know very little about the Zen, and although the Zen + Hugo might end up sounding slightly better that the ND5XS2, I am pretty sure it would be more difficult to set up and to get to run completely reliably.

I don't see why it would be harder to set up. It needs no NAS (unless for backup), there is no UPnP server to instal, no additional ripping and editing software required, has its own CD drive, and does not require the use of a computer.

Dear Stephen

I have considered the Innuos Zen Mini, as it does appear as  a rather compelling proposition -- it rips and stores CDs, integrates Tidal and Qobuz, offers internet radio, and can act as Roon Server and Endpoint. So I went to a near-by hifi shop that sells Naim and Innuos -- a shop I wasn't familiar with, since we have only recently moved. 

Technically, this might be wrong, but Innuos is a sort of "posh" Logitech Media Server, as you need a Squeezebox Remote. Innuos doesn't have its on App, but recommends iPeng (iPad/iPhone) or Orange Squeeze (Android); and indeed these two appear to be the most popular Squeezebox Remotes. In the shop, an iPad was used -- so the app of choice was iPeng, which is very well reviewed. Having said this, it needs some time to set-up and learn. The store manager needed to call Innuos twice to get Tidal and Internet Radio working. This made me somewhat uneasy, and made me really appreciate the Naim app... 

Since then, I have bought an Allo DigiOne; and a couple of days ago I have started to experiment with the Squeezelite output -- among others to take advantage of a 3-month Quboz trial. For this, I have familiarized myself with iPeng (on the sofa at home rather than in a hifi shop...); and I have customized the interface in a way I like. After this I can say that iPeng is much better than I initially thought  -- a fairly decent app actually. Having said this, if the Naim app had Quboz (I have a legacy streamer...), I would certainly choose the Naim app over iPeng. Most critically, the Naim app responds more quickly, and I like the straightforward Naim interface. Others might prefer iPeng. Both do the job! However, before going down the Innuos route I would certainly recommend spending significant time with iPeng and/or Orange Squeeze to establish whether their interfaces work for you.

Roon -- well, the R word is everywhere... And it's great that Innuos can work as Roon server. However, when I read up on this I learned that Innuos is somewhat underspec'ed for Roon, offering no more power than a QNAP TS251/451. In fact, my newly purchased TS-451+ with 8GB offers more than Innuos. So I believe Innuos is great for experimenting with Roon (as  experimented with having a Roon Core on my QNAP) but it might not be a long-term solution -- especially for those with larger libraries. 

In your particular case, with a QNAP in place and having mastered dbpoweramp, I cannot really see the great advantage of Innuos. If you are intrigued by having a standalone DAC, I would go down the more effective Allo DigiOne route, which offers the greater flexibility in terms of outputs, including a greater choice of apps. Admittedly, Allo DigiOne takes some time to get familiar with, but it isn't that difficult -- especially with support from the Naim Forum and in fact other fora (e.g. Roon, DietPi, Slimdevices). I am not very IT savy, but managed... For instance, I couldn't make Squeezelite work on the Dietpi (no audio signal my ND5 told me...). I didn't really know why, but had the suspicion that the DietPi was to blame. So I searched for a different Squeezelite player and put it on a separate SD card, and it worked! No great achievement really, but still I felt I had accomplished something when the speakers produced sound...

So going down the non-streamer route, without any doubt, will require some work and additional learning -- if you are up for it, it can be rewarding. If not, you better stick with the Naim streamer solution. I am still sitting on the fence. I enjoy playing around with the Allo DigiOne, but still not quite ready to "ditch" my old ND5, even though I rather fancy the Qutest or Hugo 2 -- which I believe have a DAC that is superior to the DAC inside my ND5...

I hope this was helpful.

T

Timo posted:

Dear Stephen

I have considered the Innuos Zen Mini, as it does appear as  a rather compelling proposition -- it rips and stores CDs, integrates Tidal and Qobuz, offers internet radio, and can act as Roon Server and Endpoint. So I went to a near-by hifi shop that sells Naim and Innuos -- a shop I wasn't familiar with, since we have only recently moved. 

Technically, this might be wrong, but Innuos is a sort of "posh" Logitech Media Server, as you need a Squeezebox Remote. Innuos doesn't have its on App, but recommends iPeng (iPad/iPhone) or Orange Squeeze (Android); and indeed these two appear to be the most popular Squeezebox Remotes. In the shop, an iPad was used -- so the app of choice was iPeng, which is very well reviewed. Having said this, it needs some time to set-up and learn. The store manager needed to call Innuos twice to get Tidal and Internet Radio working. This made me somewhat uneasy, and made me really appreciate the Naim app... 

Since then, I have bought an Allo DigiOne; and a couple of days ago I have started to experiment with the Squeezelite output -- among others to take advantage of a 3-month Quboz trial. For this, I have familiarized myself with iPeng (on the sofa at home rather than in a hifi shop...); and I have customized the interface in a way I like. After this I can say that iPeng is much better than I initially thought  -- a fairly decent app actually. Having said this, if the Naim app had Quboz (I have a legacy streamer...), I would certainly choose the Naim app over iPeng. Most critically, the Naim app responds more quickly, and I like the straightforward Naim interface. Others might prefer iPeng. Both do the job! However, before going down the Innuos route I would certainly recommend spending significant time with iPeng and/or Orange Squeeze to establish whether their interfaces work for you.

Roon -- well, the R word is everywhere... And it's great that Innuos can work as Roon server. However, when I read up on this I learned that Innuos is somewhat underspec'ed for Roon, offering no more power than a QNAP TS251/451. In fact, my newly purchased TS-451+ with 8GB offers more than Innuos. So I believe Innuos is great for experimenting with Roon (as  experimented with having a Roon Core on my QNAP) but it might not be a long-term solution -- especially for those with larger libraries. 

In your particular case, with a QNAP in place and having mastered dbpoweramp, I cannot really see the great advantage of Innuos. If you are intrigued by having a standalone DAC, I would go down the more effective Allo DigiOne route, which offers the greater flexibility in terms of outputs, including a greater choice of apps. Admittedly, Allo DigiOne takes some time to get familiar with, but it isn't that difficult -- especially with support from the Naim Forum and in fact other fora (e.g. Roon, DietPi, Slimdevices). I am not very IT savy, but managed... For instance, I couldn't make Squeezelite work on the Dietpi (no audio signal my ND5 told me...). I didn't really know why, but had the suspicion that the DietPi was to blame. So I searched for a different Squeezelite player and put it on a separate SD card, and it worked! No great achievement really, but still I felt I had accomplished something when the speakers produced sound...

So going down the non-streamer route, without any doubt, will require some work and additional learning -- if you are up for it, it can be rewarding. If not, you better stick with the Naim streamer solution. I am still sitting on the fence. I enjoy playing around with the Allo DigiOne, but still not quite ready to "ditch" my old ND5, even though I rather fancy the Qutest or Hugo 2 -- which I believe have a DAC that is superior to the DAC inside my ND5...

I hope this was helpful.

T

Very helpful indeed Timo.

Thank you for sharing your experience and your thoughts.

I don't think I have much of a stomach these days to be faffing around and learning to become all technical savvy, years ago yes, but not now, I just don't have the time or patience.  I do think (in my situation) that the Naim streamer is the way to go. I have no reason to move away from Naim, I have used their kit for over twenty years now, I have faith in them to produce exemplary products for us music lovers and i'm sure their ND5 XS 2 will far exceed my expectations.

I was and still am made up with Nigel's system in that when he showed me how a Naim streaming system can be setup, configured with a NAS, sound really good and be all controlled from an ipad running the Naim App. Obviously, getting there is a bit tricky for some to set up but once setup it just works and is easy to operate. Just what I want, nothing more, nothing less really.

Oh, and maybe a fine pair of Allae speakers once my funds have recouped...

*Sigh*

An ND5XS2 — and maybe an XS2 in the future? That should be a lovely combo. I think the XS2 is a worthwhile step up — probably an even greater difference between the two with the ND5XS2 (compared to the ND5XS I used when demo’ing — with ProAc Tablette Anniversary). I didn’t want to buy the XS2 — didn’t want to spend the extra money; wasn’t really bitten by the hifi bug at that time. Just wanted a decent system to enjoy for many years to come... But, listening to Beethoven’s Moonlight sonata, it only took a few keystrokes and I had to have the XS2. Luckily the wife agreed — she plays the piano... Puuh... 

Thanks Timo.

Funnily enough, I was checking out a XS2 amplifier yesterday on a Audio t website. I reckon I could stretch to a XS2 in a year or so, maybe an ex demo one if i'm lucky.

Like you say, that and a ND5 XS 2 streamer should be a lovely combo.

Absolutely — I bought mine as ex-demo (about 18 months old), in mint condition. I couldn’t tell the difference between new and ex-demo, but saved a lot of money. Naim is built to last, and offers great service. Little risk when buying ex-demo or used from dealer. I am a bit reluctant to buy a big item like Naim on ebay without having it seen — maybe I am still a dinosaur... 

Hi folks,

What about a Chord Qutest DAC?

I'm sitting here wandering whether I should pop to my local dealer and get a Qutest on home trial and swap out the Arcam irDAC just to hear if there is an improvement just by changing the DAC as is?

Will I still need the JitterBug?

Mmm...

Or a DAC V1?

I'm sat here staring at an idol (brand new) NAS with binoculars in hand, looking deep into the horizon waiting for this ND5 XS2 to land and hit the streets - nothing thus far, not even on the radar screen yet.