Dipping toes into the NAS (world) with no clue and getting rid of the CD player

Ok, I've purchased dBpoweramp and starting ripping CDs into my laptop. Is this ok to do at this time?

They are being ripped in FLAC (secure). Is WAV better?

I have no clue with this stuff, sorry.

Stephen Tate posted:

Ok, I've purchased dBpoweramp and starting ripping CDs into my laptop. Is this ok to do at this time?

They are being ripped in FLAC (secure). Is WAV better?

I have no clue with this stuff, sorry.

I rip all mine to flac at the standard level 5 compression, and then transcode to WAV using Asset. 

I’d sugggest that you consider at this stage how you want to organise and tag your music. The first is the folder structure on the PC or nas. The simplest way, which I use, is to have a folder for each artist, with the albums sitting beneath. As to the metadata (the tags) it’s about how you want to find your music in the Naim app, should  you get a Naim streamer. I’ve standardised on 10 or so genres - jazz, jazz vocal, chamber music, classical, classical vocal and so on. So if I want some jazz and want to browse the albums, I just choose jazz. It works really well for me. Whatever you choose, get it right from the start and you’ll find things much easier. Tidy metadata is happy metadata. 

Yes its OK,  good idea to learn all about dBpoweramp & then when you do get the NAS & streamer,  its more an auto pilot process.

FLAC or WAV is a choice thats more dependant on what NAS & media server (UPnP) software you decide on.   FLAC on its dBp default compression setting uses aprx 40-50% less disc space,  most users then transcode the FLAC stream (thats a server software function in the NAS) & the NAS then outputs a WAV stream.      WAV cannot be compressed & therefore uses more disc space.

I can hear that WAV sounds better than FLAC (marginally) on my system,   but with transcoded FLAC to WAV I don't hear anything that I can say for sure is different.    I've always used WAV because in the past my media server had transcoding issues.

Stephen, like many others on here I have also been through various setups of the streaming solutions and have happily settled on the Naim Atom with a QNAP NAS and Roon software, the benefits of roon is that it handles all the metadata for you and provides the best interface currently.

The Naim Atom also means you don't need a power amp or DAC, nice and simple. yes the Atom will cost around £1600 used but it is great.

Do a few first, then look at the metadata (a few, to get the feel in case there are differences in the way some appear). Check for key info such artist name & album. You’re looking mainly for ones with something important missing, or the wrong way round (do you want Bowie, David or David Bowie?), or occasionally even something simply wrong. More tricky with classical where you may be  more likely to want to correctly identify composer, conductor etc. 

Others on the forum can probably help more with guidance here, especially if they have experience with a wider range of library software, because some have different ways of sorting things: as at this stage you don’t know what one you’ll be using, and in any case you may change some time, then it is worth this bit of care.

There was a thread specifically talking about metadata only a month or two ago, which may be worth searching for.

This may be making it sound daunting - but in practice many albums will probably be fine, needing no more than a quick glance, and, once you’re used to it, checking and amending if necessary shouldn’t take long at all if done as part of the process, say immediately after ripping or downloading, as you move it to the desired filing location.

Thank you very much MIKE-B for your kind reply.

I guess i'm now going to be busy ripping lots of CDs while I decide on which road to take regarding a NAS, streamer and so forth...

How will a ND5 XS2 fit in the market? - I know this will blow my budget but surely Naim are releasing this unit for a very good reason?

IB, mentioned earlier in the thread that they were disappointed with the Naim/PSU route and decided to go with a Mac Mini and Chord dac instead. I'm not sure I quite understand why here as I thought that Naim are all about top quality sound. I don't want to add on PSU boxes, I much prefer the discreet way of doing things these days, this is one of the main reasons i'm sticking with the Nait 5si.

* oops, it seems there are many replies while i'm typing, sorry. 

Thanks very much everyone!

Getting your CDs ripped now is a good idea, as it takes a bit of time to do it, and to get the metadata organised in a way that suits you. Don’t worry too much about FLAC vs WAV, as you can always convert later if you change your mind. 

The ND5XS is the obvious option to look at. The new version does not have the external PSU option of its predecessor, which is probably one of the reasons why it is a bit cheaper. Having said that, it may mean that there are good deals to be had in the old model. 

ChrisSU posted:The ND5XS is the obvious option to look at. The new version does not have the external PSU option of its predecessor, which is probably one of the reasons why it is a bit cheaper. Having said that, it may mean that there are good deals to be had in the old model. 

Wow!

This is maybe music to my ears, thanks Chis!

All I have to do now is convince myself and find the extra funds, especially as I've already doubled my budget.

Stephen Tate posted:

Ok, I've purchased dBpoweramp and starting ripping CDs into my laptop. Is this ok to do at this time?

They are being ripped in FLAC (secure). Is WAV better?

I have no clue with this stuff, sorry.

As others have said, this is fine; do a few to get a feel for it and don't be afraid to delete and try again; they're only files on your computer that you can recreate at any time.

At this stage the slowest part of the job is ripping CDs so getting on with it is a good use of available time. As mentioned previously, look for the free MP3Tag tag (metadata) editor. It's v useful for tidying up little errors that you might miss when ripping, and it's very quick. It's flexible too, allowing updates to single files or all that are selected. You can also change the album art image with it if you're not satisfied with whatever DBPoweramp dropped in. DBPoweramp and MP3Tag are pretty much all you need to convert CDs to a well-organised files on your NAS or PC.

Stephen Tate posted:

 

IB, mentioned earlier in the thread that they were disappointed with the Naim/PSU route and decided to go with a Mac Mini and Chord dac instead. I'm not sure I quite understand why here as I thought that Naim are all about top quality sound. I don't want to add on PSU boxes, I much prefer the discreet way of doing things these days, this is one of the main reasons i'm sticking with the Nait 5si.

!

Naim does not have a monopoly on high quality sound - and as for ‘top quality’, by Naim’s own admission,  models below their top streamer can’t be top! (Their top is currently NDS, but ND555 is due for release soon - at £27k including the obligatory first power supply plus optional second one.) ND5XS on the other hand is their bottom-of-the-range streamer: though as I suggested in an earlier post, not a bad device - but clearly can be imptoved upon. Naim has a particular focus on PRaT, but that is not the be-all and end-all of music reproduction, and it doesn’t mean other manufacturers don’t also achieve designs that also perform well in those terms.

With ND5XS, I just found that adding the XP5XS power supply, which cost me something like £1600  ex dem., only made a subtle difference. Instead, using the Chord Hugo as an external DAC (at something like £1200 new) made a significant difference, the sound becoming more natural. Many people describe the Hugo’s character as more analog-like. If you search the forum you’ll find a lot about it - indeed, I gained the impression that the majority of  people who have compared Hugo with a Naim DAC have preferred Hugo - though certainly not all. 

Of course, different people have different preferences for how music should sound. Some like lots of bass, some can’t stand bass. Some like the rhthmic aspects of the sound emphasised to get them dancing, other people like as neutral as possible, with nothing emphasised. As equipment, certainly equipment that is affordable (for most), is not perfect, you choose that which with its balance of imperfections sounds best to you within your budget (though also having regard for future steps if you are upgrade-minded). And in the case of some equipment the differences can be very significant: Speakers are the primary example of this, where even when you get well into five figure prices every model sounds distincly different from every other one, sometimes really like chalk and cheese. DACs are another area where there is quite a difference in sound, because it involves a lot of processing, and it is an area where manufacturers are still learning and developing as opposed to refining. 

The moral of this is once you have narrowed down some options, you really do want to get to hear them (preferably played through your own amp and speakers, unless you plan to change them in the near future)

Stephen Tate posted:

ChrisSU posted:The ND5XS is the obvious option to look at. The new version does not have the external PSU option of its predecessor, which is probably one of the reasons why it is a bit cheaper. Having said that, it may mean that there are good deals to be had in the old model. 

Wow!

This is maybe music to my ears, thanks Chis!

All I have to do now is convince myself and find the extra funds, especially as I've already doubled my budget.

At this stage, I would suggest getting to a dealer if you can, unless you have already decided that you want to go down the streaming route. It would be interesting to see how the ND5XS + NAS compared to a V1 with either an Innuos Zen Mini or a PC/Mac, for example. 

That’s why I’ve suggested Steven pops round - to get an idea of whether a Naim Streamer is what he actually wants, and to ask the questions that may be considered too dopey to ask a dealer, but which in fact are essential in order to make the right decision. 

Hi,

I have done some ripping today for the first time using dBpoweramp onto my 5 year old HP all rounder 1TB laptop. I am still a little confused with all the metadata stuff but i'm sure I will find my way around eventually. Anyway, I have been playing back some ripped CDs via the laptop [USB] and out of my headphones (Grado SR325E) from the NAIT and it does sound quite good. However, I did a quick cross reference check with some of my very well known tracks through the 5si CD player. The CD player is better, it's richer, deeper and more bouncy sounding although not quite as detailed? I take it this is because of the better PSU and Hi-Line cable from the CD player instead of the cheaper innards of the laptop, USB connection and the fact it's laptop and not a dedicated music player. Still...i'm quite impressed nevertheless, considering i'm still feeling my way around.

I read on another thread that the CDX2 is ceasing production because of low mech yields - damn, I never could stretch to one of those even after all the years of hankering after one! 

Hi guys,

Is there a certain make or model of NAS drive I should be looking at that's best suited for audio? I have about 1000 CDs all in. I take it i'm ok just filling my laptop for now and then I can then just transfer all the files over to the NAS once i've purchased one.

Many thanks 

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi guys,

Is there a certain make or model of NAS drive I should be looking at that's best suited for audio? I have about 1000 CDs all in. I take it i'm ok just filling my laptop for now and then I can then just transfer all the files over to the NAS once i've purchased one.

Many thanks 

qnap hs251 for example 

The Qnap TS 253A is very good. Get two WD Red drives. 3TB seems a sensible size, with future proofing. Qnap will run Asset, unlike Synology. Asset is a bit easier to use than MinimServer. 

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi guys,

Is there a certain make or model of NAS drive I should be looking at that's best suited for audio? I have about 1000 CDs all in. I take it i'm ok just filling my laptop for now and then I can then just transfer all the files over to the NAS once i've purchased one.

Many thanks 

The usual recommendations are a QNAP NAS with Asset, or a Synology with Minimserver. Personally, I can see no reason to have more than one drive in it, but others use two or more. Remember that you will want a backup - a regular USB drive would be fine for this, although I prefer to use a second NAS. Using your laptop to store them will be fine for now.

Hi Stephen,,   I use Synology, it has a very easy & customer friendly install process & is easy to set up & install the many preloaded task packages,  90% of which you don't need to actually to install if its used just for audio.  Its downside is that it does not take 3rd media server software other than Minimserver. 

The other is QNAP,  not as easy to set up as Synology,  but not at all difficult.  QNAP has a choice of server software,  Minimserver & Asset (my preferred choice but its a pain to install on my Synology & they don't support it)       I think if you did a survey off all forum NAS users,  most would own up to having a QNAP. 

The spec doesn't need to be anything special for audio use,  512MB memory (or more) & with dual core CPU is more than enough.  More & bigger is only needed for 4K & HD video.      

Most folks have a 2-bay & set up the discs in RAID-1 - this is mirror imaging the discs,  so if one fails the other retains the data.    A one bay will do the job very well but a back up (although still needed with a 2-bay) becomes even more than most important,  although your stored CD's are also a backup. 

For 1000 CD's I would go for 2TB disc space,  but if you think about future downloads & more rips maybe a good idea to go for more TB while you are buying,  3TB or 4TB.    I rec going for WD Red HDD's,  most everyone on the forum uses them,  but the standard WD Red's  not the Pro version (over spec for audio & AV)  

I’d recommend Synology with two identical drives. I had one of my drives fail (it was 7 years old) and because I had two drives, it just warned me and carried on working without any loss. Synology have a brilliant, proprietary way of storing your data across two drives which meant I could just bang in any new drive (the same size or larger) and it mirrored my data on the new drive over a few hours. Good job, because the other drive also failed a couple of weeks later and I just replaced it again. No hassle finding backups or, worse, realising that my backups weren’t actually useful (surprisingly common).

Firstly, I would just like to thank each & everyone of you here for your fantastic advice & guidance, this forum is certainly a force to be reckoned with and I cannot thank you enough, really I can't, thank you

I certainly have a lot to ponder on and you guys have given me plenty of food for thought that's for sure...I reckon in all likely hood I will end up with a Naim solution albeit if funds allow. It will take a little  more time going the Naim route but I think it will be worth it. In the meantime, i'm just going to carry on ripping music at this moment onto my laptop and do my research based on all your recommendations you have given me so far.

I'm going to order a NAS device in the very near future either way and get the ball rolling. This does feel like it's my next move to do even though I don't already own a dedicated streamer just yet. I may too take up HH's very kind offer at the same time so I can really be certain i'm making the right choices regarding the Naim route and I suspect HH's system will sound absolutely awesome and this may prompt another itch no doubt. 

I will then visit my nearest & dearest retailer as by then I won't feel so lost or bewildered with computer audio and will be more able to ask the more relevant questions.

Please feel free to carry on this thread and again thank you all ever so much for your input, you have been brilliant and have really opened my eyes up with all your suggestions. Thank you.

As Arnold Schwarzzenegger once said - "i'll be back".

Hi all,

I have noticed when playing back some of my rips that there can be the odd - packet error? - like if a CD player has been slightly jolted. Is it possible that because i'm surfing the internet at the same time It is having a negative effect on the odd rip? 

Should I leave the laptop well alone(close all apps & windows) while it's ripping?

I don't know what is causing it but i'm only guessing this maybe the case...?

Thank you for any further advice/guidance

Steve

Hi Steve,

If these recur / are repeatable at the same point every time (?) then its def something in the rip.  But more likely a reading error during the rip than something caused by extraneous processes running.  Depending on what program it was you used to rip, it may be able to produce a rip report that shows whether any errors were encountered.

If there were reading errors you could try a re-rip, preferably on a different optical drive, and also after carefully washing the disc in soap & water, and drying it with a smooth and lint free cloth. Crazy as this sounds, it helped with dozens of "problem" discs during my epic rip project.....

K

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi all,

I have noticed when playing back some of my rips that there can be the odd - packet error? - like if a CD player has been slightly jolted. Is it possible that because i'm surfing the internet at the same time It is having a negative effect on the odd rip? 

Should I leave the laptop well alone(close all apps & windows) while it's ripping?

I don't know what is causing it but i'm only guessing this maybe the case...?

Thank you for any further advice/guidance

Steve

Surfing the internet will have in a correctly setup home network have no effect on UPnP playback. If you are streaming via Wifi, and you have a low performance basic consumer Wifi setup, then if someone is say watching a YouTube or similar on the same Wifi SSID, you may see some buffering.

With UPnP there is no real thing as occasional packet loss blips, as a reliable transport protocol, TCP, is used.... if there is a loss of data then the data is resent.. the affects are increased latency ... not really a problem with UPnP, or if more extreme a stop, pause then restart, or if really bad, the socket is cleared and playback will stop and have to be restarted manually. However the data rates we use for  audio are really trivial for a typical wired home consumer network, even at 192/24.

My guess it that if it’s not the low grade Wifi as described above, then I’d look at your NAS, media server.

if the issue occurs when ripping itself, and you are browsing on the ripping computer, then it’s most likely a driver/performance issue on your ripping computer... best leave it well alone when ripping, and get your ripping software to validate rips... you might want to look at an alternate ripping solution.

Steve, as I understand it, you have not yet purchased a NAS, and are storing rips on your PC? Presumably you are playing via some sort of playback software on the PC, such as iTunes, VLC or similar?

First, I would check if the error always occurs at the same point, suggesting a faulty rip. What DBpoweramp should be doing is checking against an online database to ensure that the rip is perfect, and you should be able to see an error report if it was unable to give you a ‘bit perfect’ rip. 

Alternatively, perhaps the playback software (or hardware) is causing dropouts. 

Ok, thanks guys.

I'm not using a NAS (drive) as of yet, only ripping my CDs directly  onto my laptop using dBpoweramp at level 5 (recommended) setting.

It's definitely happening in the 'rip' I think - the error reports after the rip are showing a clean bill of health. It does not happen in Compact Disc play back.

It's only a slight niggle really as it's only once in a whole album - a bit like a quick blip from a CD player that one experiences every now & then.

I hope to have a NAS very soon - does anyone here think that a 'fanless' one will be better?

Many thanks