Dipping toes into the NAS (world) with no clue and getting rid of the CD player

hungryhalibut posted:

No way!! I’m not being videoed by anyone. 

or voice recorded?   or Stephen will have to take some notes.....    

Stephen, I would suggest that when HH visits you, you take notes and save some screenshots of the key stages as a reminder. Later you can then replicate what HH has shown you and use the screenshots as a guide. It is so easy to 'see' when someone else shows you but the second they have gone you can easily get lost again unless you have some record of things.

I hope you make it Stephen and start to enjoy streaming. Once you have cracked it, streaming the most convenient of ways to store, browse and listen to music. Just need to set things up first.

What a gent HH is to help you out. Hats off to you Nigel.

Hang on a minute here guys, let's not get too carried away here, I don't even have the streamer yet and I have managed to get the laptop & NAS back to some sort of normality. I too think that it is so kind for HH's offer to visit and help set me up. One thing at a time. I am now getting used to using the NetBac replicator app that Fatcat suggested using earlier in this thread. It doesn't seem too difficult to understand so I am managing to get by using it at this moment.

Thanks all

No rush Stephen, take your time to learn the kit and software as you acquire it. As has been suggested you may indeed wait for the new Naim streamer to arrive before deciding if/how to enter the world of streaming.

Good luck my friend.

A suggestion for your first album to stream below

Mmm...I still keep looking at the Innuos Zen STD MK2 (online). 

I don't even bother switching my Qnap on now, I just can't be bothered with it. I just have it sitting there gathering dust. My momentum seems to have gone, I'm hoping my enthusiasm for it will return...

I haven't even peeled off the packing tape from the facia of the Qnap that covers it's buttons and USB socket.

Stephen, you won't see or should I say hear the benefits of all of your frustration and hard work until you get your Streamer then it will all come together.

Like yourself I struggled with the PC and NAS side of things but with help from ex work collegues my local PC shop  and my local Naim dealer in particular I got there in the end.

When my dealer installed my new system just over three years ago he installed dBpoweramp  ripping directly into my NAS with a external drive attached to carry out the back ups automatically this I found was the easiest set up for me.

Hope you get it sorted.

Stephen Tate posted:

Mmm...I still keep looking at the Innuos Zen STD MK2 (online). 

I don't even bother switching my Qnap on now, I just can't be bothered with it. I just have it sitting there gathering dust. My momentum seems to have gone, I'm hoping my enthusiasm for it will return...

I haven't even peeled off the packing tape from the facia of the Qnap that covers it's buttons and USB socket.

Hang in there Stephen! You will eventually manage the QNAP — have Hungrihalibut over for a nice meal, and on the side he will quickly teach you how to manage the QNAP. Having somebody with you in front of the screen will make things so much easier! And then you are ready for the ND5XS2.  

And any left-over monies you spend on Naim Allae — rather than Innuos. 

P.S. If Naim doesn’t speed up, we’ll hit the 1000-replies mark before the launch of the ND5XS2... 

Pcd posted:

When my dealer installed my new system just over three years ago he installed dBpoweramp  ripping directly into my NAS with a external drive attached to carry out the back ups automatically this I found was the easiest set up for me.

Hope you get it sorted.

 

 

Wow, that sounds promising Pcd, ripping straight to NAS sounds like a good approach to me. In fact i'm going to try and do just that, see if I can do it. You have just given me an idea, thanks!

Timo posted:

And any left-over monies you spend on Naim Allae — rather than Innuos. 

Those nice Allaes I had spotted not long ago have gone, not surprising really, they were really nice examples.

I have just successfully ripped a CD by - Blind Willie McTell  - Atlanta Strut - directly into the Qnap with no dramas. Blimey...

Halleluja!!!  

time to a cup of tea so.....

Stephen Tate posted:

I have just successfully ripped a CD by - Blind Willie McTell  - Atlanta Strut - directly into the Qnap with no dramas. Blimey...

Time to peel the packing tape off the QNAP, Stephen.

nigelb posted:

Stephen Tate posted:

I have just successfully ripped a CD by - Blind Willie McTell  - Atlanta Strut - directly into the Qnap with no dramas. Blimey...

Time to peel the packing tape off the QNAP, Stephen.

And open a new box of teabags

Hi guys,

I have been listening to my music collection today that I've ripped with (FLAC) using dBpoweramp via into my laptop. I am now replaying my music back using the Windows 10 app that came installed with W10 - Groove Music - from the laptop. My laptop then feeds my Arcam irDAC with a JitterBug and Chord SilverPlus usb cable which then goes on to feed my NAIT5si amp via a pair of Chord VEE3 Cobra RCA > RCA interconnect leads.

I have to say that it all sounds quite enjoyable and bouncy if a little soft and puffy.

Can I expect with the addition of a Naim network player with QNAP to be a significant upgrade to the above?

What do you think in terms of what a Naim streamer does in a performance uplift compared to a laptop using Windows 10?

What I'm trying to say here is that some posters have had Naim streamers in the past and then went on to find other solutions with a positive outcome.? Why?

I'm just curious...

Compared to you current situation, I think a Naim network player would give a notable uplift in SQ.  Using the Groove Music app, you're in lifestyle territory, and sound quality for such a piece of software is not a major consideration, though it will unlikely be offensive.  The software you use to render your audio on a PC can make quite a difference to SQ though, and I believe careful choices and configuration, can narrow the gap between a PC transport and something like a Naim network player, though that is assuming that the DAC in the chain is the same, which in your situation would not make sense.  

Some software available for Windows allows you to bypass the Windows mixer, which effectively up, or down, samples everything to the same standard across all applications regardless of source bit-depth and sample rate.  In theory, if your control panel settings match the bit-depth and sample rate of the source, and the volume control in windows is at max, the signal to the DAC should be bit-perfect, but tests I've done with various software show that not always to be true, because some implement software DSPs and EQ effects etc.  When using quality hi-fi components with a PC, you're much better off leaving the digital signal unmolested, and leave the DSP work to the likes of Naim or whoever.  

In short your PC could sound better than it does right now most likely, but I really couldn't say how close it is to a dedicated network streamer from experience.

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi guys,

I have been listening to my music collection today that I've ripped with (FLAC) using dBpoweramp via into my laptop. I am now replaying my music back using the Windows 10 app that came installed with W10 - Groove Music - from the laptop. My laptop then feeds my Arcam irDAC with a JitterBug and Chord SilverPlus usb cable which then goes on to feed my NAIT5si amp via a pair of Chord VEE3 Cobra RCA > RCA interconnect leads.

I have to say that it all sounds quite enjoyable and bouncy if a little soft and puffy.

Can I expect with the addition of a Naim network player with QNAP to be a significant upgrade to the above?

What do you think in terms of what a Naim streamer does in a performance uplift compared to a laptop using Windows 10?

What I'm trying to say here is that some posters have had Naim streamers in the past and then went on to find other solutions with a positive outcome.? Why?

I'm just curious...

I would say that the single most important component in a digital source, by some distance, is the DAC, and that is where the bulk of your investment should go for the best sound quality. So keeping your current computer based setup and just upgrading the DAC could well be the most cost effective move. That is not to say that the quality of the digital transport (i.e. everything before the DAC) doesn't matter, but you get my drift? Of course, there are other factors, such as ease of use, facilities, looks etc. which may also sway your opinion one way or the other.

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi guys,

I have been listening to my music collection today that I've ripped with (FLAC) using dBpoweramp via into my laptop. I am now replaying my music back using the Windows 10 app that came installed with W10 - Groove Music - from the laptop. My laptop then feeds my Arcam irDAC with a JitterBug and Chord SilverPlus usb cable which then goes on to feed my NAIT5si amp via a pair of Chord VEE3 Cobra RCA > RCA interconnect leads.

I have to say that it all sounds quite enjoyable and bouncy if a little soft and puffy.

Can I expect with the addition of a Naim network player with QNAP to be a significant upgrade to the above?

What do you think in terms of what a Naim streamer does in a performance uplift compared to a laptop using Windows 10?

What I'm trying to say here is that some posters have had Naim streamers in the past and then went on to find other solutions with a positive outcome.? Why?

I'm just curious...

you can probably come to a dealer with your arcam rdac, your laptop, and compare the sound of this combo vs nd5xs/ laptop in upnp mode.  An easy test to do.   I am quite sure the latter will easily win.

French Rooster posted:

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi guys,

I have been listening to my music collection today that I've ripped with (FLAC) using dBpoweramp via into my laptop. I am now replaying my music back using the Windows 10 app that came installed with W10 - Groove Music - from the laptop. My laptop then feeds my Arcam irDAC with a JitterBug and Chord SilverPlus usb cable which then goes on to feed my NAIT5si amp via a pair of Chord VEE3 Cobra RCA > RCA interconnect leads.

I have to say that it all sounds quite enjoyable and bouncy if a little soft and puffy.

Can I expect with the addition of a Naim network player with QNAP to be a significant upgrade to the above?

What do you think in terms of what a Naim streamer does in a performance uplift compared to a laptop using Windows 10?

What I'm trying to say here is that some posters have had Naim streamers in the past and then went on to find other solutions with a positive outcome.? Why?

I'm just curious...

you can probably come to a dealer with your arcam rdac, your laptop, and compare the sound of this combo vs nd5xs/ laptop in upnp mode.  An easy test to do.   I am quite sure the latter will easily win.

Perhaps, but to make it a fair comparison, it would be laptop/ND5XS vs laptop/any £2000 DAC of your choice. 

a fair comparison, yes. But the question was if a naim streamer with qnap can be better vs the actual source of Stephen.   I would say the two answers would give a good indication to Stephen...

As someone who has in the past moved from an ND5XS to a separate renderer/standalone DAC based solution on one of my systems, I believe I can offer some advice and a lengthy boring story of my own experience.

There are a number of factors to consider when looking at options for a 'streaming' system that apply whether the system is designed to stream music from a local NAS or from an external music streaming service such as TIDAL. Some of these factors are pretty obvious and self-explanatory. Others are more difficult to anticipate and evaluate. I should also add that I approached the concept of music streaming as someone with a long background in computing (albeit not specifically network based experience) which gave me a fair degree of confidence that I could eventually manage to get whatever type of solution I chose up-and-running. I also received some invaluable assistance at the time from a number of more experienced members of this forum. As far as I am concerned, the major factors to consider are:

1. Sound quality of the chosen solution - no need to elaborate on this one; 2. Reliability of the chosen solution - once it is set up and running, whichever solution you choose should simply be transparent and continue to work in the background without any intervention or intermittent 'tweaking'; 3. The quality of the 'control app' which one uses on a daily basis to browse and listen to music - In my opinion, the importance of the control app is often underplayed or discarded, but the quality and versatility of the control app (combined with the uPnP server used) in my opinion plays a very important part in respect of user satisfaction. It certainly does in my case.

I started out as a streaming sceptic, but having browsed this forum and others for a while, I decided to give streaming a go. I didn't expect streaming to play anything other than a bit role (pun not really intended) in my second (AV) system, so initially focussed on a relatively cheap streamer from the likes of Pioneer, Cambridge Audio or Marantz as well as the bottom of the range (but much more expensive) options from Naim (ND5XS) and Linn (Majik). I ended up choosing the ND5XS, decided to purchase and install a Synology NAS and dbPoweramp CD ripping software and thought that was the end of it. However, over a period of a few months, I came to appreciate just how much more enjoyable a music playing experience the streamer provided by comparison with the CD player in my main system, and I was absolutely hooked. I purchased a Marantz streamer for use in a vintage bedroom system (the sound quality of the Marantz is pretty good, but the Marantz control app is absolutely woeful by comparison with that of the Naim) and borrowed a Linn Klimax Renew streamer from a friend (who was about to upgrade to a Klimax DSM) to try out in my main system. The Klimax Renew was a revelation to me in respect of both sound quality and convenience, and it took no time at all for me to decide to sell my CD player, purchase the Renew from my friend and move lock stock & barrel to music streaming.

This should have been the end of my story, but of course the upgrade bug then bit as it all too often does. I purchased a 3d party power supply (naughty) for my ND5XS. I considered upgrading my ND5XS to an NDX or Linn Akurate, but was distracted and influenced by the dramatic appearances of A) the Hugo DAC and later B) the microRendu renderer in a number of forum threads & decided to go down this less expensive 'upgrade' route instead. I guess my curiosity was well and truly tweaked by the many dramatic posts of a number of people who had moved to the Hugo in particular. 

So, how do I now feel about my decision?

Well, from a sound quality perspective, my stand-alone Hugo DAC based solution works very well and constitutes what I would consider very good value for money, as no doubt would other stand alone DAC based solutions. I now have a streaming solution in my second system that constitutes good value for money, and comes reasonably close to matching the sound quality of the streamer in my main system. However, as I have indicated in previous posts, there are a number of drawbacks to this approach in my experience and in my opinion:

Whilst the ND5XS/Hugo DAC combination worked very well as an audible upgrade (and allowed me to continue to use the very good - in my opinion - Naim IOS app), I had quite a few set up and configuration issues when I attempted to replace the ND5XS with the microRendu. I eventually overcame most of these, but not before I had almost reached a point of giving up. I still experience problems on this system from time to time that necessitate a re-boot of the mR or some of the software components that run on the mR, and I have not managed to identify a pattern that would indicate why these problems arise from time to time. For me, this is annoying, but as someone with a background of resolving computer based issues (and as someone who almost always builds his own hi-end PCs), it is really no more than an irritation. For someone who does not enjoy working with & tweaking computers it would be much more than that. By contrast, my Linn streamer (now a Klimax DS/1) simply works, as did the ND5XS when I had it.  

I have yet to find a control app for my DAC based solution (I currently use the Lumin app) that I like as much as Linn Kazoo or Naim control apps, and gaining access to Internet radio stations is an absolute pain on this system. This may of course simply come down to personal preference, and others may disagree with my assessment. However, I much prefer playing music on my Linn Klimax DS/1 streamer using the Linn Kazoo control app on my PC/Laptop than I do using my stand alone Hugo DAC with Lumin control app, and not purely because of the better sound quality.  

So Stephen, although some others have argued that standalone DAC based systems can potentially be almost as easy to implement as a streamer/NAS solution, I am still convinced that by far the most straightforward solution, and the one that will provide you with best streaming satisfaction, will be to use a music streamer in conjunction with Asset uPnP on the QNAP NAS you already own. Only you can decide whether this will be a second hand ND5XS, NDX or NAIM 272 or whether you are prepared to wait to audition an NDX5S2. You will end up with something that sounds much better than what you currently use, and which provides a much more enjoyable interface to your music collection to boot. In the future, if you ever feel the need and have the finances to do so, you could easily add a 'better' or new DAC to upgrade your streamer and continue to use the Naim app, or investigate other potential control options such as Roon. However, you may never feel the need, and in my opinion is certainly not something you should be looking at right now. 

Once again, good luck with whichever route you choose to take.

ChrisSU posted:

Perhaps, but to make it a fair comparison, it would be laptop/ND5XS vs laptop/any £2000 DAC of your choice. 

Yes Chris, this is what has spurred my curiosity. When I sat down and listened to some music from my laptop using the Arcam DAC I have to say I was a little surprised in how good it actually sounded, not perfect by any means but not bad either...still enjoyable as it were. It has definitely got me into thinking what a much higher end DAC would bring to the table. Don't get me wrong, when I play the same music back from my CD5si the sound is deeper with a more organic feel to it with better resolution but the laptop/DAC still plays a strong hand here when one considers the price gap between the two and the fact that a laptop is not a dedicated music maker.

I have read in quite a few posts here of members connecting up a separate DAC to their Naim streamers with which they have expressed a very positive outcome in doing so and like you have mentioned on this thread a few times now, the quality of the DAC can bring a huge impact to the final sound.

It will be no hardship for me in taking my laptop/DAC to my dealer just to hear for my self what a better DAC will achieve or though I am quite put off of using my laptop and it's scruffy arrangement to be part of the hi-fi system.

Thanks 

Stephen Tate posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Perhaps, but to make it a fair comparison, it would be laptop/ND5XS vs laptop/any £2000 DAC of your choice. 

Yes Chris, this is what has spurred my curiosity. When I sat down and listened to some music from my laptop using the Arcam DAC I have to say I was a little surprised in how good it actually sounded, not perfect by any means but not bad either...still enjoyable as it were. It has definitely got me into thinking what a much higher end DAC would bring to the table. Don't get me wrong, when I play the same music back from my CD5si the sound is deeper with a more organic feel to it with better resolution but the laptop/DAC still plays a strong hand here when one considers the price gap between the two and the fact that a laptop is not a dedicated music maker.

I have read in quite a few posts here of members connecting up a separate DAC to their Naim streamers with which they have expressed a very positive outcome in doing so and like you have mentioned on this thread a few times now, the quality of the DAC can bring a huge impact to the final sound.

It will be no hardship for me in taking my laptop/DAC to my dealer just to hear for my self what a better DAC will achieve or though I am quite put off of using my laptop and it's scruffy arrangement to be part of the hi-fi system.

Thanks 

 

 

Or, since you are well known to your dealer, take their ND5XS home for a few days... To get an idea of the streamer experience; the ND5XS2 will be basically the same -- just better...  

And if you want to try a better DAC in your laptop set-up, try Chord's Qutest... Personally I am rather intrigued by the Qutest. Sadly, Hugo TT2 is far beyond my reach...