Dipping toes into the NAS (world) with no clue and getting rid of the CD player

I'd take HH up on his kind offer.  He can explain to you how HE setup his QNAP up and show you how it all works!

It's so much simpler if you can see it in action and he is good at making tea.

If you arrive and don't like the look of him it sounds like I'm not too far in the other direction if you travel west.

If I were in your shoes I'd try and stretch the budget ever so slightly and look for a used NDX and add a NAS.  You will be sorted for a long time then.

Richard

Ok guys, thank you ever so much for all your replies. All excellent advice here.

Yes, I do like the idea of streaming and discovering new music at the touch of an ipad , all this sounds very appealing indeed. Also the thought of hiding away all the clutter of CD cases sounds rather elegant too, although rather like John, I do like the hands on approach as well. I think it will just take some time getting used to it as I have now definitely made my mind up (thanks to you guys) to persevere with going for an all out digital front end. 

I was starting to think about re-discovering the vinyl route but a couple of you here have just reminded me why I started this thread in the first place.

To clear a couple of things up:

Top quality sound is what i'm after here for the money i'm spending. This is the main reason I've been with Naim for nearly twenty years, although only at their entry level end of the range. I could never afford their higher end stuff (although i'd love to) because i'ts just way out of my league. I do believe that even their entry level gear is a cut above the competition regardless of their amazing reputation with their high end stuff and I have not yet heard anything else to date that has changed my opinion on that and I do go to the Bristol show most years, as well as visiting my local dealer (just to say hello) on the odd occasion.

So, some things I need to do here then:

Carry on ripping my music to my laptop as this will save time further down the line.

Organize a visit to HH's quarters where I can see at first hand how everything works and to clear up my present confusion. Also to hear HH's magnificent system in the process with which I must say sounds rather exciting, especially as he runs a full fat Naim system.

Organise a visit to my local dealer and find out when they get the ND5 XS2 in so I can arrange a demo shoot out against my CD player. 

Purchase a competent NAS drive that is future & fool proof.

At least I can now start to see a plan coming together!

Thanks guys!

Oh, I forgot to mention - and drink some fine Tea

As we don't have an easy way to multi-quote, permit me to do a manual version of it.  I'm not v high up the Naim tree; Nait 5i amp, CD5si CD player and ND5XS streamer into PMC20.23 floor standers. When it's in the right place and no-one else is in it sounds fantastic. When things settle down a bit with a more secure longer term job situation I plan to move up the Naim tree a few notches, but for now this setup produces a very very good sound.

"Will a Naim ND XS 2 streaming unit make for good money well spent for a top quality sound in my system,  just as a good CD player would?"

To my ears the ND5XS is better than my CD player, esp when fed with good quality streams. To that end I've recently re-ripped my entire CD collection as FLAC files, not MP3. Some claim ripping to WAV is better but the argument is a subjective one; there's no clear cut answer. I believe that you'd find the streamer easily as good as or more likely better than the CD, subject to the source files. In addition to having your CDs available as FLAC files you also get access to a myriad high quality radio streams through the streamer. Radios 2, 3, 4 & 6M sound fantastic, 5L is too but is in mono, if that matters. I don't often venture into the wider world of internet radio but along with Naim's own Radio Paradise that a lot on here seem to like (too dull & worthy for me personally) there are countless hq radio streams at the push of an ipad screen. Look for the high bit-rate streams, 320kps is the best you'll find although the bit rate on its own isn't the sole arbiter of quality. Internet stations also have a habit of coming and going.

"I keep reading that a low cost NAS is good enough and that this can just be operated by a laptop or an I pad, if so, why are Naim releasing these expensive units if it can be done at a much cheaper level?"

Why do Naim sell a premium product that generates a lot more profit to them instead of similar sales to Amazon, Currys, EBuyer etc? Hmmm.. Strokes chin.... A decent quality NAS is just somewhere to put the digital files; it's what happens in the networking and conversion process that matters. 

"I am finding all this tech stuff rather contradictive if I must say so myself. I need answers. I am very soon about to have 2K burning a hole in my pocket and the thought of getting a Rega deck and phono stage is starting to make my senses tingle. Trouble is, I do want to move forward, become more modern and explore this 'so called' digital revolution at the same time. It just seems all a bit patchy? "

Streaming is very easy, it really is as simple as plugging the streamer into your router and prodding the buttons to access internet radio, be that BBC radio or any of the others. Beyond that you can add your NAS, and a streaming service like Tidal which just requires a one-off log-in (and the £19.99 monthly fee to get the hq service) to have access to untold riches via that service. See also Spotify etc.

The alternative is buying a TT then having to buy a whole lot of music again to make good use of it, and personally I have a bee in my bonnet about vinyl prices. The pressing plants have openly admitted that they push prices to find the breaking point for the consumer (Sunday Times a few weeks ago) and so far the consumer seems willing to soak up any increases. I genuinely begrudge being invited to buy Nirvana's Nervermind on vinyl for £23 in HMV when it's on the CD rack opposite at £5.99. I'd rather commit to a fixed 20 quid a month for the massive choice available through Tidal, esp when a browse of the What Are You Listening To thread on here coupled with Tidal's range of music allows instant access to some extraordinary music that I'd otherwise never have stumbled across.

"Will it be worth it in me investing in a NaimND5 XS 2?"

Probably, but the ND5XS is very good, and the old adage still holds true, that if you always wait for the next incarnation you'll always be missing out. The ND5XS is great; the next version will probably be a little bit better. It's your choice.

"Most of my music is on CD but I may be pushed into hunting vinyl all over again if I can't find a way through the confusion."

It's not that confusing. You need to see a system in action in the real world, ideally a home system not a dealer pushing the latest & greatest tech.

"Perhaps it is time that I now pay my dealer a visit."

Indeed. It may well be.

Like I said, you can over-complicate this stuff. I held back originally but it was clear that streaming was becoming as much a valid source as vinyl, cassettes, reel to reel, Elcassette, DAT, CD and SACD have all been at various times in the past. Streaming combines quality with convenience; why wouldn't you?

Chris, you really have hit the nail on the head for me here with your reply, I absolutely concur with everything you say!

Thank you!

Stephen, let me know when you’d like to come round and I’ll get some nice cake. 

No problem Stephen.

The other thing I forgot to mention is the Bluetooth connectivity. It's not the greatest sound in absolute terms but is extremely good, and convenience-wise it's magnificent being able to catch up on so much output with the BBC iPlayer via my phone or iPad, through the good gear. For some reason drilling down through the BBC options on the streamer gives access to just a fraction of what's available via the radio iPlayer, and with that skipping back & forth is possible.

It's another reason to buy the streamer - as above, quality and convenience. In spades.

Stephen, bear in mind that the new streaming platform which the ND5XS 2 will run has some key differences in connectivity and functionality compared to the outgoing range. So once you gave taken HH up on his kind offer, you may want to consider this.

 If you decide that you don’t really need the extra features of the new platform, it could be a good time to get a good deal on an original ND5XS or NDX. On the other hand, if you think you may use web streaming services such as Tidal or Qobuz, you might be better off with a new version. 

ChrisSU posted:

Stephen, bear in mind that the new streaming platform which the ND5XS 2 will run has some key differences in connectivity and functionality compared to the outgoing range. So once you gave taken HH up on his kind offer, you may want to consider this.

 If you decide that you don’t really need the extra features of the new platform, it could be a good time to get a good deal on an original ND5XS or NDX. On the other hand, if you think you may use web streaming services such as Tidal or Qobuz, you might be better off with a new version. 

Hi Chris,

Do you think that Naim will incorporate Qobuz onto their new platform? I rather like using Qobuz now and have gotten rather used to it. I was dubious at first when I first subscribed but they're slowly improving it. I've been subscribing a couple of years now. If the new Naim units do incorporate Qobuz then this will definitely swing it for me, i will then go for their yearly subscription which will allow me unlimited access to all their Hi-Res streaming and downloading of new albums onto the NAS. How exciting! 

You’ll be able to use Qobuz via Chromecast. It won’t be integrated in the way that Tidal is. 

Ah, ok, thanks HH.

No they won't incorporate Qobuz I was told by someone from Naim. The only way to access Qobuz on the new streamers will be through the google thingy. So the new streamers will be a no go for me as a Sublime+ subscriber...

Hi Drikus,

I won't be using Tidal. I was using their Hi Fi streaming service for a while and they were 'double dipping' my account. I tried e-mailing them lots of times and they were not very helpful at all. Three times in a row they double dipped my account, in the end I had to go to my bank and get it all stopped that way and my bank even tried to claw the money back on my behalf. Without any success. So, me and Tidal are finished forever!!

Never again!!

I paid for a yearly Sublime+ subscription using Paypal. If possible, use Paypal. Whenever a problem arises with a transaction you done, you can file a complaint. Done this a few times now and I've always got my money back. 

Drikus posted:

I paid for a yearly Sublime+ subscription using Paypal. If possible, use Paypal. Whenever a problem arises with a transaction you done, you can file a complaint. Done this a few times now and I've always got my money back. 

I always use Paypal whenever possible found them to be very good at resolving any problems encountered plus it is quite easy to go into your Paypal account and cancel any monthly subscriptions if needed.

Drikus posted:

I paid for a yearly Sublime+ subscription using Paypal. If possible, use Paypal. Whenever a problem arises with a transaction you done, you can file a complaint. Done this a few times now and I've always got my money back. 

Hi Drikus,

I just had a monthly direct debit set-up with Tidal (same with Qobuz) as I was not sure and new to streaming at that time and didn't want to commit myself fully until I was sure. Everything was ok at first but then double payments were coming out and no matter what I did I could not get it stopped, through them. Maybe I was being naïve and should of used PayPal. I still use/used the same payment methods with Spotify and Qobuz with no problems whatsoever. In fact, Qobuz customer care for me has been absolutely spot on. I don't use Spotify anymore because of their quality compared with Qobuz although I do admire their catalogue. If Qobuz pulled it's finger out it would be unbeatable IMHO.

Qobuz have been trouble free for me and their catalogue is expanding all the time, even if there interface is a little slow and clunky.

Thanks for the tip regarding PayPal.

Steve

Pcd posted:

Drikus posted:

I paid for a yearly Sublime+ subscription using Paypal. If possible, use Paypal. Whenever a problem arises with a transaction you done, you can file a complaint. Done this a few times now and I've always got my money back. 

 

I always use Paypal whenever possible found them to be very good at resolving any problems encountered plus it is quite easy to go into your Paypal account and cancel any monthly subscriptions if needed.

Totally agree, if paying for things online unless you really trust and familiar with the retailer, then PayPal is probably the safest way to pay.. and definitely would NOT use a debit card. I have used Paypal almost from their beginning for both receiving and sending payment, and always found it effective and reliable with reasonable fees... with clear and easily accesable secure audit trail and history and account management and even loan management.

Simon

You live and learn, well I try to anyway. I'm not the most street wised bloke on the planet, it has to be said.

Thanks guys.

Pev posted:

FWIW I am lucky enough to have a decent spec LP12 based vinyl player and a Uniti Nova. If I had to choose between them the LP12 would be out of the door in a heartbeat.

If you want to listen to a limited selection of music and obsess over nuances of sound then vinyl only would be viable but i prefer to stretch myself and enjoy trying new music - some of which evolves into old favourites. I love my vinyl but it's a luxury not a necessity, unlike streaming.

Setting up streaming is a piece of piss but if you can't get your head around it then get your dealer to set it up in your home. If you are buying new, you pay them to do it for you with their generous margin.

 

Funnily enough having connected my LP12 to my Nova in recent weeks I'm finding I play and enjoy music far more via the LP12.

Perhaps it's because I've always been someone who likes listening to albums through as much as sound quality.

With streaming there's far more tempation to ksip tracks/change to something else, with vinyl I tend to play tha albums through until I need to change sides of course!

I agree the LP12 sounds lovely through the Nova (in spite of apparently being converted to digital and then back again!). If I want to listen to something I have on vinyl that will be my choice, but mostly these days I listen to music I don't have on vinyl. Some of it might be available but I won't pay the stupidly inflated prices and storage would be a pain for a larger collection than my 300 or so.

If I am streaming I nearly always listen to whole albums - the only time I tend to cut an album short is if it has a lot of so called bonus tracks which are usually repeats with a slightly different mix or something that wasn't worth releasing on the original album. I rarely set up playlists or skip tracks basically because I can't be arsed - same as when I played CDs.

Stephen Tate posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Stephen, bear in mind that the new streaming platform which the ND5XS 2 will run has some key differences in connectivity and functionality compared to the outgoing range. So once you gave taken HH up on his kind offer, you may want to consider this.

 If you decide that you don’t really need the extra features of the new platform, it could be a good time to get a good deal on an original ND5XS or NDX. On the other hand, if you think you may use web streaming services such as Tidal or Qobuz, you might be better off with a new version. 

Hi Chris,

Do you think that Naim will incorporate Qobuz onto their new platform? I rather like using Qobuz now and have gotten rather used to it. I was dubious at first when I first subscribed but they're slowly improving it. I've been subscribing a couple of years now. If the new Naim units do incorporate Qobuz then this will definitely swing it for me, i will then go for their yearly subscription which will allow me unlimited access to all their Hi-Res streaming and downloading of new albums onto the NAS. How exciting! 

As others have already pointed out, Chromecast and Airplay built into the new streamers is Naim’s solution to the demand for an ever increasing range of web streaming services, such as Qobuz, Deezer, Apple Music, Soundcloud, BBC iPlayer, etc. etc. 

The problem with this approach is that you are dependent on these providers to design a robust Chromecast implementation, and Qobuz is an example of a company who have not done too well on this front. Hopefully this will improve over time, and I believe many of the initial teething problems have been dealt with. 

When you look at these issues, a NAS full of your own CD rips/downloads starts to look more appealing!

Stephen Tate posted:

Hi Drikus,

I won't be using Tidal. I was using their Hi Fi streaming service for a while and they were 'double dipping' my account. I tried e-mailing them lots of times and they were not very helpful at all. Three times in a row they double dipped my account, in the end I had to go to my bank and get it all stopped that way and my bank even tried to claw the money back on my behalf. Without any success. So, me and Tidal are finished forever!!

Never again!!

Unlucky! I had a very similar experience with Qobuz ????

ChrisSU posted:

As others have already pointed out, Chromecast and Airplay built into the new streamers is Naim’s solution to the demand for an ever increasing range of web streaming services, such as Qobuz, Deezer, Apple Music, Soundcloud, BBC iPlayer, etc. etc. 

The problem with this approach is that you are dependent on these providers to design a robust Chromecast implementation, and Qobuz is an example of a company who have not done too well on this front. Hopefully this will improve over time, and I believe many of the initial teething problems have been dealt with. 

When you look at these issues, a NAS full of your own CD rips/downloads starts to look more appealing!

If using an Android device (or a higher speced Windows PC) to access the service, there's a trick you can use if the app's implementation of Chromecast is suspect (or it doesn't have one, or there's no webpage) and that is to cast the entire screen to the streamer.

If available to you (i.e. not iOS devices or old PCs) this is a very robust way of using Chromecast (and it also does gapless correctly!).

ChrisSU posted:

When you look at these issues, a NAS full of your own CD rips/downloads starts to look more appealing!

Yup!

I cant wait now - come on Naim , please hurry up with the launch of the new ND5 XS2! 

some members are reporting that tidal is sounding very good now  with the 4.6 update.  Perhaps the op will reconcilliate with tidal experience using the ndxs2....