ND555 - have pulled the trigger

Bob - again, big surprise.  Stating the obvious - no @!#& Sherlock, you prefer the 300 over the 250.  Last time I checked, the 300 was a model up from the 250.  It's also twice the price of a 250.  Gosh - are you telling me it might just be a step up from the 250?  Really?

The 300 at double the price of a 250 I certainly hope that it’s better 

very brave enjoy it when finally its delivered  

Bert ..... I know Naim have been working on the ND555 project for quite a long time .... I am sure you will not be dissapointed - I am also sure it has been road tested extensively with the ultra revealing statement ........ we all just can't wait to see how you get on ........... will you be using it with 2 x 555psdr??!!! it probably deserves it!!!

docmark posted:

Bob - again, big surprise.  Stating the obvious - no @!#& Sherlock, you prefer the 300 over the 250.  Last time I checked, the 300 was a model up from the 250.  It's also twice the price of a 250.  Gosh - are you telling me it might just be a step up from the 250?  Really?

i had 250.2 before and now 300dr.  My room is not big (18m2), my speakers are easy to drive : i found the 300dr bigger sounding, with more bass and body, more open soundstage and more refined sound.  But the 250.2 was a bit faster, with a bit better prat and urgency in the music. So if your speakers are not very power hungry and your room not bigger than 20/25 m2,  i would be happy with a nap 250 dr without problem.

Totally agree speaker and room matching are hyper critical ........ the 500 did for me what you say your 300 did - although for me it seemed faster and much more refined......... I notice Paul McGowan ..(PS Audio) talks about his experiments with amplifiers - and the effect of removing the transformer and power supply away from the critical amplifier circuit boards. If you look at the 250 internally - it is a miracle  of planning.

Richieroo posted:

Bert ..... I know Naim have been working on the ND555 project for quite a long time .... I am sure you will not be dissapointed - I am also sure it has been road tested extensively with the ultra revealing statement ........ we all just can't wait to see how you get on ........... will you be using it with 2 x 555psdr??!!! it probably deserves it!!!

It’s probably worth remembering that Naim are tied into Focal speakers and will probably demo at Munich with Focal.

A home demo with YOUR speakers and amplifier will be essential before deciding what to do.

To me those Grand Utopias did not sound great ...... judging from the You Tube clips at various shows..... even on the end statements.... (I know You Tube is not brilliant sonically) .......... but tonal quality was somewhat crystalline...... 

docmark posted:

Harry, that's just stating the obvious. You can't compare a 250DR to a 500DR.  Of course they sound different.  They'd better, given the price difference.  But you can't write the 250DR off as uninteresting and nonmusical, something you couldn't make friends with.  Some of us, I guess, will just have to slum it & try to make peace with our 250DRs while we wonder what the truly privileged listen to.

It's obvious to you and obvious to me. If it was universally obvious to everyone I would not have posted what I posted.Whilst there is a law of diminishing returns at work, the amps do not give you more of the same with an ever decreasing return.  They have completely different presentations. 

What's with the slumming comment? So I don't like something that you like? So what? Grow up.

analogmusic posted:

 it’s been said that B&w are so boring and suck the life out of the music.

I've said it may times also. I couldn't believe how they could sell so many utterly dull sounding speakers.

I had the DM14 back in the late 70s to early 80s and always regretted buying them. I don't know why I did. 

Down the years, a B&W of some sort has usually popped up at audition time and always disappointed. This is where a good dealer come in. Mine knew that Helen and I both disliked the B&W style of presentation and had tried various models with the same negative result. He gently pushed us towards the last generation 803D because we had nothing to lose and he thought it might change our minds. It did. The last 800D generation is to my ears, like nothing B&W have yet made. I haven't heard the new ones.

If they don't appeal to you and/or don't work in your room there are plenty of speakers to choose from. I've always found speakers a time consuming pain to audition. I have since met a speaker (well, two to be pedantic) running in a Linn Akurate (or whatever they're calling it this year) system. We don't feel moved to change the speakers because they work so well in our room. But if we did, we know where we would start. Big outlay though, given that the amps and front end might also get chopped in if we went that way. Just as well we love our present system so much.

It's disappointing that personal choice can give rise to so much snide behaviour. Choice are diversity are good, yes? If you can so easily tread on someone's toes by not doing what they do or not liking what they like or liking what they dislike, it really isn't your problem. Or my problem. Behaviour like that is usually about something else. Whatever ails you is not my fault. 

The last bit is a general observation that just happens to be in my reply to you. I'm not aiming it at you in particular. It applies to a number of threads. Nothing wrong with leg pulling and debate. But there's never an excuse for shitty behaviour.

It’s nothing personal Harry but having lived a 800 series speaker with and auctioned All the latest B&w D3 range I think they’re overpriced and underperforming. Not really a good match with Naim

the impedance curve which they present to a Naim amplifier drops down to 3 ohms and I doubt even a 500 DR can drive an 802 D3

its a very demanding speaker which isn’t even a tonally neutral one. I just find the B&w sound fatiguing and bloated/saturated and frankly ear piercing. The diamond tweeter is hard as nails and doesn’t sound like real music

 Nothing personal here Harry just A technical debate on whether B&w matches with Naim. 

Richieroo posted:

Bert ..... I know Naim have been working on the ND555 project for quite a long time .... I am sure you will not be dissapointed - I am also sure it has been road tested extensively with the ultra revealing statement ........ we all just can't wait to see how you get on ........... will you be using it with 2 x 555psdr??!!! it probably deserves it!!!

I will be using it with a single 555PS DR. I have heard the impact of a 2nd 555PS DR on a NDS at NAIM and it was nothing short of revealing experience through a statement system. The natural tonality of the instruments came much more across than before (especially critical instruments as piano). So I wouldn't as such challenge the value of such an investment. But it's just not first on my priority list.

1. ND555

2. DR'ing my NAP500

3. Potentially replacing my Vodka Ethernet cable replaced by a Chord Music or the 2nd 555PS DR.

While 1 and 2 will happen in due time, 3A/B depend on personal situation. There are more priorities in life...... 

analogmusic posted:

It’s nothing personal Harry but having lived a 800 series speaker with and auctioned All the latest B&w D3 range I think they’re overpriced and underperforming. Not really a good match with Naim

the impedance curve which they present to a Naim amplifier drops down to 3 ohms and I doubt even a 500 DR can drive an 802 D3

its a very demanding speaker which isn’t even a tonally neutral one. I just find the B&w sound fatiguing and bloated/saturated and frankly ear piercing. The diamond tweeter is hard as nails and doesn’t sound like real music

 Nothing personal here Harry just A technical debate on whether B&w matches with Naim. 

 

 

Before I got to the real religion. I also auditioned an Audionet based system with different speaker configurations. And one the configurations was the B&W line up till the end. And I was honestly very dissapointed by the sound. I missed the life and energy of the music while listening to B&W. I never have understood why the are so well established in the press, and I even started to doubt if I am missing some aspects in my hearing. The same is for me the case with the Focal's besides the new Kanta's which I love.  

What a strange turn this thread has taken. There’s Bert, who has ordered an ND555, and comments on that. Then there is an increasing grouchy debate about which amp is better than which, and which speakers people should or shouldn’t like. It’s like two worlds colliding. Weird. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

What a strange turn this thread has taken. There’s Bert, who has ordered an ND555, and comments on that. Then there is an increasing grouchy debate about which amp is better than which, and which speakers people should or shouldn’t like. It’s like two worlds colliding. Weird. 

You are right - as quite often the thread takes a complete different direction.... But it's ok as long as people are passionately contributing....

That’s very true. It will be interesting to read what people make of the new streamers at Munich. As suggested above it seems highly likely that Naim will be using Focal speakers for the demonstration. I’ve heard some Utopia something or other with Naim and thought they were bloody awful - aggressive and unbearably bright, and they didn’t sound like real music at all. Quite how people can assess the Naim streamers with speakers like that I don’t know. Yet others love them, so it’s probably just me. At the end of the day there is no right and wrong, it’s all part of life’s rich pageant. 

Nigel they were bloody awful, it’s a great pity, I hope they use something with a more controlled, coherent sound at Munich. A Sopra No 1 would be better, if they feel they have to use Focal.

Bert Schurink posted:

analogmusic posted:

It’s nothing personal Harry but having lived a 800 series speaker with and auctioned All the latest B&w D3 range I think they’re overpriced and underperforming. Not really a good match with Naim

the impedance curve which they present to a Naim amplifier drops down to 3 ohms and I doubt even a 500 DR can drive an 802 D3

its a very demanding speaker which isn’t even a tonally neutral one. I just find the B&w sound fatiguing and bloated/saturated and frankly ear piercing. The diamond tweeter is hard as nails and doesn’t sound like real music

 Nothing personal here Harry just A technical debate on whether B&w matches with Naim. 

 

 

Before I got to the real religion. I also auditioned an Audionet based system with different speaker configurations. And one the configurations was the B&W line up till the end. And I was honestly very dissapointed by the sound. I missed the life and energy of the music while listening to B&W. I never have understood why the are so well established in the press, and I even started to doubt if I am missing some aspects in my hearing. The same is for me the case with the Focal's besides the new Kanta's which I love.  

B&W a poor match to Naim? Well, I might have thought so at one time, having never heard a pair I liked (apart from the B&W Solids I've got in the bathroom), but then I heard a pair in a fellow forumite and friend's 500/552 system & they sounded pretty fine.

There seems an increasing tendency for people to base their views on limited experiences, usually at hi-fi shows, or indeed by reading others' opinions, on certain hi-fi components.  Revealed by some posters is a lack of confidence and a nagging worry that maybe what they've spent a large sum on might not be the best option after all so they feel they need to keep justifying their choices by denigrating alternatives. It's pretty tedious and unhelpful.

Richieroo posted:

To me those Grand Utopias did not sound great ...... judging from the You Tube clips at various shows..... even on the end statements.... (I know You Tube is not brilliant sonically) .......... but tonal quality was somewhat crystalline...... 

I've long been searching for an adjective to sum up my dislike of Focal speakers, (admittedly only ever listened to at hi-fi shows, so not ideal conditions), but your description of "crystalline" sums it up perfectly for me. 

Bert, one thing is not mentioned about the new NDS: It can show the Adidas logo in colour. I´m not sure if you want that at home though but personally I always love my customers or employers otherwise I quit.

Hmm. Just an original try to shift a bit in the direction of being on topic.

tonym posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

analogmusic posted:

It’s nothing personal Harry but having lived a 800 series speaker with and auctioned All the latest B&w D3 range I think they’re overpriced and underperforming. Not really a good match with Naim

the impedance curve which they present to a Naim amplifier drops down to 3 ohms and I doubt even a 500 DR can drive an 802 D3

its a very demanding speaker which isn’t even a tonally neutral one. I just find the B&w sound fatiguing and bloated/saturated and frankly ear piercing. The diamond tweeter is hard as nails and doesn’t sound like real music

 Nothing personal here Harry just A technical debate on whether B&w matches with Naim. 

 

 

Before I got to the real religion. I also auditioned an Audionet based system with different speaker configurations. And one the configurations was the B&W line up till the end. And I was honestly very dissapointed by the sound. I missed the life and energy of the music while listening to B&W. I never have understood why the are so well established in the press, and I even started to doubt if I am missing some aspects in my hearing. The same is for me the case with the Focal's besides the new Kanta's which I love.  

B&W a poor match to Naim? Well, I might have thought so at one time, having never heard a pair I liked (apart from the B&W Solids I've got in the bathroom), but then I heard a pair in a fellow forumite and friend's 500/552 system & they sounded pretty fine.

There seems an increasing tendency for people to base their views on limited experiences, usually at hi-fi shows, or indeed by reading others' opinions, on certain hi-fi components.  Revealed by some posters is a lack of confidence and a nagging worry that maybe what they've spent a large sum on might not be the best option after all so they feel they need to keep justifying their choices by denigrating alternatives. It's pretty tedious and unhelpful.

I appreciate your view. At the same time I wouldn't see my opinion as just based on show sound etc. I have heard the different B&W's multiple time with different electronic configurations and I was never impressed. I am then purely basing my opinion on the big speakers - as I also myself have a AV based speaker set which fully satisfies me. So I would say the story is different for lower end speakers of B&W they normally present good value for money. And I did also hear a lot of other speakers which gave me a comparison (Verity Audio - my own brand great in my ears, musical not analytical; Wilson Audio - great; Wilson Benesh - great; Sonus Faber - good but depends; Kudos - great; Kef good value for money...........).

But it's good that everybody has his own opinion. Oherwise everybody would buy Naim and we would need to wait years to ge the ND555 delivered :-)

Ardbeg10y posted:

Bert, one thing is not mentioned about the new NDS: It can show the Adidas logo in colour. I´m not sure if you want that at home though but personally I always love my customers or employers otherwise I quit.

Hmm. Just an original try to shift a bit in the direction of being on topic.

:-) I definitely love my company and the brand,.............., but I try to also keep a good balance between work and life........ Perhaps a good idea in case my CEO would like to hear my system :-)

Hungryhalibut posted:

That’s very true. It will be interesting to read what people make of the new streamers at Munich. As suggested above it seems highly likely that Naim will be using Focal speakers for the demonstration. I’ve heard some Utopia something or other with Naim and thought they were bloody awful - aggressive and unbearably bright, and they didn’t sound like real music at all. Quite how people can assess the Naim streamers with speakers like that I don’t know. Yet others love them, so it’s probably just me. At the end of the day there is no right and wrong, it’s all part of life’s rich pageant. 

I am with you in disliking the normal setup o demos with Focal speakers, but I do understand they would need to do it as the companies are connected. A nice demo setup could be to show what the ND555 can do as compared to the NDS and not just hear the ND555 playing. But I guess my wish will not come true. And while they normally have a pretty nice collection of music to listen to, and not the typical "show" music I hope they can avoid the favorite of the demo team Rage Against The Machine - Fistfull of Steel (not that I hate the band, but something new would be great)....If the team wants it raw:

Dream Theater - The Glass Prison (Six Degree of Inner Turbulence)

Pain of Salvation - On a Tuesday ( In th passing light of day)

Hey Harry - a lot of hot air and pretentious dribble coming from you.  Am all grown up here.  Have a look in a mirror.

This has turned into a great thread .......... all thanks to Bert and his ND555 ......... now shall we drop onto cables!!!